Selective abortion.

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dreama said:
I think all babies diserve a chance to live. If your child had cancer you wouldn't just give up and kill it. Even if the doctor said it may die. Because doctor's can be wrong. Same with fetus.

By the way I wouldn't even WANT to be normal. I think normal people must lead very dull lives without any extra challanges in them.

I think that disabled people can have better lives then ordinary people. I've known some very severely disabled kids and they are happy because it takes so little to please them. What I have to achieve with effort of possitive thought. They seem to achieve it naturally. They are blessed. But people just look at their profound disabilities and say they would be better off dead.
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wow.... the train just ends here. You are clearly extremely biased and discriminated. and maybe it takes a little effort to please severely disabled kids because um.... they lack certain higher level of intelligence and cognitive function? If I drop a coin, I'm sure it will greatly humor them. :roll:
 
dreama said:
I think all babies diserve a chance to live. If your child had cancer you wouldn't just give up and kill it. Even if the doctor said it may die. Because doctor's can be wrong. Same with fetus.

By the way I wouldn't even WANT to be normal. I think normal people must lead very dull lives without any extra challanges in them.

I think that disabled people can have better lives then ordinary people. I've known some very severely disabled kids and they are happy because it takes so little to please them. What I have to achieve with effort of possitive thought. They seem to achieve it naturally. They are blessed. But people just look at their profound disabilities and say they would be better off dead.
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You can't compare a living child who contracts a disease to a fetus that is so severely disabled as to be incompatible with life. Can you anti-abortionists please refrain from bring in irrelevent comments and stick to the topic. This one is about the legality of abortion. Your thread on selective abortion is another topic.
 
Jiro said:
wow.... the train just ends here. You are clearly extremely biased and discriminated. and maybe it takes a little effort to please severely disabled kids because um.... they lack certain higher level of intelligence and cognition function? If I drop a coin, I'm sure it will greatly humor them. :roll:
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Yeah....its amazing to me how these people seem to want to project their own opinions on others without any evidence whatsoever that the ones they are projecting their own opinions on would agree with them in any way. It is nothing short of misguided arrogance.
 
Cheri said:
I can discuss my situation here if I wishes to, if you don't like it, put me on ignored. I do have a clue, I've experienced it, and you haven't. If you trust in the system, the lawmakers, the abortionists, that's your business. But, don't tell anyone that their facts aren't straight.
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I'm glad you have the courage to tell us about your experience. You are fully entitled to do so. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through this. It must have been very traumatic for you. But I admire your courage in bringing it up to people who just want to keep their heads in the sand.

Who are who have not experienced this to tell you that what you experienced didn't happen. They just want to be right. Want to win the arguement and don't care how hurtful they are to women who've been through it all. Who've suffered due to a 'woman's choice'.

Just remember that you are well within your rights here. That freedom of speech is still permitted although I think some people might wish it wasn't.
 
dreama said:
I'm glad you have the courage to tell us about your experience. You are fully entitled to do so. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through this. It must have been very traumatic for you. But I admire your courage in bringing it up to people who just want to keep their heads in the sand.

Who are who have not experienced this to tell you that what you experienced didn't happen. They just want to be right. Want to win the arguement and don't care how hurtful they are to women who've been through it all. Who've suffered due to a 'woman's choice'.

Just remember that you are well within your rights here. That freedom of speech is still permitted although I think some people might wish it wasn't.
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Yep, freedom of speech still exists, and I find it odd that you keep invoking U.S. constitutional rights, even though they don't apply to you. But then the isssue of another's abortion decision doesn't apply to you either, and you consistently attempt to involve yourself in that, as well.

Just keep in mind, that when one invokes the right of freedom of speech, and uses it to make public that which is private, one also has to accept the consequences of taking advantage of that freeedom. Be certain that you are willing to do so.
 
Just because a person works with a group of disabled children, doesn't mean they understand them and their conditions. In order to really get an up close and personal view of the day to day care that these children require, you have to be with the child 24/7/365.

Also, it has been referred to repeatedly about mentally disabled children. Having a mentally disabled child is just but one circumstance. Often times, spina bifida does NOT cause mental retardation. It can and does, but not always. That does NOT mean that children with SB suffer any less. In fact, we suffer MORE because we have the understanding of what is happening.
 
dreama said:
I'm glad you have the courage to tell us about your experience. You are fully entitled to do so. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through this. It must have been very traumatic for you. But I admire your courage in bringing it up to people who just want to keep their heads in the sand.

Who are who have not experienced this to tell you that what you experienced didn't happen. They just want to be right. Want to win the arguement and don't care how hurtful they are to women who've been through it all. Who've suffered due to a 'woman's choice'.

Just remember that you are well within your rights here. That freedom of speech is still permitted although I think some people might wish it wasn't.
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Thank-you, You're a sweetheart. :hug: And yes, It was very traumatic for me, it doesn't end either, I'll find myself thinking about that day at the abortion clinic over the period of years. I was forced to have an abortion by my parents when I was at the age of 15/16 years old. But, I'm glad I have two wonderful boys, I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. ;)
 
Cheri said:
Thank-you, You're a sweetheart. :hug: And yes, It was very traumatic for me, it doesn't end either, I'll find myself thinking about that day at the abortion clinic over the period of years. I was forced to have an abortion by my parents when I was at the age of 15/16 years old. But, I'm glad I have two wonderful boys, I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. ;)
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Did you have an abortion when you were 15 and 16, or do you just not remember if you were 15 or 16?
 
dreama said:
I think all babies diserve a chance to live.
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Are you saying that birth defect - Google Bilder deserve a chance to live? Did you know how long they stay alive?

If your child had cancer you wouldn't just give up and kill it. Even if the doctor said it may die. Because doctor's can be wrong. Same with fetus.
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No, it´s not same with fetus because fetus do not have cancer but baby or child.

By the way I wouldn't even WANT to be normal. I think normal people must lead very dull lives without any extra challanges in them.

I think that disabled people can have better lives then ordinary people. I've known some very severely disabled kids and they are happy because it takes so little to please them. What I have to achieve with effort of possitive thought. They seem to achieve it naturally. They are blessed. But people just look at their profound disabilities and say they would be better off dead.
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*speechless* No further comment.
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netrox said:
Now, I know that cats are vicious killers of reptiles, birds and rodents! But I still love cats even though once every two weeks, I had to stop them from mauling mice and birds. And when the poor prey looks really bad (and I mean really bad), I have to kill them quickly to put their misery out. Sigh. I really HATE killing them but I don't regret my decisions at all.
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If the prey is going to die anyway, why are you stopping your cat and killing the prey yourself? Let the cat finish what he is doing. Cats act of killing the prey is a natural instinct , your act of killing the prey depends on a conscious decision. So whats the point of preventing cat from following its nature and doing the killing job for him (cat) ?

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netrox said:
Maybe cheri's experience is making her feel guilty and thinks that supporting a ban on abortion will amend her "sins?"
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No, it's nothing do with "sins"... just because she is a Christian, that's not mean Cheri will have a "God is mad at her and she is gulity for her personal experience" subject. She just saw how abortion had done it when she was in the second term of her pregnancy, she knew how she felt and some women/girls would feel the same thing. It's not matter if it is a religious view or not, really, it's nothing do with "sins".

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KarissaMann05 said:
No, it's nothing do with "sins"... just because she is a Christian, that's not mean Cheri will have a "God is mad at her and she is gulity for her personal experience" subject. She just saw how abortion had done it when she was in the second term of her pregnancy, she knew how she felt and some women/girls would feel the same thing. It's not matter if it is a religious view or not, really, it's nothing do with "sins".

She saw a dead baby instead of saw a dead fetus, because she saw a fetus is more human being than just a parasite thing like pro-abortists claimed. It made me sad that she never know what her firstborn child's gender is because her abortionist didn't want her to know. S/he expected her to think her child as a thing. It is just like what I read some personal and locked entries in somewhere at pro-life communities on online journal links...

That's so depressing... Well, you CAN bring me down if you don't like this post. Take me down now if you want to. :dunno:
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This is very misleading, Karissa. The doctor does not show the product of an abortion to the person receiving the procedure. Nor would most want to see it, becuase it doesn't look like a cute little baby that you have in your mind. It is a bloody conglomeration of tissues once it has been extracted. It is disposed of as medical waste. Especially during a first trimester abortion. A second trimester abortion is legal only to protect the health of the mother or because the fetus is found to have disability incompatible with life. It is not an elective procedure in the same way a first trimester abortion is.
 
jillio said:
This is very misleading, Karissa. The doctor does not show the product of an abortion to the person receiving the procedure. Nor would most want to see it, becuase it doesn't look like a cute little baby that you have in your mind. It is a bloody conglomeration of tissues once it has been extracted. It is disposed of as medical waste.
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I'm not surprise when you come up and sprayed my post.

I let you have it now.
 
Hermes said:
If the prey is going to die anyway, why are you stopping your cat and killing the prey yourself? Let the cat finish what he is doing. Cats act of killing the prey is a natural instinct , your act of killing the prey depends on a conscious decision. So whats the point of preventing cat from following its nature and doing the killing job for him (cat) ?
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Um, of course, if they were hungry but my cats were NOT hungry. They just kill for "sports." They literally torture them painfully for a long time. It's NOT a quick kill. Me, I do a quick kill so the animal does not have to suffer more.

I sincerely apologize that I have a conscious decision to make sure that the killing has to be done quickly.
 
netrox said:
Um, of course, if they were hungry but my cats were NOT hungry. They just kill for "sports." They literally torture them painfully for a long time. It's NOT a quick kill. Me, I do a quick kill so the animal does not have to suffer more.

I sincerely apologize that I have a conscious decision to make sure that the killing has to be done quickly.
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Don't apologize. Your actions were just. Cats like to "play with" their prey sometimes. They don't always kill quickly.

What we're talking about is what each of us considers humane based on our ethics. I find it sad that pro choicers are judged for what they feel is morally right; especially since abortion is legal in this country. At the risk of repeating myself, abortion is legal. Therefore, nobody has the right to tell me what I should or should not do with my pregnancy.
 
netrox said:
Um, of course, if they were hungry but my cats were NOT hungry. They just kill for "sports." They literally torture them painfully for a long time. It's NOT a quick kill. Me, I do a quick kill so the animal does not have to suffer more.

I sincerely apologize that I have a conscious decision to make sure that the killing has to be done quickly.
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You dont need to apologize, I am not judging you. You can kill something already about to die, if you dont want them to suffer any further. Yes cats do that, because they are hunters. Its not always for food. I am just different than you, thats why I asked. I let the nature handle its own job. My cat doesnt find mice but hunts the bugs all the time. I let him do as he wishes.

Relating what you said to abortion, I believe if something is already dying helping it to die or letting nature to do its job is a decision to make. I do not blame anybody who want to end suffering.

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Hermes said:
You dont need to apologize, I am not judging you. You can kill something already about to die, if you dont want them to suffer any further. Yes cats do that, because they are hunters. Its not always for food. I am just different than you, thats why I asked. I let the nature handle its own job. My cat doesnt find mice but hunts the bugs all the time. I let him do as he wishes.

Relating what you said to abortion, I believe if something is already dying helping it to die or letting nature to do its job is a decision to make. I do not blame anybody who want to end suffering.
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Then, what is your opposition to selective abortion?
 
Bottesini said:
It looks like a baby to me.
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Yes, it is a baby. It shows its shape of the fetus' body and it is a " baby ". When a woman learns that she is pregnant - she will say to her spouse/lover " You are goin' to be a daddy! " or say " I am goin' to have a baby! ".

Have anyone heard a mother/woman say " I am goin' to have a fetus ? "
 
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