SCOTUS decision on Prop 8

Foxrac said:
LGBT has different mistreatment - they were discriminated at job, denied the public accommodation, CPS/LEO take adopted child away from couple, victimized by hate crime (murder, assault, battery), previously criminalized by government - sodomy (got struck down by US Supreme Court about 10 years ago), discriminated by landlord/realtor by denied the housing, denied the marriage by government and unnecessary police raid in gay bars or gay owned businesses.
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Again, no comparison to the African-American experience.

BTW, sodomy (which is a behavior, not a person) laws applied to heterosexual and homosexual people.
 
Reba said:
Again, no comparison to the African-American experience.

BTW, sodomy (which is a behavior, not a person) laws applied to heterosexual and homosexual people.
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Agreed. Not even close. I am shocked that people are so quick to trivialize the struggle of African-Americans. It's very sad.
 
Reba said:
Again, no comparison to the African-American experience.

BTW, sodomy (which is a behavior, not a person) laws applied to heterosexual and homosexual people.
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LGBT people have a lot of struggle, similar to black people's experience in past BUT... different mistreatment.

In many states, sodomy laws were only target to homosexual couples.
 
Foxrac said:
LGBT people have a lot of struggle, similar to black people's experience in past BUT... different mistreatment.

In many states, sodomy laws were only target to homosexual couples.
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Honestly, if LGBT people have a strong case then it should stand on its own merits and not need to be compared to or borrow from any other group's history.

The two situations are not the same at all.
 
Reba said:
Honestly, if LGBT people have a strong case then it should stand on its own merits and not need to be compared to or borrow from any other group's history.

The two situations are not the same at all.
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I'm saying that black people and gay people were discriminated and mistreated by government, however most of them don't have same type of discrimination and mistreatment, except for deny from enter the businesses or public accommodation and hate crime are very similar.

Big difference is identify - black people can be identified based on skin color but gay people cannot be identified at all, unless they tell to anyone. Some people could observe if couple may consider as gay couple - you go out with other woman (your friend). Some people could mistakenly label you and your friend as gay couple, based on misconception.

Not related to 1960's Civil Rights Movement, the gay marriage is part of civil rights by general definition - not related to black people.

Some black people agree about gay rights are part of civil rights and they have same struggle with discrimination (only one keyword).
 
Foxrac said:
I'm saying that black people and gay people were discriminated and mistreated by government, however most of them don't have same type of discrimination and mistreatment, except for deny from enter the businesses or public accommodation and hate crime are very similar.

Big difference is identify - black people can be identified based on skin color but gay people cannot be identified at all, unless they tell to anyone. Some people could observe if couple may consider as gay couple - you go out with other woman (your friend). Some people could mistakenly label you and your friend as gay couple, based on misconception.

Not related to 1960's Civil Rights Movement, the gay marriage is part of civil rights by general definition - not related to black people.

Some black people agree about gay rights are part of civil rights and they have same struggle with discrimination (only one keyword).
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Wow! SMH...
 
Reba was pointing out that the african american's struggle for 'freedom' when they were slaves, being beaten, lynched, mobbed. Not given equal rights as Caucasian people. GLBT did not go through this same thing, only being discriminated... those are two different things.

Foxrac said:
I'm saying that black people and gay people were discriminated and mistreated by government, however most of them don't have same type of discrimination and mistreatment, except for deny from enter the businesses or public accommodation and hate crime are very similar.

Big difference is identify - black people can be identified based on skin color but gay people cannot be identified at all, unless they tell to anyone. Some people could observe if couple may consider as gay couple - you go out with other woman (your friend). Some people could mistakenly label you and your friend as gay couple, based on misconception.

Not related to 1960's Civil Rights Movement, the gay marriage is part of civil rights by general definition - not related to black people.

Some black people agree about gay rights are part of civil rights and they have same struggle with discrimination (only one keyword).
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Calvin said:
Reba was pointing out that the african american's struggle for 'freedom' when they were slaves, being beaten, lynched, mobbed. Not given equal rights as Caucasian people. GLBT did not go through this same thing, only being discriminated... those are two different things.
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It isn't only discriminated, some gay people got beat up too - under hate crime. In several centuries ago, many gay people were executed or imprisoned for homosexual behavior. They used to be classified as mental illness until APA removed it in 1970's.

I'm pointing about minorities, especially African American, Native American and LGBT people went through a lot of ugly situation and struggle, however most type of mistreatment isn't exactly same.

The gay rights is part of civil rights, based on general definition.
 
Calvin said:
Reba was pointing out that the african american's struggle for 'freedom' when they were slaves, being beaten, lynched, mobbed. Not given equal rights as Caucasian people. GLBT did not go through this same thing, only being discriminated... those are two different things.
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Yes! And not only that. African-Americans had no choice. There was nothing they could do about the color of their skin. Oppression against blacks held them back in schools thus limiting their future prospects, they were limited in the work place which slowed advancement AND limited in what they could pass on to their children. What happened to blacks affected their families for generations...they are still trying to catch up in some areas. Gays have suffered nothing like that. The gay movement has a history of trying to leech onto other movements to gain support. One obvious example is adding the "T" to the movement which most psychologists will tell you is vastly different than anything "GLB." I'm appalled that some are willing to dismiss the struggle of African Americans so easily.
 
TXgolfer said:
African Americans didn't even need a bumper sticker to be afraid..
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Most minorities go through a lot of ugly situation, including gay people.

Gay people aren't victimless group.
 
TXgolfer said:
Who said they were?
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Many people, whoever oppose to gay rights think gay people are victimless group and they have more rights than other group.

Some people said gay marriage isn't part of civil rights.

That's not true.
 
Foxrac said:
Many people, whoever oppose to gay rights think gay people are victimless group and they have more rights than other group.

Some people said gay marriage isn't part of civil rights.

That's not true.
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You are misunderstanding..... People are saying the gay marriage movement is not equal to the civil rights movement and the struggle that African Americans faced. And they are correct. It is really unfair to African Americans to make that claim.
 
TXgolfer said:
You are misunderstanding..... People are saying the gay marriage movement is not equal to the civil rights movement and the struggle that African Americans faced. And they are correct. It is really unfair to African Americans to make that claim.
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Well, I respect your opinion.

Deaf people have some of struggle as well - discrimination is still problem, despite about ADA is law and hate crime, such as beat up is rare.

Anti-discrimination laws won't fully prevent the discrimination but only allow to sue for being victim of discrimination.
 
Jiro said:
well.... racial profiling aka "driving while black"
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Yes, racial profiling is still problem.

African American receive better treatment today, compared to 1950's.

Same goes with gay people and they were no longer closeted and criminal like in past.
 
Calvin said:
Reba was pointing out that the african american's struggle for 'freedom' when they were slaves, being beaten, lynched, mobbed. Not given equal rights as Caucasian people. GLBT did not go through this same thing, only being discriminated... those are two different things.
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wrong, ever heard of gaybashing? i knew one of mum's freind was is gay (about 30 years ago), he was mobbed and bashed just because he was gay.
...and it still persists if not as much...if you were in construction industry or armed forces, you'd see alot more abuse, even corporations insists on married men who have female as a wife...its very much alive out there, just because 'popular media' doesnt feature as much now because they are more into, newsying the 'gay rights' or 'political discourse' which gives a different picture
 
Grummer said:
...if you were in construction industry or armed forces, you'd see alot more abuse,...
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I can't speak for the other armed services but Hubby (TCS) tells me that he never saw or heard about any physical gay bashing in the Navy. He served on several ships and duty stations, from 1972 until 1993. He served with Vietnam veterans and draftees (he was a draftee himself). He said that when anyone suspected that a shipmate was gay they pretty much just did their jobs and led separate social lives. They didn't report on them unless they did something sexually inappropriate. The same for my experience with lesbian Navy women. I served from 1970 to 1995. There were lesbian women serving also. We worked together but socialized separately. As long as they didn't try anything sexually inappropriate, then that was their life and business.
 
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