School For The Deaf Or Mainstream?

[deafdyke]

Here's my take - as someone who grew up with SSD (which became Deaf right, Hoh left, flux and APD) :

If she's got good speech, and is following well in a hearing environment then consider looking for options for a blended curriculum split between schools. That, or find out how to allow her to participate in various afterschool / weekend programs at the local School for the Deaf.

The early years are "easiest" - and they are *not* easy. They are exhausting. She needs to have CART in place or ASL interpreters now, even if she isn't really "ready" to use them yet. Demand at the very least CART (or TypeWell).

My parents seemed to view ASL as a "failure" - they seemed to think if they pretended I was hearing, I'd "be" hearing. I am Hoh / Deaf no amount of them thinking otherwise changed that, but it did harm my self image. It also prevented me from learning an *additional* language (ASL) that would later prove critical to my university success.

Once I got to grade 3 or 4 (in the early 80s) things became significantly more difficult - As someone stuck in an oral only environment, the in class time spent with conversations increases, and the complexity of the conversations often leave us completely lost (and sometimes we don't even know we've gotten lost - we're excellent "fill in the gap"/"guessers").

I believe the current stats are that more than 80% of students with SSD / SSHL will fail at least one grade (if it's a no-fail environment, then they'll just continue to fall behind ...which is worse because it snowballs and can have lifelong consequences in learning, careers etc).

I was mainstreamed throughout k-12 ... I didn't get much needed supports and it had deep social consequences. It also meant I had to do almost all of my learning at home after school - re-reading the textbooks for what I'd missed in class in an attempt to catch up.
In-spite of all this, I graduated from an IB program with honours - I fought like hell for every single percentage point and NO child should have to do what I did.

As soon as I graduated High School I took a lot of intensive ASL classes, started socializing with Hoh/Deaf signers, got involved with an ASL immersion summer program. It changed everything. It opened doors that had been closed. It gave me the ability to attend social gatherings and be able to fully participate.

When I attended university - I elected to have notetakers as well as ASL interpreters (I also was able to follow a little bit aurally) - this gave me complete access to the lectures, the interactions and conversations and truly made for the first "barrier free learning environment" that I'd ever had.

I have plenty of Hearing friends, my entire family is hearing and even though I don't use ASL all the time, everyday - I would never ever want to be without it. There have been so many educational, social and career opportunities that ASL has made possible.

I can't say how important learning ASL, and having a Deaf community would be for them- even if they don't attend a school for the Deaf, being connected is extremely important.

Please feel free to PM

THIS is an AMAZING DEAD ON post!!!!!! Unilateral HOH kids are in the position where it's not a "GOTTA HAVE", when it comes to specialized supports/the safety net, the way it is with bilateral dhh kids.....BUT, adding all those specialized supports could give them a few tweaks, and even "edges" so they don't have to work so hard. That way they don't have to work so hard and they can acheive much more!

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Exactly. And unless this school is somehow bucking the trend, virtually ALL Deaf Schools offer a VERY hefty dose of speech and HOH style interventions. There are some kids who don't use hearing technology, but at almost all schools for the deaf, you see a lot of kids on the dhh spectrum, from HOH, uses HA/CI to profound uniaidable/unimplanted and doesn't speak, and everything in between. There are even HOH kids who use ASL as a primary language due to expressive speech issues like apraxia, cleft palate and trachostomies

I'm sorry, but where are you getting this information? The Deaf school near me has no audiologist and hasn't for over 3 years now. Almost none of the students use devices, and they can't have them fit because most of them live there. What exactly is a "HOH style intervention"?

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Well, the only difference between HoH and deaf, is that you don't need to worry about speech issues. If her speech is excellent.... AWESOME! She will keep and maintain her speech. But, Hoh kids often don't get ASL and deaf ed oppertunities. Attending a School for the Deaf could be an EXCELLENT oppertunity, as she could become fluent in ASL, and that would give her an additional safety net for when her loss becomes bilateral. Don't worry about severity of loss.... Severity of loss really is a nonissue. Pretty much ALL HOH kids can benefit from knowing ASL. Even unilateral loss kids can benefit from using ASL in a noisy enviroment, or to prepare them if their loss is progressive.

Also, why do you think that the parent of a hard of hearing child need not worry about speech and spoken language? Even children with a unilateral hearing impairment is at high risk for missing language and failing a grade. The most recent research is showing that kids with profound losses are doing better than those with moderate or less.

 

[deafdyke]

I'm sorry, but where are you getting this information? The Deaf school near me has no audiologist and hasn't for over 3 years now. Almost none of the students use devices, and they can't have them fit because most of them live there. What exactly is a "HOH style intervention"?

And where is this mythical place? Is it in the Land of Daniel Ling, where it is claimed that Sign using programs only offer speech for fifteen mintues a week? Unless your local Deaf school is some sort of outlier, the overwhelming majority of Deaf schools serve and get all kinds of kids. Did you know that even ORAL and HOH kids attend Signing Deaf programs? Kids who are oral can no longer bail out at Clarke CID, and St Joseph's since all of those closed their dorms, so if a parent wants an oral education for their kid, they have to move to where an oral graded program is. If they cannot, they then go to the school or program for the Deaf that uses Sign/ASL. Also at most Schools for the Deaf, dorming it is DEAD.

 

[deafdyke]

Also, why do you think that the parent of a hard of hearing child need not worry about speech and spoken language? Even children with a unilateral hearing impairment is at high risk for missing language and failing a grade. The most recent research is showing that kids with profound losses are doing better than those with moderate or less.

B/c it's a skill they can aquire without a lot of effort/intense training. Problem is, is that parents may have unrealistic expectations from speech therapy, expecting it to make a HOH kid's speech exactly like a hearing child's. Most HOH kids can learn to speak and develop it as an active skill......but they will never have native like command of speech. They will have good spoken language yes, but to expect a dhh kid to have "like hearing" speech would be like expecting a hearing person to develop native like (pronouncation exactly like a French person) fluency in French, while taking a French class while wearing earplugs.

 

[deafdyke]

Also, why do you think that the parent of a hard of hearing child need not worry about speech and spoken language? Even children with a unilateral hearing impairment is at high risk for missing language and failing a grade. The most recent research is showing that kids with profound losses are doing better than those with moderate or less.

You're a teacher and you use grammar like " even children with a unilateral hearing impairment IS at high risk?!?!" Also, that just proves my point. It was thought that unilateral kids had one good ear. So they could do OK. But they were working overtime b/c even for unilatral kids hearing is a WEAKNESS. You do understand that right? Remember the hard in the hard of hearing. It's harder for kids to hear, so they expend more energy on hearing. If they are given everything, like cued speech, ASL etc, those enable kids to capitalize on natural visual processing strenghs, so they can do more and actually thrive instead of working with only a weakness.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

And where is this mythical place? Is it in the Land of Daniel Ling, where it is claimed that Sign using programs only offer speech for fifteen mintues a week? Unless your local Deaf school is some sort of outlier, the overwhelming majority of Deaf schools serve and get all kinds of kids. Did you know that even ORAL and HOH kids attend Signing Deaf programs? Kids who are oral can no longer bail out at Clarke CID, and St Joseph's since all of those closed their dorms, so if a parent wants an oral education for their kid, they have to move to where an oral graded program is. If they cannot, they then go to the school or program for the Deaf that uses Sign/ASL. Also at most Schools for the Deaf, dorming it is DEAD.

What are you talking about? I visited my state's school for the deaf in June. I know exactly what happens there. I have a former student (a teen) who just transferred there as a residential student because her mother didn't want her in her home anymore but refused custody to the primary caregiver. She has since taken off her CIs because they can't be adjusted there and because she was being bullied for talking and because she didn't know ASL.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

B/c it's a skill they can aquire without a lot of effort/intense training. Problem is, is that parents may have unrealistic expectations from speech therapy, expecting it to make a HOH kid's speech exactly like a hearing child's. Most HOH kids can learn to speak and develop it as an active skill......but they will never have native like command of speech. They will have good spoken language yes, but to expect a dhh kid to have "like hearing" speech would be like expecting a hearing person to develop native like (pronouncation exactly like a French person) fluency in French, while taking a French class while wearing earplugs.

No that simply isn't true. A child with any hearing loss can have a native command of spoken language if given appropriate intervention.

 

[dogmom]

I'm hoh. One thing I've learned being on this forum is the degree to which d/Deaf people's experiences are invalidated, and the continuing refusal of hearing people to see how they contribute to it.

 

[deafdyke]

No that simply isn't true. A child with any hearing loss can have a native command of spoken language if given appropriate intervention.

Really? With on par verbal IQ? Without a deaf voice? Without all the mechanical issues like pitch, volumne, enunication and articulation? You do realize that even Auditory Verbal admits that dhh kids lag in vocabulary correct?

 

[Mieke]

No that simply isn't true. A child with any hearing loss can have a native command of spoken language if given appropriate intervention.

Sure, it is possible, just like there are hearing people that can use ASL as fluently as natives. But let's admit that it takes time and a lot of effort and native speakers of both languages will argue that there's always some slight things off.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Really? With on par verbal IQ? Without a deaf voice? Without all the mechanical issues like pitch, volumne, enunication and articulation? You do realize that even Auditory Verbal admits that dhh kids lag in vocabulary correct?

Absolutely. The entire goal is to have a child's verbal I.Q. match their non-verbal I.Q. Yes, students lag in vocabulary, that is why they continue to have intervention until they are able to pick it up incidentally through listening.

 

[Mieke]

Sure, it is possible, just like there are hearing people that can use ASL as fluently as natives. But let's admit that it takes time and a lot of effort and native speakers of both languages will argue that there's always some slight things off.

I may need to add that I think it is possible yes but it should be as a second language in my opinion.

 

[deafdyke]

What are you talking about? I visited my state's school for the deaf in June. I know exactly what happens there. I have a former student (a teen) who just transferred there as a residential student because her mother didn't want her in her home anymore but refused custody to the primary caregiver. She has since taken off her CIs because they can't be adjusted there and because she was being bullied for talking and because she didn't know ASL.

Absolutely. The entire goal is to have a child's verbal I.Q. match their non-verbal I.Q. Yes, students lag in vocabulary, that is why they continue to have intervention until they are able to pick it up incidentally through listening.

Then how come they don't catch up? You do realize that the cute little kid who is 10 years old who has a language delay often doesn't make it up, but yet becomes a kid on a lower track English/academic track? You do realize that even the Auditory Verbal superstars the Chaikoffs, were in REMEDIAL English right? Where are the studies that say an Auditory Verbal approach gives a child on par verbal IQs? There are none. There are simply studies that say that AVT is the "best" way to teach a kid to talk. You do realize you can get a child talking, and they will still have delays.....and that hearing kids often still have language delays too correct?

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Then how come they don't catch up? You do realize that the cute little kid who is 10 years old who has a language delay often doesn't make it up, but yet becomes a kid on a lower track English/academic track? You do realize that even the Auditory Verbal superstars the Chaikoffs, were in REMEDIAL English right? Where are the studies that say an Auditory Verbal approach gives a child on par verbal IQs? There are none. There are simply studies that say that AVT is the "best" way to teach a kid to talk. You do realize you can get a child talking, and they will still have delays.....and that hearing kids often still have language delays too correct?

I don't agree with the idea that they don't. The newest research is actually showing that they are caught up before Kindergarten and that vocabulary is not a deficit anymore. I have no idea who the Chaikoffs are, but if he was in remedial English, there could be a million reasons why. Was he implanted at age 1? What was his family's involvement? Does he have any additional disabilities?

 

[DeafDucky]

I don't agree with the idea that they don't. The newest research is actually showing that they are caught up before Kindergarten and that vocabulary is not a deficit anymore. I have no idea who the Chaikoffs are, but if he was in remedial English, there could be a million reasons why. Was he implanted at age 1? What was his family's involvement? Does he have any additional disabilities?

She's referencing the Chaikof (one F not two)family. The parents have two daughters- Rachel was one of the first 200 children to get a CI and Jessica who has Usher's type 1. If you google Chaikof deaf you'll see a ton of stuff about them. I don't know what their educational history is though tbh.

I am one of those "Oral success" kids-- as far as I know I was never in remedial anything, attended a high school that teaches college prep courses.. in fact when I went to Gallaudet I was invited to the Honors Program. That year I discovered that the Honors English was equivalent to what I had already learned in junior/senior year (and probably earlier...) English and Humanities class! Of course... I would up getting kicked out of the program as my grades were not good... that came from 'culture shock' and discovering a whole new world with ASL and actually doing things with friends (didn't do that in HS).

Yes I do wonder how much better I could have done but if I could hold my own academically in HS I went to, I'd say I did darn well.

I however do know a few deaf & HOH who grew up oral and needed remedial and prep(at Gallaudet).. and a few deaf & HOH who did as well as I did.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

She's referencing the Chaikof (one F not two)family. The parents have two daughters- Rachel was one of the first 200 children to get a CI and Jessica who has Usher's type 1. If you google Chaikof deaf you'll see a ton of stuff about them. I don't know what their educational history is though tbh.

I am one of those "Oral success" kids-- as far as I know I was never in remedial anything, attended a high school that teaches college prep courses.. in fact when I went to Gallaudet I was invited to the Honors Program. That year I discovered that the Honors English was equivalent to what I had already learned in junior/senior year (and probably earlier...) English and Humanities class! Of course... I would up getting kicked out of the program as my grades were not good... that came from 'culture shock' and discovering a whole new world with ASL and actually doing things with friends (didn't do that in HS).

Yes I do wonder how much better I could have done but if I could hold my own academically in HS I went to, I'd say I did darn well.

I however do know a few deaf & HOH who grew up oral and needed remedial and prep(at Gallaudet).. and a few deaf & HOH who did as well as I did.

I agree that there are many deaf students who need remedial English. In fact, I like something close to 75% of Gallaudet students need one or more years of English before they can even take a 100 level English course. I am not going to blame that on cochlear implants or auditory verbal therapy. I have yet to see any correlation there.

 

[Mieke]

I don't agree with the idea that they don't. The newest research is actually showing that they are caught up before Kindergarten and that vocabulary is not a deficit anymore. I have no idea who the Chaikoffs are, but if he was in remedial English, there could be a million reasons why. Was he implanted at age 1? What was his family's involvement? Does he have any additional disabilities?

But why does it need to be a disability in your eyes? There's advantages and disadvantages to the fact of not hearing yes. But we adapt our world constantly for hearing people that speak a different language. Why do you have the idea it should be fixed?

My problem is more that from baby on you're telling these kids, please focus on your weaknesses, while they should focus on their strengths, which will give them way more chances to excell in life

We just have different strengths like we all have....

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

But why does it need to be a disability in your eyes? There's advantages and disadvantages to the fact of not hearing yes. But we adapt our world constantly for hearing people that speak a different language. Why do you have the idea it should be fixed?

My problem is more that from baby on you're telling these kids, please focus on your weaknesses, while they should focus on their strengths, which will give them way more chances to excell in life

We just have different strengths like we all have....

My view is not particularly relevant. My job is to teach students whose parents have chosen listening and spoken language. If parents choose ASL, I will make sure they are able to find great services for ASL. Same for cued speech or any other family choice. My specialty is listening and spoken language, so that is what I teach. I do not think that anyone is being fixed. I think that I am helping to facilitate language acquisition.

 

[dogmom]

but wait a minute..."language acquisition" - do you you mean -speech acquisition-
.... a deaf child already has a right and ability to language acquisition, which would be ASL or another signed language.

why are you here?