Salutations! confused on proper asl form

Lisa Sims said:
Thank you Zephren :)
If I may ask, what is PSE and SEE?
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PSE stands for Pidgin Signed English and SEE stands for Signed Exact English. PSE is is somewhere between ASL and SEE. A lot of ASL learners end up signing PSE by accident. They are learning ASL signs, but don't understand the grammar of ASL well enough to use it comfortably. So they end up using ASL signs in English order. SEE is often used to teach ASL signers English. But SEE and PSE are not officially languages. They're tools. ASL is officially a language. It has its own structure and grammar and vocabulary. Honestly this is mostly information you won't really need to know. Just understand this. The goal is typically ASL. You're gonna end up signing PSE by accident. That's ok. Just know that is a stepping stone on the way to ASL. SEE is a different beast entirely.
 
Cappy said:
Who cares what linguists say? Sounds like fake news to me. :) I for one, and a large percentage of my friends perfer SEE/PSE.
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It's not fake news; it's even "news"--this has been known for decades.

If you and your friends prefer to use SEE or PSE (nowadays known as CASE or MCE), that's your choice.

I'm just trying to make this information clear and factual for a student.
 
Cappy said:
Who are these Linguists? A board of hearing language specialists? To tell us deaffies/HoH what is best?
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No, it wasn't a board of hearing language specialists. Most of the research was done thru the Deaf college, Gallaudet.
 
Cappy said:
I don't get it. Why break the signed English? Why sign gibberish? When one can sign clear English? @Reba ASL is yoda speak.
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ASL is not broken English. ASL was the original language. Signed English was a system developed much later, primarily by hearing educators for classroom use, not as a new language.

If you don't want to learn or use ASL that's your prerogative. There's no need to insult people who sign ASL. ASL is not gibberish. ASL follows grammatical rules and has a very definite structure. If you studied linguistics you would know that.

ASL is not Yoda speak.
 
Reba said:
ASL is not broken English. ASL was the original language. Signed English was a system developed much later, primarily by hearing educators for classroom use, not as a new language.

If you don't want to learn or use ASL that's your prerogative. There's no need to insult people who sign ASL. ASL is not gibberish. ASL follows grammatical rules and has a very definite structure. If you studied linguistics you would know that.

ASL is not Yoda speak.
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(Looking around for a face I don't like.) ;)
I need a LOT more practice to be good with ASL, and my receptive skills are far better than my expressive ones. I am okay with that. Most of us just shrug it.
 
Cappy said:
I might derail this thread, but I don't get why everyone is so hyped up on ASL. ASL is a tough cookie to master. SEE and PSE are so much easier. And ASL users normally understand SEE/PSE. So, why start with the toughest possible sign language? Curious.
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ASL is used by majority of Deaf and HoH adults, so SEE are usually reserved for young children and some grown-ups in mainstream school and many of them went to ASL when they were at middle school and high school. I used ASL in 1989-1993 and SEE in 1993-2000 and reverted to ASL after 2000 with some components from PSE. ASL and PSE are very similar but different word orders. There aren't many deaf people using 100% ASL (unless it was from deaf families), so ASL and PSE got mixed in, however many people referred as ASL, no matter about how much is PSE components in ASL.

As Deafblind, the tactile and Protactiles (PT) are heavily based on ASL with touch, so it is easy and quick for DB people to communicate with hands, so they don't want to hold the hands longer and awaiting for SEE to complete the conversation because SEE is longer than ASL. If you know about ASL so PT is much easier to learn. For me, SEE was one of most difficult sign system because you have to master in grammar, so ASL is quick and easy for me to say about everything, however in complicated situation, I usually typing or writing in full sentences.

Reba explained everything above.
 
Reba said:
ASL is not broken English. ASL was the original language. Signed English was a system developed much later, primarily by hearing educators for classroom use, not as a new language.

If you don't want to learn or use ASL that's your prerogative. There's no need to insult people who sign ASL. ASL is not gibberish. ASL follows grammatical rules and has a very definite structure. If you studied linguistics you would know that.

ASL is not Yoda speak.
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I want to say... thank you very much for explanation. :)

I'm wonder if you met with Deafblind people before?
 
The point is, if one can't learn a language, don't blame the language. There are many reasons that people can't learn other languages (lack of good teachers, no one to practice with, not enough time to spend on it, etc.). That doesn't mean there's reason to denigrate the language itself. If a language wasn't legitimate and viable it wouldn't exist. The fact that thousands or even millions of people use the language proves its legitimacy.

That I can't speak fluent French has nothing to do with the French language structure.

That some people can't sign fluent ASL has nothing to do with the structure of ASL.
 
It took me 4 years to understand algebra because the teacher spoke in SEE. I understood algebra in my senior year because I had a different teacher that signed ASL to me.
 
It might help to think of signed English as another mode of English, such as Braille and Morse Code. The Rochester Method would also be another mode of English rather than a signed language.
 
Reba said:
It might help to think of signed English as another mode of English, such as Braille and Morse Code. The Rochester Method would also be another mode of English rather than a signed language.
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If you are anywhere near where I am, just shut up. Shut the ferkin up.
Modes and brailles, who gives a fying fluck?
 
I'm a PSE signer...while most of my friends do sign PSE/SEE, some signs full ASL. I haven't encountered any problems communicating with ASL person as long as we both understand each other. To each their own with how they want to sign (ASL/PSE/SEE), I don't see any thing wrong using either of these and it doesn't bother me. ASL is a language for decades, while I didn't learn ASL til after high school, I've got used to some of ASL signs after a while. I first learned sign language when I was 2 while I was in preschool.
 
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For me, the long and short of this is ... I am proficient in ASL, and that is a language in itself, but the majority of my friends use PSE, so I use that so I am still able to communicate with them. That is key. PSE may not be recognized as a language, but all that matters is being able to communicate with everyone else.
 
My point in this thread was to address the OP's questions as an ASL student. I'm sorry that this thread got derailed.

For a student learning sign language from a blank slate background, it's best to learn ASL. After gaining fluency, then the student can learn to adapt to whatever the local community is using.
 
Reba said:
If you're really sorry, start a new thread and exit this one.
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That was actually rude of you, Reba. It is ok to discuss the differences between signs. After all, an ASL student, as you pointed out, can learn that there are differences between personal sign preferences. Just because you're a retired interpreter doesn't mean you know better than the rest of us who have been signing all our lives.
 
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