Sad anniversary :(

[kuifje75]

Religion has nothing to do with the choice of abortion, although it can play a role on forced childbirths. What if a husband (common in Utah) forces his wife to have a baby against her will, and then what? I know someone who had a difficult childbirth, and doctors wanted to do a hystercomy on her, but her husband said no, cos he wanted more children in order to look good for his church.

I think you all need to have a realty check on how world actually works sometimes. Not all are so good and well-meaning as you may think them to be.

If the child threatens the life of the mother, should the mother be murdered in order to have the child saved? Or vice versa?

I think abortion should be an option, however, it should be done as last resort. I like some laws where they only permit abortions for up to like 3 months into pregnancy, but I think in severe cases if it threatens the life of the woman, that an abortion should be allowed as an option. My aunt died from childbirth, and my another aunt's son had to adopt the baby to raise him.

 

[Beowulf]

Leave politics out of it.
It is a medical procedure to be decided by the woman and her doctor.

 

[Reba]

... What if a husband (common in Utah) forces his wife to have a baby against her will, and then what? I know someone who had a difficult childbirth, and doctors wanted to do a hystercomy on her, but her husband said no, cos he wanted more children in order to look good for his church.

What has that got to do with abortions?

If the child threatens the life of the mother, should the mother be murdered in order to have the child saved? Or vice versa?

Did you know that before Roe v. Wade, medical abortion to save the life of the mother was already legal?

I think abortion should be an option, however, it should be done as last resort.

That is how the law was, before Roe v. Wade. Since the court decision, women can get abortions without medical reasons.

I like some laws where they only permit abortions for up to like 3 months into pregnancy...

Roe v. Wade allowed women to get abortions during all 9 months of pregnancy, including partial birth abortion.

...but I think in severe cases if it threatens the life of the woman, that an abortion should be allowed as an option. My aunt died from childbirth, and my another aunt's son had to adopt the baby to raise him.

I don't know the details about your aunt. I do know that prior to Roe v. Wade, a doctor could perform an abortion on a woman if it was medically necessary to save the woman's life. However, many woman refused to have the abortions because they preferred to give the baby a chance to live.

 

[Beowulf]

And many women chose to have the medical procedure done.
More power to them.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

It has been 32 years since Roe v. Wade was decided by the Supreme Court, and resulted in the killing of more than 44,692,000 babies by abortion.

Something about this post really bothered me, but I couldn't pin it down until now. The thing that stands out about this for me, is I feel I'm being manipulated by this.

I really think that is what bothers me about this. A lot of right wing conservatives will manipulate women and make them feel lousy for their stance on abortion, and I honestly think that's wrong. Regardless of whether you think it's a baby, a fetus, or a blob of tissue, it's not right to manipulate someone to your point of view.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Reba, I am personally pro-life BUT for myself ONLY! I personally would NEVER have an abortion, but I'm not going out there and saying that nobody else can have one. It is not my choice to make! I agree it IS sad that abortions are performed. But they are a nessary evil. Banning them isn't going to make them go away...it's just going to drive them underground and make them unsafe like back in the old days with back alley abortions. You don't agree with abortion? Good....support legislation that will force insurance companies to cover birth control (most accidental pregnancies are the result of failed birth control). support legislation for over the counter morning after pills ...support welfare programs that give poor women a leg up in life and so on.
Hey....would you be OK with an abortion if the baby had died in utereo? Doctors sometimes have to perform abortions (which is a term that simply means the ending of a pregnancy. Miscarriages are sometimes referred to as natrual abortions) on babies who have died in utero!

Very well said, and thought out, Deafdyke! I couldn't agree with you MORE!

 

[Oceanbreeze]

"Jane Roe" is totally against abortion. She says she was used by the pro-abortion lawyers.

"Jane Roe" is also a hypocrite who needs to find herself a good therapist, so she can work out her issues of no self worth.

:roll:

 

[Oceanbreeze]

It also means a woman can choose to keep her pregnancy.

In any event, IMO, it's always a mistake to involve politics in where the heart is concerned.

 

[Reba]

Something about this post really bothered me, but I couldn't pin it down until now. The thing that stands out about this for me, is I feel I'm being manipulated by this.

You are right. The "pro-choice" people want us to believe that abortion is all about "women's rights" and not about the babies.

...A lot of right wing conservatives will manipulate women and make them feel lousy for their stance on abortion...

A lot of left wing liberals will manipulate women and make them feel good for their stance on abortion. The liberals make it seem that Roe v. Wade is all about freedom for women. They don't tell the truth about the business of abortion. They don't tell the truth about options to abortion.

Regardless of whether you think it's a baby, a fetus, or a blob of tissue, it's not right to manipulate someone to your point of view.

That is how the liberals manipulate their point of view. They want people to believe that an abortion does not kill a baby. I think that is the worst kind of manipulation.

If they believe abortion on demand is a good thing, they should be honest about it. They should say, "Yes, we know that abortion kills a baby; we know that most abortions are not done for medical necessity but it doesn't matter because it is a profitable business, and it fits our political agenda."

 

[Vance]

You got it all wrong my son, 40% of the U.S. population disagrees with me.

Wow...you failed the math too?!?! oh my gosh... You got it all wrong, angsty warmonger. There are approx 150 millions of liberal christians, progressive, catholic, etc etc... in America alone. In other words, it is much more than 50% of freethinkers but based on voting numbers, Bush only have 50.4 - 50.8%% of nonfreethinkers.

ravingboy1961, go back to the school because you failed the math. I want to reply your another post but your other post is so retarded... it is no need for me to discuss any further with you in this topic.


Back to this topic

That's right, Dennis. Some of the posts in here have nothing to do with this thread. It was the SUPREME COURT that made the ruling 32 years ago, so a discussion about party affliations really has no bearing.

Regardless of that, though, I am pro choice. I also think that it was a really bad idea to politicize (sp?) abortion. Terminating a pregnancy is a medical issue and nothing more than that. It should be between women and their doctors. In a perfect world, it would be nice if fathers could be apart of the decision making process, but, sometimes that's not possible. Either way, the final decision should rest soley with the woman. It's her body and therefore, her decision.

Very good post


Reba, since you mentioned about deaths Okay, let's talk about deaths. *hands cracked* *neck cracked* *clear throat* *ahem*

I remember when I read the europe magazine several months ago when I was at Sweden. One of stats hit me hard... Here's one stats (from europe magazine that burned and left the permanently memory in my brain):

Since birth of christianity, approx 2.3 billions of deaths that got killed, murdered, tortured, hanged up, suffered, beheaded, etc etc in 'Name of God' by these christians. One of journalists of Europe magazine admitted that there is much more than just 2.3 billions who suffered by these religious people but the numbers were based off the years and years of studying the history.

And yet you didn't concern about these deaths... But wait, there is more...

More than 500,000 women which were beheaded, tortured, suffered by christians, catholics and other religious people for practicing in herbology and midwifery many years ago because they thought that herbology and midwifery is witchcraft. I am not kidding but again, you know how religious fanatics are.. or maybe you don't?

Over 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians got killed and over 10,000 soldiers got killed in Bush's Late Term Abortion a.k.a. War.

There will be more than 200,000,000 species that will get killed and suffered when Bush's plan to wipe out the 141,000,000 acres of wildlife. Remember... life is life.. no matter what kind of species included us, humans.

Many more people will be suffered by Bush's retarded plan about medicaid and Social Security. Deaths will be likely increase in these years when Bush dismantle Social Security.

I can list much more and more... about religious people and their cruelities but I believe you got the point already (or not...). And yet, Reba, you didn't show any concern about these massive deaths by religious people and Bush. The most popular question in the universe: WHY?

That is evidence of approx 3 billions of deaths by religious people and Bush alone for you. Maybe we should be criminalize religious people and Bush for that first before we can 'criminalize' the abortion?

Reba, I already made a very good point about abortion in one of my posts.. Old civilizations has been practicing the conception of abortion thru midwifery method for many, many and many years with NO problem until doctors in America approx 100 years ago or something... They (doctors) simply want to control women's lives.. not only that, they realized that it is much cheaper to have the abortion thru natural method (midwifery) which have been practice for over thousand years (with absolutely NO dangers or side effects)... so they banned the abortion based on faith-based proof that has full of holes. Other countries banned the abortion because of WWI and WWII to stimulate more populations but they lifted the ban when they restored the population and such.

There are many times that sperm and egg couldn't 'breed' and reject from women's womb... based on christians' delusional belief, it is murder. When their cycle is up, egg is alive... if no sex at that time, egg will go out of women's vagina, right? That means egg is dead when it do that... again, based on certain christians' delusional belief, it is murder.

Your stats or whatever so-called 'facts' you posted (link and such) does not mean anything really. It is all about controlling by religious right fanatics. That's what you and your party wants. Nothing more or less than that. Can't you just get it? It is women who make the decision(s) for themselves, not you or your full of hatred party, religious right. It is their bodies, not YOURS.

So.. if you want to talk about abortion and the deaths, then you have to face the fact that Bush alone will kill more than 200,000,000 species included the deaths from Late Term Abortion a.k.a. War.

Reba, I know that you will use the excuse, "What has that got to do with abortions?"... you see, you added the 'killing' word in this topic. I provided my evidence about 'killing' by religious people and Bush.

once again... Reba, you still don't get it. It is about women and their bodies. Pray tell, who owns their bodies? Themselves. Not you. Not religious right fantacis. Not governments. Not Bush the terrorist. Not God. Not Jesus. Themselves, women.

Reba, that is how the delusional conservative manipulate their point of view. They want people to believe that religious people haven't kill any people or wipe out the millions of acres of wildlife. I think that is the worst kind of manipulation.

Edit: People... don't fall for Reba and Religious Right's cheap tricks. All they want is: controlling your lives. Do what you believe that is right for you. Not by governments or delusional Religious Right.

Ok, I am done with this topic... I made many good points in this topic already so I don't need to check this post ever again.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Reba, since you mentioned about deaths Okay, let's talk about deaths. *hands cracked* *neck cracked* *clear throat* *ahem*

I remember when I read the europe magazine several months ago when I was at Sweden. One of stats hit me hard... Here's one stats (from europe magazine that burned and left the permanently memory in my brain):

Since birth of christianity, approx 2.3 billions of deaths that got killed, murdered, tortured, hanged up, suffered, beheaded, etc etc in 'Name of God' by these christians. One of journalists of Europe magazine admitted that there is much more than just 2.3 billions who suffered by these religious people but the numbers were based off the years and years of studying the history.

And yet you didn't concern about these deaths... But wait, there is more...

More than 500,000 women which were beheaded, tortured, suffered by christians, catholics and other religious people for practicing in herbology and midwifery many years ago because they thought that herbology and midwifery is witchcraft. I am not kidding but again, you know how religious fanatics are.. or maybe you don't?

Over 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians got killed and over 10,000 soldiers got killed in Bush's Late Term Abortion a.k.a. War.

There will be more than 200,000,000 species that will get killed and suffered when Bush's plan to wipe out the 141,000,000 acres of wildlife. Remember... life is life.. no matter what kind of species included us, humans.

Many more people will be suffered by Bush's retarded plan about medicaid and Social Security. Deaths will be likely increase in these years when Bush dismantle Social Security.

I can list much more and more... about religious people and their cruelities but I believe you got the point already (or not...). And yet, Reba, you didn't show any concern about these massive deaths by religious people and Bush. The most popular question in the universe: WHY?

That is evidence of approx 3 billions of deaths by religious people and Bush alone for you. Maybe we should be criminalize religious people and Bush for that first before we can 'criminalize' the abortion?

Reba, I already made a very good point about abortion in one of my posts.. Old civilizations has been practicing the conception of abortion thru midwifery method for many, many and many years with NO problem until doctors in America approx 100 years ago or something... They (doctors) simply want to control women's lives.. not only that, they realized that it is much cheaper to have the abortion thru natural method (midwifery) which have been practice for over thousand years (with absolutely NO dangers or side effects)... so they banned the abortion based on faith-based proof that has full of holes. Other countries banned the abortion because of WWI and WWII to stimulate more populations but they lifted the ban when they restored the population and such.

There are many times that sperm and egg couldn't 'breed' and reject from women's womb... based on christians' delusional belief, it is murder. When their cycle is up, egg is alive... if no sex at that time, egg will go out of women's vagina, right? That means egg is dead when it do that... again, based on certain christians' delusional belief, it is murder.

Your stats or whatever so-called 'facts' you posted (link and such) does not mean anything really. It is all about controlling by religious right fanatics. That's what you and your party wants. Nothing more or less than that. Can't you just get it? It is women who make the decision(s) for themselves, not you or your full of hatred party, religious right. It is their bodies, not YOURS.

So.. if you want to talk about abortion and the deaths, then you have to face the fact that Bush alone will kill more than 200,000,000 species included the deaths from Late Term Abortion a.k.a. War.

Reba, I know that you will use the excuse, "What has that got to do with abortions?"... you see, you added the 'killing' word in this topic. I provided my evidence about 'killing' by religious people and Bush.

once again... Reba, you still don't get it. It is about women and their bodies. Pray tell, who owns their bodies? Themselves. Not you. Not religious right fantacis. Not governments. Not Bush the terrorist. Not God. Not Jesus. Themselves, women.

Reba, that is how the delusional conservative manipulate their point of view. They want people to believe that religious people haven't kill any people or wipe out the millions of acres of wildlife. I think that is the worst kind of manipulation.

Very well said, Magatsu!

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Well im pro life,,I think a woman and her doctor should be jailed for performing and having an abortion.Aborton is MURDER

Abortion is a necessary evil. I honestly don't think there's a woman around who likes having an abortion. It's a painful procedure. But, regardless, it's necessary in some cases.

Saying it's murder is just inflammatory and unnecessary. An abortion should not be taken lightly. However, conservatives need to get a life, and keep their nose out of it. It's none of their business!

 

[ravensteve1961]

Abortion is a necessary evil. I honestly don't think there's a woman around who likes having an abortion. It's a painful procedure. But, regardless, it's necessary in some cases.

Saying it's murder is just inflammatory and unnecessary. An abortion should not be taken lightly. However, conservatives need to get a life, and keep their nose out of it. It's none of their business!

And i suppose oswald killed JFK is none of our business too huh?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

And i suppose oswald killed JFK is none of our business too huh?

Stick to the topic, Steve.

 

[ravensteve1961]

I making a point,,,Murder is still murder no matter how you try to twist it around its still murder.

 

[kuifje75]

Husbands who force their wives to have babies without having abortions are murders of their wives.

And people who vote on forbidding abortions are accompliances too. Either way, one is "murdered."

 

[ravensteve1961]

Yeah Look at scott petersons trial. How come scott peterson gets 2 counts of murder if the baby is a fetus? How come is ok for a woman to kill a baby and a man cant?.This is another part that men HAVE NO RIGHTS because of liberalism and the ACLU.

 

[Reba]

Reba,
...Since birth of christianity, approx 2.3 billions of deaths that got killed, murdered, tortured, hanged up, suffered, beheaded, etc etc in 'Name of God' by these christians. One of journalists of Europe magazine admitted that there is much more than just 2.3 billions who suffered by these religious people but the numbers were based off the years and years of studying the history.

And yet you didn't concern about these deaths...

That's odd...I don't even recall discussing the above paragraph with you, so how can you say that I am not "concerned" about those deaths?

This forum topic that I posted is about Roe v. Wade. If you want to discuss something else you can start your own topic.

Over 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians got killed and over 10,000 soldiers got killed in Bush's Late Term Abortion a.k.a. War.

This relates to Roe v. Wade how? I think that I already replied to that outrageous statement in a previous post. Why are you bringing it up again in this topic?

There will be more than 200,000,000 species that will get killed and suffered when Bush's plan to wipe out the 141,000,000 acres of wildlife.

Why do you bring up Bush in every topic? Can you stick with the current topic?

Remember... life is life.. no matter what kind of species included us, humans.

Explain to me why it is against the law to destroy the egg of an endangered bird, but it is legal to kill an innocent human baby?

Many more people will be suffered by Bush's retarded plan about medicaid and Social Security.

Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush....
It's funny; you criticize Ravensteve for getting off topic, and bringing up his deafness all the time, but you do the same thing with Bush. It is always Bush this and Bush that. Guess what? The world does not begin and end with Bush!

...I believe you got the point already (or not...). And yet, Reba, you didn't show any concern about these massive deaths by religious people and Bush. The most popular question in the universe: WHY?

This thread is not about me. It is about Roe v. Wade. And, as usual, your assumptions about what does or doesn't concern me are erroneous.

There are many times that sperm and egg couldn't 'breed' and reject from women's womb... based on christians' delusional belief, it is murder. When their cycle is up, egg is alive... if no sex at that time, egg will go out of women's vagina, right? That means egg is dead when it do that... again, based on certain christians' delusional belief, it is murder.

Huh? You are delusional if you think that is Christian belief. A woman's monthly cycle has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade decision. Murder means one person killing another. Abortion is murder; a menstrual cycle is not murder.

Your stats or whatever so-called 'facts' you posted (link and such) does not mean anything really. It is all about controlling by religious right fanatics.

Which facts do you dispute? Please provide your proof.

That's what you and your party wants.

Huh? Who is my party?

Nothing more or less than that. Can't you just get it? It is women who make the decision(s) for themselves, not you or your full of hatred party, religious right. It is their bodies, not YOURS.

I don't hate the women. I love the babies.
Maybe I should ask you, why does your party hate babies?

So.. if you want to talk about abortion and the deaths, then you have to face the fact that Bush alone will kill more than 200,000,000 species included the deaths from Late Term Abortion a.k.a. War.

What is your obsession with Bush?

Reba, you still don't get it. It is about women and their bodies. Pray tell, who owns their bodies? Themselves. Not you. Not religious right fantacis. Not governments. Not Bush the terrorist. Not God. Not Jesus. Themselves, women.

So who protects the babies?
Why are you so angry about people who defend innocent babies?

Reba, that is how the delusional conservative manipulate their point of view. They want people to believe that religious people haven't kill any people or wipe out the millions of acres of wildlife.

I did not see that in this thread. Where did you read that?

Edit: People... don't fall for Reba and Religious Right's cheap tricks. All they want is: controlling your lives. Do what you believe that is right for you. Not by governments or delusional Religious Right.[/quote]
People can think and decide for themselves. They don't need you to tell them what to do.

Ok, I am done with this topic... I made many good points in this topic already so I don't need to check this post ever again.

So, you just leave a "hit and run" post, eh? OK.

 

[Tousi]

Magatsu, your hatred of the current President, who does not make decisions all by himself, appears to be getting increasingly paranoidal. Take a deep breath and maybe (prolly off topic, too) say some things you like about him as a good starting point.....

 

[Cheri]

Magatsu, Well said, I agree with everything you stated.


I believe Abortion is wrong in my eyes, But a woman decide to terminal her pregnancy it's her own and controls her own body, no doctors, or government can tell her what to do with her own body. If you think about it, If it wasn't for Roe v. Wade; Women will go find ways to get abortion done, and lightly would have higher chance or risk of being killed on some operation table, That is something I don't want to see happening to anyone. When a young mothers face an unplanned pregnancy I think it is her choice of decision should be based on her needs, because I cannot tell her what to do, I won't be the one raising the child. It her choice what she wants to do weather it is abortion or not.