Rinko Kikuchi in Babel

[Interpretrator]

What do you guys think about this hearing actress being nominated for an Oscar tonight for playing a deaf girl?

I guess I have a double standard when it comes to casting. I don't think only Jews can play Jews, or only Italians can play Italians. But I think when you hire a hearing actor to play a deaf role, a) you're making even less work for deaf actors than there already is, and b) most of the time you're not getting an actor who is a native, or even a fluent, signer. (Kikuchi spent a year learning sign language for the part.)

When Babel came out everyone I knew in the universe asked me whether I'd seen it, because there was a deaf character. (I didn't.) Now during Oscar season, everywhere they're writing about it they talk about the "deaf-mute" character she played.

I don't know, it just all bugs me somewhat.

 

[Reba]

...I don't know, it just all bugs me somewhat.

I know what you mean.

I haven't seen the movie, and I didn't even know it had a deaf character.

In general, I'm conflicted about this. In principle, I prefer Deaf playing Deaf. I also know that in past movies (The Heart is a Lonely Hunter and Johnny Belinda) "big" name actors were used to draw in more audience, so I can see the viewpoint of the producers, for whom movie-making is a "business."

I never even heard of Kikuchi, so I don't know if she qualified for "big name" when she got the role.

I know there has been similar controversy about non-Asians playing Chinese characters (Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto), whites playing blacks (Amos and Andy), and many, many whites playing Native Americans.

What about actors who portray blind characters or characters in wheel chairs? Hmmm, but we can say, "Deaf doesn't mean 'handicap'."

OK, what about non-European actors using dialect coaches to sound French or German? That's not their culture.

(I'm playing a bit devil's advocate here.)

Will it just be a matter of time for the movie industry to catch up with using Deaf actors to portray Deaf characters? Or should the Deaf community and its supporters get more assertive about change?

The very fact that the characters are still referred to as "deaf-mute" tells me that we still have a long way to go in educating Hollywood.

Interesting how the Hollywood crowd is oh, so, politically correct in other areas but doesn't give a hoot about correctness with Deaf issues. Perhaps that's not a "sexy" enough topic?

 

[Banjo]

I thought her performance was overrated. So was the movie. Like the story of the Babel tower, it's about communication issues but I don't think it was well-executed.

Reba, I wouldn't recommend you to watch this movie. You'll find it to be greatly offensive due to the sexual content featured in the movie.

It feature a young boy in a scene where he masturbates... yes.. they do show it. Though they don't show his penis, but you do get to see him pulling his pants down and rub himself then moan from the pleasure. That was just wrong and irrelevant to the story.

Not only to mention that the deaf character is pretty much a nymph. The movie was greatly disjointed in the story structure.

 

[shel90]

Hearing actor playing as a deaf character

I feel that Hollywood could do better about finding deaf people to take on the role but I had to tell myself that Hollywood is most definitely a cut-throat business and nobody there really gives a rat's ass except for profits and good publicity.


As for the term "deaf-mute", I was surprised at Hollywood for using that term cuz I would think Marlee Matlin would have educated them somewhat? Guess not!

 

[ismi]

What about actors who portray blind characters or characters in wheel chairs? Hmmm, but we can say, "Deaf doesn't mean 'handicap'."

That doesn't really apply here, IMO. The disabled communities have many of the same discussions about whether it's appropriate to have non-disabled actors playing disabled roles.

I think it's better to have a disabled (or d/Deaf) actor in the role, but it's not always possible for a whole variety of reasons (casting is a very specific process, and if the person who is 'right' for the role happens to not be disabled ...).

Actually, I wondered when I heard about it was whether the actress is herself Japanese (from the country, I mean, obviously she's ethnic Japanese). If so, that could provide an explanation; Japan is not very tolerant of disabled people, and I suspect they're not very tolerant of Deaf, either. That might make it hard for a studio to find a deaf Japanese actress.

 

[Interpretrator]

If so, that could provide an explanation; Japan is not very tolerant of disabled people, and I suspect they're not very tolerant of Deaf, either. That might make it hard for a studio to find a deaf Japanese actress.

She is from Japan, and you have a point. There has been a lot of oppression of sign language in Japan; I don't know if that continues today or not. But here's the thing: perhaps there's a deaf (or even a CODA) Japanese-American who could have played the part? Was it more important that she be from Japan, or that she be deaf and/or a native signer?

True, I don't know Japanese sign language myself, but I have seen (and tried to communicate with) Japanese deaf signers, and "fluent" seems to look the same in both ASL and Japanese sign. And from the clips I've seen of Babel, Kikuchi's sign language was not very fluid or native-like. Ironic in a movie that is supposed to be about communication.

 

[Banjo]

And from the clips I've seen of Babel, Kikuchi's sign language was not very fluid or native-like. Ironic in a movie that is supposed to be about communication.

I can assure you that it's not smooth. She "chant" while she sign in a "jerky" manner. The deaf characters seem to sign quite fast with VERY few signs while they "chant" the rest.

It was somewhere annoying.

 

[ismi]

She is from Japan, and you have a point. There has been a lot of oppression of sign language in Japan; I don't know if that continues today or not. But here's the thing: perhaps there's a deaf (or even a CODA) Japanese-American who could have played the part? Was it more important that she be from Japan, or that she be deaf and/or a native signer?

Then people would complain that they were signing ASL and pretending it was JSL, and gee isn't it unfortunate that people assume sign language is universal. (Although I suppose a fluent ASLer would have signed better JSL ...).

To me, her being Japanese wouldn't be so much a cultural issue ("it's a Japanese character, we should have a Japanese actress") as a logistical issue ("we're filming in Japan, with Japanese people, the actress needs to be able to fit in culturally so that things run smoothly"). But then of course, here we're running into rampant speculation.

 

[authentic]

I can assure you that it's not smooth. She "chant" while she sign in a "jerky" manner. The deaf characters seem to sign quite fast with VERY few signs while they "chant" the rest.

It was somewhere annoying.

More likely her ASL instructor who doesn't sign ASL smoothly as well. Other reason..if she signs smoothly, then the movie productor said "WAIT, slow down, so people, like us would understand clearly what you're saying in the movie"

 

[Interpretrator]

Then people would complain that they were signing ASL and pretending it was JSL

Wait wait wait, I never said that. I would assume the actress would learn JSL. It's just that as you say, I believe a deaf fluent signer would look far more natural signing even a foreign language than a hearing non-signer who studied for one year.

It just bugs me when everyone talks about how the director made all this effort to be so authentic with the different actors and nationalities and locations and whatever, and then there's this. Just another example of how far below most people's radar -- even educated people -- lies anything to do with deafness.

 

[Interpretrator]

More likely her ASL instructor who doesn't sign ASL smoothly as well.

Japanese sign, not ASL.

Other reason..if she signs smoothly, then the movie productor said "WAIT, slow down, so people, like us would understand clearly what you're saying in the movie"

I highly doubt that the producer expected people who saw this movie to understand Japanese sign language. That's why it was subtitled. I really don't think they told her to sign badly on purpose.

 

[missLsej]

Maybe some directors are scared to word with Deaf actors (How would I get my directions across? I'll have to change positioning JUST from them, etc.)

 

[Banjo]

I'd like to ask you about the auditioning process for Babel, because you said it took almost a year.

I really tried to do my best, almost desperately so. It was a lot like a love relationship: I really wanted him to look at me and see me. At one point, Alejandro remarked that he preferred to have a real deaf-mute woman play the character and, sure enough, on the next audition every candidate was deaf-mute except me! Alejandro is very frank. He speaks his mind and doesn't hide his feelings, but sometimes that put a lot of extra pressure on me. I believed that, compared to those other candidates, I had the ability to approach the character as a professional actress. If it was the part of a criminal I was auditioning for, would that mean that only a real criminal could play that role? Of course not. I kept that in mind and believed that I had what it takes to do the part as a professional actor. The character of Chieko is sixteen, but if I had been sixteen myself, I couldn't have played her the way I did. When I was that age, I didn't have the capacity to keep an objective view of such a character and at the same time retain a very positive attitude toward playing her. I wouldn't have been able to keep a distance from it.

http://www.midnighteye.com/interviews/rinko_kikuchi.shtml

 

[Cousin Vinny]

Just another example of how far below most people's radar -- even educated people -- lies anything to do with deafness.

Now, that's an astute observation, and sadly symptomatic of what ails localized Deaf concerns. Sure, Gallaudet and other programs having a critical mass of Deaf people will continue to garner their share of the public's attention... But the daily struggles of countless community Deaf service organizations that dot the USA are widely undocumented.

I know, going OT for a minute... Regardless, the director should have hired a Deaf Japanese actress.

 

[jillio]

I can assure you that it's not smooth. She "chant" while she sign in a "jerky" manner. The deaf characters seem to sign quite fast with VERY few signs while they "chant" the rest.

It was somewhere annoying.

My impression as well.

 

[Interpretrator]

Banjo, good find! Wow, that is a sad and unfortunate attitude on both the part of the director and the actress. I'm glad I never saw this movie.

 

[Banjo]

People keep going around telling how brilliant Babel was. It's enough to make me gag, not only that... they keep saying how "utterly convincing" Rinko's performance was as a deaf character. I guess it may be "utterly convincing" to people who has never met a deaf person in his/her life.

Gee whiz.

 

[ringo]

I can assure you that it's not smooth. She "chant" while she sign in a "jerky" manner. The deaf characters seem to sign quite fast with VERY few signs while they "chant" the rest.

It was somewhere annoying.

Can you sign in japanese then? I'm assuming that's the signing that she was doing.

 

[ringo]

Maybe some directors are scared to word with Deaf actors (How would I get my directions across? I'll have to change positioning JUST from them, etc.)

I think you need to see the movie. Then you'd realise that english is not the only language in the film

There's Japanese, Spanish, Arabic and other languages. So the director had problems with them all not just deaf (potentially).

Those that haven't seen the movie should see it and not rely on what others have said. It is a very good movie and well worth seeing. Yes there is sex related stuff in it but so in life there is too.
Fundamentally the movie is communication. Hence all the different countries and languages in the film. Everything was in the movie for a reason. If you don't understand why a certain part was in the movie or disagree with something i think you should read up about it a bit more.

Well worth seeing.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

I could be off base on this one; I wonder if the character's nudity had to play with the producer's decision in casting (or more specificially, defaulting) a hearing woman to play that role in Babel?

I remember watching a short video segment on the PBS's Through Deaf Eyes documentary, where Marlee Matlin's agent called in and asked her whether she would accept nudity or not. Marlee responded to the lines of wanting to be a 'professional' actress and said yes.

Maybe the producer was truly sincere in casting a Deaf Japanese woman to play the role in Babel, but probably encountered some resistance on the nudity front. In the end, the producer, couldn't really find a suitable Deaf actress who was willing to do what the role required, 'defaulted' upon using a hearing woman to play the role.

Now, is that a good or bad thing? I dunno. Hearing women, of all stripes, do accept roles having nude scenes, and they don't seem to be better or worse off. Countless women do turn down roles, and they don't seem to be better or worse off. Largely a matter of personal choice, I guess. Too bad. I would have loved to see a Deaf woman fill the role for the sake of authencity.