Requirement? Pass a Urine Test Before Getting Public Assistance?

[Aleser]

Since someone applying at MEPS isn't even in the military, obviously the military would have no authority to punish someone for anything. Until the contract is signed, the person isn't under the UCMJ.

By "without punishment" I mean "without losing a job offer you would have otherwise had."

The person volunteering has to provide various documents, take a battery of written tests, get physically examined, have a urinalysis done, and have a background check done.

See: how well you can lie. People study up for their tests even though you're not supposed to, lie their tails off on the physical questions, etc. I don't know when you knew someone going into the military, but nowadays you see kids lying about EVERYTHING. No kid wants to lose out on a paid college education and a job because they had an asthma attack when they were 14: so they lie their teeth off, and not just about drug use.

 

[Beowulf]

Agreed. Is this an issue about doing something to assist those with substance abuse problems get into treatment and receive help? If so, then focusing on the poor population will not be a drop in the bucket.

Or is this an issue of making it even more difficult than it currently is for those who are most needy to receive assistance? That is what it appears to be to me. It isn't about substance abuse at all...it is about further social control over the poor and needy population in this country.

The attitude would seem to be that if you are middle America or wealthier, drug use is okay. It is only punishable if you have committed the crime of being poor.

Drug testing is being used as a freaking wedge to widen the divides between the classes. I wish people can see this.

 

[Reba]

See: how well you can lie. People study up for their tests even though you're not supposed to...

Hubby and I each took that test, and I don't recall being told we couldn't study for it but even if we had I don't see how it would have made any difference in the score. We just walked into the recruiting center and took the tests.

lie their tails off on the physical questions, etc.

What good would that do? The doctors will exam each candidate. If a person isn't physically fit, that can't be hidden. Even if someone squeaks by the physical exam, the first two weeks of boot camp will weed out the rest. It wastes money, time and effort, which is a shame.

I don't know when you knew someone going into the military, but nowadays you see kids lying about EVERYTHING.

Hubby and I joined in 1970. Most recently, our nephew joined last year. We have other friends who have joined over the years.

No kid wants to lose out on a paid college education and a job because they had an asthma attack when they were 14: so they lie their teeth off, and not just about drug use.

I don't know why they would. It just puts off the inevitable. If they have a physical or drug problem, it will be found out. Then they'll be discharged with no benefits. Big waste.

 

[Beowulf]

Hubby and I each took that test, and I don't recall being told we couldn't study for it but even if we had I don't see how it would have made any difference in the score. We just walked into the recruiting center and took the tests.


What good would that do? The doctors will exam each candidate. If a person isn't physically fit, that can't be hidden. Even if someone squeaks by the physical exam, the first two weeks of boot camp will weed out the rest. It wastes money, time and effort, which is a shame.


Hubby and I joined in 1970. Most recently, our nephew joined last year. We have other friends who have joined over the years.


I don't know why they would. It just puts off the inevitable. If they have a physical or drug problem, it will be found out. Then they'll be discharged with no benefits. Big waste.

The military can be stubborn and stupid as mules. Being discharged with no benefits for a medical problem rubs me the wrong way.

 

[jillio]

Yes.

Sooo, what is the protocol if they have a dirty urine? What is the proportion of dirty to clean in the routine testing of the military?

 

[jillio]

The military can be stubborn and stupid as mules. Being discharged with no benefits for a medical problem rubs me the wrong way.

Nice way to deal with substance abuse.:roll: But given the way the VA treats those vets with mental disorders, I can't say I am surprised. But I can say I find it shameful. Especially since they don't seem to be too terribly concerned with alcohol abuse.

 

[jillio]

Drug testing is being used as a freaking wedge to widen the divides between the classes. I wish people can see this.

If only they would open their eyes.

 

[jillio]

Since someone applying at MEPS isn't even in the military, obviously the military would have no authority to punish someone for anything. Until the contract is signed, the person isn't under the UCMJ.


No, it isn't "one big test of how well you can lie." :roll:

The person volunteering has to provide various documents, take a battery of written tests, get physically examined, have a urinalysis done, and have a background check done.

Does the military routinely punish those with a medical or mental disorder? Punishment seems a bit harsh for having developed a disorder. Particularly since the military environment is the trigger that creates manifestation of some of these disorders.
it
But, once again,we are talking a method of social control, given that the majority of enlisted men and women fit the lower SES catagory and many are of minority ethnicity.

 

[Aleser]

I don't know why they would. It just puts off the inevitable. If they have a physical or drug problem, it will be found out. Then they'll be discharged with no benefits. Big waste.

Not really.

MANY DQ conditions are utter garbage. Requiring prescription eyedrops can DQ you. Having your last asthma attack at 13 instead of 12 DQs you. A headache that once required prescription meds can DQ you.

People lie about everything from past hospitalizations, to past mental illnesses. Its a risk many people today think is worth taking because they either join the military or they have no job or college prospects.

Yeah, if you're an active drug addict you'll probably be caught and dumped, but past drug use? Past medical history? Do a simple internet search and you'll find thousands finding out how to evade that- sometimes on the advice of their recruiter!

 

[Aleser]

Does the military routinely punish those with a medical or mental disorder? Punishment seems a bit harsh for having developed a disorder. Particularly since the military environment is the trigger that creates manifestation of some of these disorders.
it
But, once again,we are talking a method of social control, given that the majority of enlisted men and women fit the lower SES catagory and many are of minority ethnicity.

Don't get me started on half of that. Someone without medical clearance can work as a DoD civilian doing the exact same career they'd have done in the military, but they don't get the choice to join the military or the advantages therein.

With so many contractors and DoD civilians basically doing military jobs these days, a lot of it seems to be about saving face and not about mitigating risk.

 

[jillio]

Not really.

MANY DQ conditions are utter garbage. Requiring prescription eyedrops can DQ you. Having your last asthma attack at 13 instead of 12 DQs you. A headache that once required prescription meds can DQ you.

People lie about everything from past hospitalizations, to past mental illnesses. Its a risk many people today think is worth taking because they either join the military or they have no job or college prospects.

Yeah, if you're an active drug addict you'll probably be caught and dumped, but past drug use? Past medical history? Do a simple internet search and you'll find thousands finding out how to evade that- sometimes on the advice of their recruiter!

And, a dirty urine is in no way indicative of existing problems with abuse and/or addiction. A dirty urine can only show that an individual has used the substance sometime within the last 72 hours. The exceptions would be marijuana, with levels being detected for a possible 45 days, and alcohol, which must be tested for within a few hours of ingestion.

 

[Reba]

The military can be stubborn and stupid as mules. Being discharged with no benefits for a medical problem rubs me the wrong way.

Even if it's a medical problem that the recruit lied about and tried to hide at recruitment time? Even when he signed a contract that said to the best of his knowledge it was a true statement? Even if he was only in boot camp two weeks and never performed any service?

 

[Beowulf]

Even if it's a medical problem that the recruit lied about and tried to hide at recruitment time? Even when he signed a contract that said to the best of his knowledge it was a true statement? Even if he was only in boot camp two weeks and never performed any service?

If that was the result of the medical condition, certainly.

How often does the scenario you describe happen? Rarely.
How often is a serviceperson drummed out because of "willful" insubordination? Often.

 

[Reba]

Sooo, what is the protocol if they have a dirty urine? What is the proportion of dirty to clean in the routine testing of the military?

If it's before they sign the contract, then they are simply sent home.

If it happens during their service, say months later, then there are several things that can happen. There are variables. They can be sent to Dry Dock for rehab, they can challenge the test and be retested, they can be discharged, or they can get a combination of those things. It depends on the timing, the circumstances, the member's record, etc.

I don't know the proportion.

TCS might have more info because he was a DAPA officer. I was merely the person who observed other women pee into cups, including women officers.

 

[diehardbiker]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/trey-radel-drug-testing_n_4305348.html

Eh, eh another evidence of government tyranny at the finest... now that this very same scumbag that started requirement for piss test in order to get welfare benefit just got busted for cocaine!

Trust me, he will get away with it, while those who stuck by submit piss so that they can get a drop in a bucket after all and on the top of them, John Q Taxpayer is paying for this worthless shyt..