Putting your deaf children in which schools...and why?

shel90 said:
Well, that would be something I would remember so apparently I never saw it.

I clearly remember when another ADer told Jillio she took the easy way out by taking the ASL route with her son. I was like "whoa!!"
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Yep. I remember that, too. Another one of the oral only crowd.:laugh2:
 
Frisky Feline said:
It is possible that FJ did not say it for her own, but she did say to me that what others told her then FJ told me about calling lazy mom.

I tried searching the link but can't find one and try to search for it. I notice the months are missing between Jan 2010 to may 2010.
Sign Language & Oralism - Page 4 - AllDeaf.com
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I know a mother told WeeBeasie (Sorry about the spelling, I'm going off my head right now) that.
 
FJ, since you did not say that then it must be something else what you learned from the other posters' POV about calling a lazy mom who rather kids to stick with ASL alone and told me about it.

So it's all clear now.

im still searching for it to clear up whose said that.
 
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A said:
I know a mother told WeeBeasie (Sorry about the spelling, I'm going off my head right now) that.
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Yes. That seems to be the general opinion of parents who opt for a Bi-Bi approach at home and in school. :roll: Nothing could be further from the truth. A lot of work goes into providing a Bi-Bi environment for your child, not the least of which is learning and using a new language constantly.

Of course, ASL is easier for the deaf child. That is the whole point of providing that environment. So the deaf child can easily acquire language in a natural way.
 
Wirelessly posted

I had an audiologist tell me that if my daughter didn't learn to speak, it was because i was a lazy mom. could you be think of that?
 
ASL is not always easier for the deaf child. Some parents may have been able to provide an immersive ASL environment in your home, neighborhood and school right from the start -- which is wonderful. But in many households where there's not already a familiarity with ASL, not already an inculcation into deaf culture, it is difficult for a child to encounter ASL without effort. Parents are learning along with the child, rather than teaching the child. The child may be exposed to limited ASL during the day: an hour-long class / playgroup once, twice a week. Relatives and family friends and neighbors may not be accustomed to using ASL with one another when the child is nearby. But people talk all day long, at home, in stores, on TV, radios, at school. So, for a deaf or HOH child with a CI or HA, I believe there's a relatively easier path to incidental spoken language than ASL.

I'm not saying that's as it should be, just pointing out that it takes us far more effort to provide ASL to Li-Li, it takes her more effort to develop ASL because of the relative scarcity of opportunities. We don't work at spoken language -- we 'work' at ASL, as do many of our friends trying to provide an ASL environment to their children in a mostly speaking world.
 
shel90 said:
Well, that would be something I would remember so apparently I never saw it.

I clearly remember when another ADer told Jillio she took the easy way out by taking the ASL route with her son. I was like "whoa!!"
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I think it was rick who said that.
 
GrendelQ said:
ASL is not always easier for the deaf child. Some parents may have been able to provide an immersive ASL environment in your home, neighborhood and school right from the start -- which is wonderful. But in many households where there's not already a familiarity with ASL, not already an inculcation into deaf culture, it is difficult for a child to encounter ASL without effort. Parents are learning along with the child, rather than teaching the child. The child may be exposed to limited ASL during the day: an hour-long class / playgroup once, twice a week. Relatives and family friends and neighbors may not be accustomed to using ASL with one another when the child is nearby. But people talk all day long, at home, in stores, on TV, radios, at school. So, for a deaf or HOH child with a CI or HA, I believe there's a relatively easier path to incidental spoken language than ASL.

I'm not saying that's as it should be, just pointing out that it takes us far more effort to provide ASL to Li-Li, it takes her more effort to develop ASL because of the relative scarcity of opportunities. We don't work at spoken language -- we 'work' at ASL, as do many of our friends trying to provide an ASL environment to their children in a mostly speaking world.
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Lack of familiarity doesn't mean that it isn't easier for the child. Just that it isn't easier for the parent. Big difference. A deaf child's visual sense is stronger than their auditory sense. Therefore, the stronger sense is easier to use to process stimuli than is the weaker sense.
 
jillio said:
Lack of familiarity doesn't mean that it isn't easier for the child. Just that it isn't easier for the parent. Big difference. A deaf child's visual sense is stronger than their auditory sense. Therefore, the stronger sense is easier to use to process stimuli than is the weaker sense.
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I dont get how ASL is harder for the deaf child? Doesnt make sense to me.
 
shel90 said:
I dont get how ASL is harder for the deaf child? Doesnt make sense to me.
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It isn't. It is just harder for the hearing parent. But that doesn't mean, in any way, that it isn't easier for, or more beneficial to, the deaf child. People just seem to confuse what is best for the parent with what is best for the child. Or easier, for that matter.
 
jillio said:
It isn't. It is just harder for the hearing parent. But that doesn't mean, in any way, that it isn't easier for, or more beneficial to, the deaf child. People just seem to confuse what is best for the parent with what is best for the child. Or easier, for that matter.
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I've seen this first hand. The parent does what is better and makes it easier on them if its in the best interest of the child or not. Its sad a parent can be that shallow.
 
ncff07 said:
I've seen this first hand. The parent does what is better and makes it easier on them if its in the best interest of the child or not. Its sad a parent can be that shallow.
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Agreed. I have seen it happen time and time again. I agree. It is sad, indeed, especially when you consider that it is the child that suffers the consequences.
 
jillio said:
Lack of familiarity doesn't mean that it isn't easier for the child. Just that it isn't easier for the parent. Big difference. A deaf child's visual sense is stronger than their auditory sense. Therefore, the stronger sense is easier to use to process stimuli than is the weaker sense.
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Possibly: in a test tube or controlled laboratory.

But not if the child has strong auditory access and the environmental stimuli available is overwhelmingly auditory, when a child's world is awash with incidental auditory stimuli, and ASL is delivered in discrete lessons, in limited and controlled parts of her week, or day. For that child, spoken language comes easier than ASL, it's more accessible, more often, and in greater quantity.

If that same child is in an environment where ASL is everywhere -- everyone around at home, at school, around the neighborhood, in stores, the library, and on TV is signing, and it is spoken language that's directed at her 3 X a week or even daily in a special class -- I have no doubt that ASL would be the more accessible language, and would come far more easily than spoken language. Most of us don't live in this kind of world.
 
jillio said:
Lack of familiarity doesn't mean that it isn't easier for the child. Just that it isn't easier for the parent. Big difference. A deaf child's visual sense is stronger than their auditory sense. Therefore, the stronger sense is easier to use to process stimuli than is the weaker sense.
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Absolutely, totally correct !!! If I had a nickel for every time I realized how much I visually "heard" something, I'd be filthy rich by now. I have always strongly believed that "missing" a sense makes the other senses overcompensate for that missing sense -- in my case, my hearing sense. With my what-I-deem-good-auditory-skills (with the help of my HAs, obviously,) my speech, and my fluency in sign, I have what I consider an all-around comfort level with communication. However, my eyes really help to make up for what I cannot hear. It feels very natural and effortless. It's difficult to explain, but most deaf persons would likely agree with me.
 
AlleyCat said:
Absolutely, totally correct !!! If I had a nickel for every time I realized how much I visually "heard" something, I'd be filthy rich by now. I have always strongly believed that "missing" a sense makes the other senses overcompensate for that missing sense -- in my case, my hearing sense. With my what-I-deem-good-auditory-skills (with the help of my HAs, obviously,) my speech, and my fluency in sign, I have what I consider an all-around comfort level with communication. However, my eyes really help to make up for what I cannot hear. It feels very natural and effortless. It's difficult to explain, but most deaf persons would likely agree with me.
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Yup. We deafies know the answer to the age-old riddle "What's the sound of one hand clapping?" :)
 
jillio said:
It isn't. It is just harder for the hearing parent. But that doesn't mean, in any way, that it isn't easier for, or more beneficial to, the deaf child. People just seem to confuse what is best for the parent with what is best for the child. Or easier, for that matter.
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This isn't about what's better for or how hard it is for parents, we're talking about what's more accessible to a child.

Again, you, your family, your neighbors may have been able to leap the learning curve and provide a fluent and immersive ASL environment for your child from birth. But most deaf children born to hearing parents are not brought into those ideal situations where they have immediate and full access to fluent ASL speakers at home and throughout their environment from the start. Parents and relatives may be slow in the first few years, with rudimentary and hesitant signing skills rather than the fluid and almost constant flow of spoken language and song children are exposed to. Most deaf children do not encounter the same amount of signing as spoken language on children's programming/DVDs. Most deaf children are not exposed to neighbors signing across the street to each other, in stores, to siblings and and their friends signing to one another at the same rate they see people speaking to one another.

A child with auditory access, whether through hearing aids or CIs, is -- in most cases -- going to be bombarded with more spoken language stimuli from the start than ASL stimuli. The shear volume of this input is going to have an impact. The child will be exposed to more spoken vocabulary, more frequently. That wash of continuous language exposure makes it easier for the child to learn the language.

This is one very important reason why we value my daughter's school for the deaf and are proponents of this option if available: they can provide an intensive ASL environment. Sure, we can easily provide access to spoken language ourselves: in her home environment, her local school, stores, restaurants, the gym, piano lessons, in TV/movies, etc., when we travel, she's awash with it. But we can't manufacture people using ASL everywhere we go. Her school provides exposure to other students, from her age group on up through high school, deaf or ASL-fluent teachers and aides, performers and other language models, a controlled environment awash with ASL flowing everywhere.

You may think it's easy for a child to access ASL in his or her own environment, that ASL is just free flowing around the average deaf child. But I don't agree -- I think ASL is far too rare in our everyday lives, far too difficult for my deaf child to encounter on her own, and I think we need to take pretty extreme action to make that's child's path to ASL somewhat easier. In our case, the school we choose, the deaf friends we make playdates with, deaf babysitters who know ASL, using ASL at home even when not directed at the child. This isn't necessarily making ASL easier for my child to access than spoken language, because the balance is still off, but it does make ASL more common in her everyday environment and that helps her learn the language.
 
Grendel, you're mixing up accessibilty with ease of learning. Yes, it's easier to access the edcuational opertunties of the hearing world.(b/c they're right there) ....but that doesn't mean that it's easier for the dhh kid to learn via oral and aural methods (and I say that as a very auditory learner)
 
Yes. You have to live the life of a deaf person to understand and to believe it. Anything else is just stats, and what seems like reasonable, logical expectations but it doesn't always pan out that way. Not trying to be pessimistic, but realistic.
 
I had so many Oprah "aha" moments that led me to really push sign language for my son. He is my only child and since he was diagnosed at 1 month we had only been in groups with other dhh kids. I took him on his first playdate with all hearing kids a couple of months ago, and I immediately saw the difference. I saw immediately how visual my son was, and the spoken vocabulary out of these hearing ONE year olds was so heartbreaking to me. They were saying sooooooo many words, and my son didn't have any words at all at the time. But I saw so clearly how visual he is! Ever since I have been using signs 90% of the time with him. I don't claim to use ASL since I don't know it, but I use ASL dictionaries for vocabulary. The only reason I don't send my son to an ASL school is because it is too far, and we can't move right now. That's his/our story so far!

I don't think ASL will hurt his ability to speak, and he is already lipreading me. He wears aids and can hear sounds but isn't speaking or understanding yet. I wish I would have really used signs from the start.

The first time I went to a deaf conference the first people who approached us were anti-CI. I'm not really affected by things like that, but I can see how many people would run in the other direction if approached in such a way. Also, I heard this is because deaf are really blunt. :) LOL!
 
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