Problems with buzzing

[soutthpaw]

IDR is the sound window, not the volume. It is the range of sound you can hear from loudest to softest at the same time. That is precisely why you experience "landline telephone" sound. When you use a 45 IIDR, you are hearing a 45 db range that will be established by the loudest sound at the moment. So if you are hearing something that is at 80 db, you can hear down to 35 db at quietest. With music you want that as wide as possible so that quieter instruments/passages are not being cut out. A 45 IIDR is considered optimal for speech by Cochlear.

There isn't much information put out by Cochlear on that topic, the best I could find was in the book "Programming Cochlear Implants." They regard exceeding 45 as possibly detrimental to your listening experience; resulting in distortion. It doesn't appear that the programming software offers an option to exceed this.

Cool, thanks. I will definitely ask and try it. I get all day to be mapped. Also got some ideas for better bilateral matching if they agree to try it. Will be an interesting day tmw.

 

[HOH-ME]

Thank you guys for all of the kind replies....and I want to let you know that I appreciate your advice. It's all pretty great.

I have been working..and have to work the next two days.... so things are a little crazy. But I want to tell you that I appreciate you...even if I haven't had sufficient time to respond adequately yet.

I'm still having vertigo issues and working..and to be honest its all I can do at the end of the day to come in and crawl in bed.

I was born hearing, so the 80 IDR doesn't really bother me.... I can tell background noise from voices...and even loud background noises my brain is filtering to where they need to go. I am on the program that does single fires instead of simultaneous... I am in Virginia.

The grounding issue...that's something to think about. I did get them to double check the telecoil...and it wasn't activated. I have one slot with dedicated telecoil.

I'm not sure if I should ask for AB's help this soon into it or if I should wait. It doesn't seem like a normal mapping problem. I don't want to miss my window of learning... I go back and forth But I want it fixed...

Thank you again for your kind replies and I'll do my best to touch on each of your responses if I haven't hit them yet asap.

I am also noticing that sound is doing weird things today... it will sound more normal (but still with buzzing) and then switch to tinny and then helium and then back to close to normal. It's insane. Sound is also fading in and out at times with no change in environment.

I'd set up an appointment with your audi again and have them either have an AB rep on hand or call one during your appointment. I'd still look a the IDR. I was born hearing but when I tried an IDR of 80, it was too much and I had a constant background noise, not buzzing, more like a fan sound. You could also have an electrode that isn't firing right and needs to be turned off--or the M level turned down. The sound changes make me wonder if there is something wrong with your processor??

 

[BleedingPurist]

I'd still look a the IDR. I was born hearing but when I tried an IDR of 80, it was too much and I had a constant background noise, not buzzing, more like a fan sound.

Being born hearing would not change that you would need to use an 80 IDR consistently for your brain to adapt so that ambient noise is not overwhelming (without using ClearVoice as a crutch.) Something to consider for yourself if you decide to give it another go. Her issue is definitely not the IDR.

 

[HOH-ME]

Being born hearing would not change that you would need to use an 80 IDR consistently for your brain to adapt so that ambient noise is not overwhelming (without using ClearVoice as a crutch.) Something to consider for yourself if you decide to give it another go. Her issue is definitely not the IDR.

I disagree...and I was just commenting on her assumption that since she was born hearing that an 80 IDR is ok. Others that I know that had an 80 IDR report the same noise issues as well.

 

[BleedingPurist]

I disagree...and I was just commenting on her assumption that since she was born hearing that an 80 IDR is ok. Others that I know that had an 80 IDR report the same noise issues as well.

I was born hearing as well and I do not have any noise issues. It was overwhelming only for a couple of weeks. Disagreeing is like disagreeing with the well-known fact that a newly activated CI recipient's sound perception is going to change from how it initially sounds. Had you stuck with an 80 IDR, you would have gradually found it to normalize closer to what you remember it being with normal hearing. In fact, having had normal hearing, you should remember that the sound of "air" (your fan sound) was always there. It was one of the first things I missed along with waking up to the chirping of birds. It was just so loud to you since you had yet to adjust that you didn't recognize it for what it is.

Even at lower IDRs and with all CI types, users often experience things like a ticking clock, road noise, or typing on a keyboard as overwhelming during the first few months. These things settle down over time as the brain figures it all out. The "fan" sound is no different.

I would agree it may be way too soon for an 80 IDR with only a month of experience. One should work their way up to it and most that do wind up staying on it.

 

[HOH-ME]

I was born hearing as well and I do not have any noise issues. It was overwhelming only for a couple of weeks. Disagreeing is like disagreeing with the well-known fact that a newly activated CI recipient's sound perception is going to change from how it initially sounds. Had you stuck with an 80 IDR, you would have gradually found it to normalize closer to what you remember it being with normal hearing. In fact, having had normal hearing, you should remember that the sound of "air" (your fan sound) was always there. It was one of the first things I missed along with waking up to the chirping of birds. It was just so loud to you since you had ye to adjust that you didn't recognize it for what it is.

Even at lower IDRs and with all CI types, users often experience things like a ticking clock, road noise, or typing on a keyboard as overwhelming during the first few months. These things settle down over time as the brain figures it all out. The "fan" sound is no different.

I would agree it may be way too soon for an 80 IDR with only a month of experience. One should work their way up to it and most that do wind up staying on it.

I used an 80 IDR for over 6 months...it was just too much. It's great that it works for you, but most people can not use an IDR that high. I remember quite well what sounds are and this was just too much extraneous noise.

 

[BleedingPurist]

I used an 80 IDR for over 6 months...it was just too much. It's great that it works for you, but most people can not use an IDR that high. I remember quite well what sounds are and this was just too much extraneous noise.

You used an 80 IDR with no ClearVoice, full-time, for 6 months or you had one program available that you switched between to use from time to time for 6 months?

 

[everlastingstorm]

Not everyone will want an IDR 80, and that's fine, but there is a huge difference between using it exclusively over time and constantly switching between that setting and another program slot with different settings.

I started off with CV medium. I found it mostly OK but it would make people sound robotic-like when they raised their voice or shouted in certain places. So I tried CV low. I probably would have found everything too intense initially. However since a month from activation, I have been 80 IDR during most hours (except when I need my UZ program which has a lower IDR). It has been 7 months since activation. I have been using CV low now exclusively w/ 80 IDR most of the time, since January. I change my slot to compare with the CV medium on 80 IDR, I am like "where did all my sounds go?!" Now, I am usually using 80 IDR w/ CV low and 80 IDR w/ no CV. The former is my default, but I have been resorting to using 80 IDR w/ no CV more often, after listening to music during travel time to field appts where I find it too cumbersome to cycle through the programs.

If the extraneous noise is too much, I see what it's like with the volume down a few notches before coming to any conclusions. CIs have taught me that, outside of music listening, that less volume is usually more, and usually results in improved listening & understanding ability (the opposite of what I was used to with hearing aids).

Point being, you have to use a sound processing strategy consistently to see to what extent & how well your brain can work with it.

 

[HOH-ME]

You used an 80 IDR with no ClearVoice, full-time, for 6 months or you had one program available that you switched between to use from time to time for 6 months?

IDR 80 with CV medium...it wasn't envrionmental sounds, it was a humming/buzzing sound...I think it was actually the processor noise I was hearing...not that it matters. I have an IDR of 75 and it's perfect for me.

Not everyone will want an IDR 80, and that's fine, but there is a huge difference between using it exclusively over time and constantly switching between that setting and another program slot with different settings.

I started off with CV medium. I found it mostly OK but it would make people sound robotic-like when they raised their voice or shouted in certain places. So I tried CV low. I probably would have found everything too intense initially. However since a month from activation, I have been 80 IDR during most hours (except when I need my UZ program which has a lower IDR). It has been 7 months since activation. I have been using CV low now exclusively w/ 80 IDR most of the time, since January. I change my slot to compare with the CV medium on 80 IDR, I am like "where did all my sounds go?!" Now, I am usually using 80 IDR w/ CV low and 80 IDR w/ no CV. The former is my default, but I have been resorting to using 80 IDR w/ no CV more often, after listening to music during travel time to field appts where I find it too cumbersome to cycle through the programs.

If the extraneous noise is too much, I see what it's like with the volume down a few notches before coming to any conclusions. CIs have taught me that, outside of music listening, that less volume is usually more, and usually results in improved listening & understanding ability (the opposite of what I was used to with hearing aids).

Point being, you have to use a sound processing strategy consistently to see to what extent & how well your brain can work with it.

Again, see above. I'm a couple years into my CI's and have had tried many, many things and have had a lot of success.

 

[janetj1968]

I should notate that while I have had progression with sound (hearing birds, clicks.... and so on) as well as having the duck voices normalize and warping (sounded like a record played too slow) go away.... I have had improvements.

But as far as speech discrimination, I'm still haven't even taken a baby step. Without my natural ear or lip reading I am certain I'm still at zero. This isn't normal progression.

I've sent my audioloigst an email.

So far, honestly my IDR of 80 seems fine. The input doesn't bother me...its not uncomfortable and even with this distortion I can tell the difference in speech and background noises. It's even 'comfortable' if that makes any sense.

But wish me luck. I go back Friday. I'm really hoping a rep can be there.

 

[soutthpaw]

Janet, I think you are being overly optimistic or rushing your expectations. Only being implanted one month. Everything you are hearing sounds like a normal progression. I really don't know anything about the options or mapping strategies for AB, but I'm very knowledgeable about Cochlear's. (2 years in bilateral research studies) I've had a CI over a decade on one ear. I can tell you that maps that sounded good 5 years ago on my 3G back up processors, sounded like crap a year ago when I needed to use them after one of my Freedom processors broke.
The reason I have you this explanation is to support the following statement. Your brain is constantly adapting and learning to process info from your CI. I think the rate/ degree of change slows over time, years. But I can think back to how long I had weird sounds or robot, under water, tunnel sounds, echo, etc. Would be months to years in varying degrees. Contrast that to my experience that rate of brain adaptation to changes in programming happens much faster.
So yes, you need to be more patient. I'm going to write a separate thread from my extensive mapping and testing the previous 2 days soon. But so many changes were made even to very core things in my mappings that I really need a few weeks to a few months to Adapt to the new maps. However they are already better than anything I had the past 11 years. Now one ear with the first new map on a 2 generation processor Monday had a very present under water and tunnel effect. That cleared up with about 15 minutes of talking with the audiologist while my brain was adapting to the very new map. Now that may have taken 15 days or 15 weeks to clear up when I first got my CI. Again this example I give to support my statement about being patient with getting used to your CI.
I did spend some time discussing the IDR with the director of Auditory Perception Research at Cochlear and the research audiologist I was working with based of what I had read here on AllDeaf.
Now I went from a Freedom and a 45ish IDR to a similar 45, 65 and then 75IDR. I actually got what sounded to be a crisper and clearer sound with the IDR increase. This is actually opposite from what they have observed in many "new" patients. They find the wide IDR can introduce to much stimulation.
Hence you might ask to sample your map with just a 50 or 60 IDR. Listen to see if the buzzing disappears or changes quality. She told me that often prelingual Deaf and/or new recipients need smaller sound windows or stimulation rates. (Not sure if AB have adjustable stimulation rates) that's the number of times each second the implant can be stimulated. Both of these can cause over stimulation and lead to decreased clarity or excess sounds like buzzing, tunnel sounds etc....

One of the most common changes over time is the increase in your volume levels as your brain gets familiar with the stimulation.

 

[sonocativo]

Implanted 12/10/14 and 3/25/15 here, the first sounds close to normal now, the second still sounds robotic and all the buzzing and whatnots.... it takes time, going for my 3rd mapping today on the recent implant. I am also getting my wireless accessories activated so that will be a new experience all in its own.

 

[BleedingPurist]

I've been thinking the same as SouthPaw in that it really is rather soon. I still doubt it is the IDR, because of the way you describe the "buzzing" accompanying sounds like speech, but not ambient noise.. which is constant. These kinds of things really do tend to work themselves out over time as the brain adapts to it.

I had very immediate results with speech and sound, but still had cars that buzzed like bees for a while. It corrected on it's own.

As info, both IDR and stimulation rates are adjustable under AB. Adjusting the latter may be the ticket if it really comes down to doing anything other than letting the brain adjust.

 

[janetj1968]

I'm honestly hopeful that I'm rushing...and that it is something that will resolve itself.

But still having a SD of zero after a month is frustrating. It's hard to describe, but if I use my natural ear or lipreading... I am fairly successful at speech discrimination. So its not that I'm not understanding speech...its that the distortion is in the way. My brain has worked out warping and duck voices (for the most part) so I know I have had progress. Background noise doesn't bother me... I am not overloaded.

My audiologist has been brainstorming with AB... and hopefully coming up with things that could possibly be in the way. If my speech discrimination had even came up to 25% I wouldn't be as alarmed....but I'm afraid my window for learning will close and I'll find out I have a hardware issue.

Meanwhile, I have another mapping Friday...and I'm going to see what else they may have up their sleeve.

I did go to hearingjourney.com and did a search for "busted speaker" which is what my CI sounds like. All of those results are coming up as bad electrodes.

So you can imagine how relieved I will be if its NOT a hardware issue...and simply something my brain has to wade through.

Thanks for listening and I'll keep you posted.

 

[lateci]

So yes, you need to be more patient. I'm going to write a separate thread from my extensive mapping and testing the previous 2 days soon. But so many changes were made even to very core things in my mappings that I really need a few weeks to a few months to Adapt to the new maps. However they are already better than anything I had the past 11 years. Now one ear with the first new map on a 2 generation processor Monday had a very present under water and tunnel effect. That cleared up with about 15 minutes of talking with the audiologist while my brain was adapting to the very new map. Now that may have taken 15 days or 15 weeks to clear up when I first got my CI. Again this example I give to support my statement about being patient with getting used to your CI.
I did spend some time discussing the IDR with the director of Auditory Perception Research at Cochlear and the research audiologist I was working with based of what I had read here on AllDeaf.
Now I went from a Freedom and a 45ish IDR to a similar 45, 65 and then 75IDR. I actually got what sounded to be a crisper and clearer sound with the IDR increase. This is actually opposite from what they have observed in many "new" patients. They find the wide IDR can introduce to much stimulation.
Hence you might ask to sample your map with just a 50 or 60 IDR. Listen to see if the buzzing disappears or changes quality. She told me that often prelingual Deaf and/or new recipients need smaller sound windows or stimulation rates. (Not sure if AB have adjustable stimulation rates) that's the number of times each second the implant can be stimulated. Both of these can cause over stimulation and lead to decreased clarity or excess sounds like buzzing, tunnel sounds etc....

One of the most common changes over time is the increase in your volume levels as your brain gets familiar with the stimulation.

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What is your IDR now? Are you using N5 or N6? I asked my audiologist 3 months ago about IDR, she said, "IDR (input dynamic range) is not a programmable feature, per se, for the Nucleus 6. It is incorporated into the various "smart sound" programs... "home," "cafe", "distance," etc." She did not mention what my IDR is. I am using "SCAN" program on my remote now. I struggle with trying to recognize the words using "T" "P" "K" "D" "G" B" "M" "N". For example, tan, can, tall, call, pea, tea, pool, tool,tick, kick, moon, noon, etc. Is this because of IDR? And, I struggle with hearing words that are in different topics, like colors, family names, numbers something like that. I can do one topic no problem. How can I get better for this?

 

[soutthpaw]

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What is your IDR now? Are you using N5 or N6? I asked my audiologist 3 months ago about IDR, she said, "IDR (input dynamic range) is not a programmable feature, per se, for the Nucleus 6. It is incorporated into the various "smart sound" programs... "home," "cafe", "distance," etc." She did not mention what my IDR is. I am using "SCAN" program on my remote now. I struggle with trying to recognize the words using "T" "P" "K" "D" "G" B" "M" "N". For example, tan, can, tall, call, pea, tea, pool, tool,tick, kick, moon, noon, etc. Is this because of IDR? And, I struggle with hearing words that are in different topics, like colors, family names, numbers something like that. I can do one topic no problem. How can I get better for this?

Hi, I went from Freedoms to N6. So many changes were made that I need time to evaluate and adapt to the sound.
But, yes went from whatever freedom was, 40 or whatever. To 45 the 65 then 75(max) initially I was getting the same distorted undertones and overtones around all speech that I've always had. The 75 IDR almost instantly eliminated those and we dropped the rate from 2400 to 1200 because of power exceeding the disposable battery capability. Hard to say how much improvement that rate change made in itself due to so many changes made in such a short time.
So your Audiologist is wrong! It's absolutely adjustable. Have her call cochlear if she does not know how to do it.
We are still trying to fix an excessive attenuation problem in noise, but in quiet, after 11 years the difference is amazing.

As for actual individual speech sounds, when she first mapped my right side, on Monday, the E sounds that is on the end of many letters was twice as loud as every other sounds. She made some changes to the T and C levels I think and fixed it.
Each of your individual sounds should be very similar in volume level. If you have certain sounds that are much lower or higher then you need to try and have your maps tweaked to fix that.
Also see if you can decide if it's a sounds clarity or sound volume issue that is making you miss the words

 

[lateci]

Hi, I went from Freedoms to N6. So many changes were made that I need time to evaluate and adapt to the sound.
But, yes went from whatever freedom was, 40 or whatever. To 45 the 65 then 75(max) initially I was getting the same distorted undertones and overtones around all speech that I've always had. The 75 IDR almost instantly eliminated those and we dropped the rate from 2400 to 1200 because of power exceeding the disposable battery capability. Hard to say how much improvement that rate change made in itself due to so many changes made in such a short time.
So your Audiologist is wrong! It's absolutely adjustable. Have her call cochlear if she does not know how to do it.
We are still trying to fix an excessive attenuation problem in noise, but in quiet, after 11 years the difference is amazing.

Really? Why does the chart (http://www.cochlearimplantcomparison.com/#!comparisonchart/con8) say that 40 is for Cochlear? I am really confused. Your IDR is 75 now? How is this possible?

 

[soutthpaw]

Really? Why does the chart (http://www.cochlearimplantcomparison.com/#!comparisonchart/con8) says that 40 is for Cochlear? I am really confused. Your IDR is 75 now? How is this possible?

The chart is anxiously out of date... contrary to popular belief, just because you read it on the internet, does not mean it's true....

 

[lateci]

The chart is anxiously out of date... contrary to popular belief, just because you read it on the internet, does not mean it's true....

How do I get this info? I would like to show this info to my audiologist. What is difference between IIDR and IDR? Are these same thing?

 

[soutthpaw]

There is also Input Dynamic Range and Output Dynamic Range. Beyond my understanding to explain but that I'd what their research people told me...
It's possible the wider IDR is not FDA approved. Research participants are exempt from some things I guess. Our it may not be approved for the specified earlier implant etc.
It's crazy what FDA has to approve. The WNR wind noise reduction program for example has to be approved individually for each processor and implant combination...
Thank the lawyers...