Pro-choice and death).....(only pro-choice and death comment)

[Jiro]

If that is a true story, it would have been a therapeutic abortion. Therapeutic abortion has no place in the discussion of choice. That is limited to elective abortion.

a what? therapeutic abortion? never heard of it. I just did a quick google...

Therapeutic abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy before fetal viability in order to preserve maternal health. In its broadest definition, therapeutic abortion can be performed to (1) save the life of the mother, (2) preserve the health of the mother, (3) terminate a pregnancy that would result in the birth of a child with defects incompatible with life or associated with significant morbidity, (4) terminate a nonviable pregnancy, or (5) selectively reduce a multifetal pregnancy.

I think it was elective abortion because she just realized she's unable to care for it financially. I don't recall reading the part where baby is "defective." I'll look for the story.

 

[Jiro]

ah-ha... it's called partial-birth abortion. I can't find specific article relating to what I talked about because it was a long time ago but you can google "partial-birth abortion" and you'll see plenty of stories told by ex-abortionists. Seems like half of reasons are - They just couldn't care for it financially and other half of reasons are due to baby's mental retardation.

 

[Cheri]

Thank you, jiro123. You're a big help.

Abortion facts

Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse from Dayton, Ohio, assisted Dr. Haskell in a Partial Birth Abortion on a 26-1/2 week (over 6 months) pre-born baby boy. She testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee (on 11/17/95) about what she witnessed.

The reality is, this gruesome method of killing partially born babies is done many thousands of times a year. Abortionist, Dr. McMahon, admitted in 1995 to performing over 2000 partial birth abortions.

Partial Birth Abortion

 

[jillio]

a what? therapeutic abortion? never heard of it. I just did a quick google...

Therapeutic abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy before fetal viability in order to preserve maternal health. In its broadest definition, therapeutic abortion can be performed to (1) save the life of the mother, (2) preserve the health of the mother, (3) terminate a pregnancy that would result in the birth of a child with defects incompatible with life or associated with significant morbidity, (4) terminate a nonviable pregnancy, or (5) selectively reduce a multifetal pregnancy.

I think it was elective abortion because she just realized she's unable to care for it financially. I don't recall reading the part where baby is "defective." I'll look for the story.

Yes, please do look for the story. Elective abortions cannot be performed at the stage you indicated. That is reserved for therapeutic abortions only, and that has been the law for many, many years.

 

[jillio]

ah-ha... it's called partial-birth abortion. I can't find specific article relating to what I talked about because it was a long time ago but you can google "partial-birth abortion" and you'll see plenty of stories told by ex-abortionists. Seems like half of reasons are - They just couldn't care for it financially and other half of reasons are due to baby's mental retardation.

Partial birth abortions, or second tri-mester abortions are not performed because a parent decides that they cannot care for a child financially. That decision is limited to 1st trimester, elective abortion only. Likewise with mental retardation. For a second trimester abortion that fetus has to be found to have birth defects incompatible with life. In other words, even if the pregnancy is carried to term, the child would not survive.

 

[jillio]

You guys are making it sound as if a woman can decide at any point in her preganancy that she just doesn't want to be pregnant anymore and can go out and get an abortion as a convenience. You are totally ignoring the laws and the restrictions that are in place to insure that doesn't happen.

 

[Reba]

Yes, please do look for the story. Elective abortions cannot be performed at the stage you indicated. That is reserved for therapeutic abortions only, and that has been the law for many, many years.

Maybe you should amend that statement to "Elective abortions cannot be performed legally at the stage you indicated."

Some people will do anything if the price is right. Laws don't stop the greedy.

 

[Reba]

You guys are making it sound as if a woman can decide at any point in her preganancy that she just doesn't want to be pregnant anymore and can go out and get an abortion as a convenience. You are totally ignoring the laws and the restrictions that are in place to insure that doesn't happen.

Abortionists can ignore the laws now just like they did when abortion wasn't generally legal. What makes you think they all follow the law now?

 

[jillio]

Maybe you should amend that statement to "Elective abortions cannot be performed legally at the stage you indicated."

Some people will do anything if the price is right. Laws don't stop the greedy.

Which is exactly why overturning Roe v Wade will not stop abortions. Likewise, those performing illegal abortions are subject to prosecution and prison time.

 

[Jiro]

I'm so lost..... all I can say is - I support women's choice to have abortion but should not be performed in late trimester unless the baby has health condition that he will die shortly after birth or if the pregnancy will cause the mother's death. that's all I'll say for now.

 

[jillio]

I'm so lost..... all I can say is - I support women's choice to have abortion but should not be performed in late trimester unless the baby has health condition that he will die shortly after birth or if the pregnancy will cause the mother's death. that's all I'll say for now.

And that is exactly the way the law spells it out as well.

 

[Reba]

Which is exactly why overturning Roe v Wade will not stop abortions. Likewise, those performing illegal abortions are subject to prosecution and prison time.

The threat of prosecution doesn't stop someone who wants the money.

 

[Jiro]

And that is exactly the way the law spells it out as well.

oh. I see.. I guess everything works out then.. based on what I just read in here... are you saying that there IS a law saying abortion cannot be performed in late trimester but people and abortionists do it anyway in America??

 

[jillio]

Abortionists can ignore the laws now just like they did when abortion wasn't generally legal. What makes you think they all follow the law now?

I never said they all follow the law to the letter. There are other medical practitioners who do not follow the law to the letter, either. That is why malpractice insurance rates are so ridiculas.

But, at least the laws are in place now to protect. And a patient has recourse.

 

[jillio]

The threat of prosecution doesn't stop someone who wants the money.

Exactly. Which, again, is why overturning Roe v Wade will not stop abortions. At least when you go to a clinic, you know you have someone doing the procedure that possesses a medical liscense. Beats the heck out of an elderly midwife with a dirty coathanger in some rat infested tenement.

 

[jillio]

oh. I see.. I guess everything works out then.. based on what I just read in here... are you saying that there IS a law saying abortion cannot be performed in late trimester but people and abortionists do it anyway in America??

The law is very restrictive regarding the second trimester abortions, and you posted those restrictions earlier. People do many things that are illegal in America. There are stories that 2nd trimester abortions are being performed illegally. But if they are being done at the rate some would have us believe, why aren't these physicians being prosecuted?

 

[Cheri]

Did anyone bothered to read the links I provided?

 

[Jiro]

Beats the heck out of an elderly midwife with a dirty coathanger in some rat infested tenement.

:-o Sounds like mexican hospital

 

[Reba]

I never said they all follow the law to the letter. There are other medical practitioners who do not follow the law to the letter, either. That is why malpractice insurance rates are so ridiculas.

Performing an abortion several months after the cut off date is hardly a minor tweak of the letter of the law.

But, at least the laws are in place now to protect. And a patient has recourse.

If an abortionist performs an "illegal" procedure on a patient, at the patient's request, what kind of legal recourse does the patient have?

 

[Reba]

Exactly. Which, again, is why overturning Roe v Wade will not stop abortions. At least when you go to a clinic, you know you have someone doing the procedure that possesses a medical liscense. Beats the heck out of an elderly midwife with a dirty coathanger in some rat infested tenement.

Not necessarily.

Examples:

"KS House Fails to Override Veto on Clinic Licensing"
Operation Rescue » Blog Archive » KS House Fails to Override Veto on Clinic Licensing

"Many New Jersey Abortion Clinics Do Not Receive Required Biennial Inspections"
Many New Jersey Abortion Clinics Do Not Receive Required Biennial Inspections, Press Atlantic City Reports

"Planned Parenthood Files Suit Against Missouri Law That Would Require Abortion Clinics To Upgrade Facilities"
Planned Parenthood Files Suit Against Missouri Law That Would Require Abortion Clinics To Upgrade Facilities