Petition against "dirty signs" book publishing

[KarissaMann05]

Just pointing out a historical fact. I do believe that signing is primarily used by many deaf and hh people but certainly they do not own it any more than Indians own sign language as part of their own historical heritage that continues to today albeit nearly gone. :/ Sign language is for everybody to use, even among those who cannot speak but hear, those with autism (see Sign Language and Autism – Teaching Child Signing to Children Who Are Autistic) and even among hearing babies and parents where sign language allow babies/toddlers to communicate. To say that deaf people own sign language is being selfish and delusional to even push that.

I think you a very good point kononut. How can any group of people "own" a language? They teach languages in schools, here in America the teacher's 1st language is English, but they teach French, Spanish, German etc etc. In other countries they teach English, I'd be willing to bet good money that the teachers teaching English to their students in say Germany or Japan their 1st language is not English. Do you see about bunch of British and Americans crying that they're teaching "our" language to people? That only English speaking people should be teaching it? Of course not, that's ridiculous.

I totally agree that there should be a board with deaf people on it to ensure standards that are taught, but that deaf people "own" it? That's a little far fetched if you ask me.

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

:|

 

[saywhatkid]

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

:|

This whole thing kind of reminds me of a white guy that talks in ebonics. It just doesn't work.

 

[Tousi]

And its not gonna work even though this gal has the right to do this kind of thing. The objection is in her exploitation and all the while she's even puts disclaimers in her vids that she's basically a beginner, a novice. So why doesn't this publisher she supposedly has contact a native deaf ASLer to publish this book?

 

[KarissaMann05]

You know what?

NEVER MIND.

I should know better because ASL is not really important to you guys, anyway. :roll:

 

[ambrosia]

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

:|

How is ASL going to be distorted by this one book? Do you actually think all of a sudden everybody's going to be walking around swearing in ASL? puhlease
A very insignificant amount of people will actually buy this book. The vast majority of people are going to be very uninterested in it. The Deaf, obviously, are very interested in ASL, the hearing people? No they don't care, it's not an issue, they have to worry about it, they don't think about it, they're not interested in it. I don't know if I can stress the words insignificant amount of people enough. Well I'll bold the insignificant part, that'll have to do.

The ones that do buy it? It will be a novelty, they'll use it for a few weeks and forget about it, then they'll rarely use it. Example...I can sign "bullshit" but if I'm going to say it, I just say it....unless I was standing behind someone that was lying and wanted to let whoever they were talking to know it, but no the person actually lying lol. I've shown other "hearies" how to sign it, know when they use it? never. I know swear words in Spanish, and I can't remember the last time I actually used them, this is pretty much the norm for people that know swears in other languages. They'll stick with the good ol familiar.

This book will have no effect on your life, or any deaf person's life. ever

I have that scene from Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail in my head again. Help I'm being repressed, did you see that? Did you see him repressing me? I've been pretty much deaf for the last 10 years, ain't nobody ever tried to "keep me down". 100 years ago, I could totally feel that. 2012? not so much. I can't speak about other countries but in America..if life is hard for the hearing impaired, it's because they're dealing with something that sucks ass and makes day to day activities harder than for the average joe, not because someone is trying to make it harder.

 

[Bottesini]

How is ASL going to be distorted by this one book? Do you actually think all of a sudden everybody's going to be walking around swearing in ASL? puhlease
A very insignificant amount of people will actually buy this book. The vast majority of people are going to be very uninterested in it. The Deaf, obviously, are very interested in ASL, the hearing people? No they don't care, it's not an issue, they have to worry about it, they don't think about it, they're not interested in it. I don't know if I can stress the words insignificant amount of people enough. Well I'll bold the insignificant part, that'll have to do.

The ones that do buy it? It will be a novelty, they'll use it for a few weeks and forget about it, then they'll rarely use it. Example...I can sign "bullshit" but if I'm going to say it, I just say it....unless I was standing behind someone that was lying and wanted to let whoever they were talking to know it, but no the person actually lying lol. I've shown other "hearies" how to sign it, know when they use it? never. I know swear words in Spanish, and I can't remember the last time I actually used them, this is pretty much the norm for people that know swears in other languages. They'll stick with the good ol familiar.

This book will have no effect on your life, or any deaf person's life. ever

I have that scene from Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail in my head again. Help I'm being repressed, did you see that? Did you see him repressing me? I've been pretty much deaf for the last 10 years, ain't nobody ever tried to "keep me down". 100 years ago, I could totally feel that. 2012? not so much. I can't speak about other countries but in America..if life is hard for the hearing impaired, it's because they're dealing with something that sucks ass and makes day to day activities harder than for the average joe, not because someone is trying to make it harder.

It's because you are late deafened that you have this perspective.

 

[ambrosia]

And its not gonna work even though this gal has the right to do this kind of thing. The objection is in her exploitation and all the while she's even puts disclaimers in her vids that she's basically a beginner, a novice. So why doesn't this publisher she supposedly has contact a native deaf ASLer to publish this book?

exactly! But I would have to say because she went to the publisher, not the other way around, pretty sure publishing houses don't actively recruit like that, not for 2 bit writers anyway. But absolutely if a Deaf person that can "properly" swear fluently in ASL wrote a book on it, they could totally do that.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Let me make it clear. I am not talking about HER BOOK that effects it. I am talking about HOW THEY handle the ASL.

By the way, I want to add something that is not related what I said...

"you [Kristin] are simply exploiting deaf people & deaf culture for internet popularity. and now that St. Martin's is intending to publish your smutty signs book, you are also exploiting us for financial gain. that's awful!" -- Victoria

That is something I can't accept what she did.

 

[ambrosia]

It's because you are late deafened that you have this perspective.

My perspective that this book won't do lasting damage to ASL, or that I don't feel oppressed? Both? I'm sure you're right and agree on both counts, because I can only speak from experience. As someone who spent at least 20 years anyway with perfect hearing, and is still totally involved in the hearing world, I can guarantee that not many hearing people are going to be interested in this book and are going to waking around botchedly (I just invented that word it's mine now ) swearing in ASL. Now you might get more young Deaf people interested it. And as far as the oppression goes, I've never had anyone be anything but helpful and understanding. Before I got my aids I got treated like I was stupid sometimes because I had to say what a lot. But after the ass, and yes they were asses, found out I couldn't hear them they felt contrite, embarrassed and apologetic. But still, that's different from oppression, imo

 

[ambrosia]

Let me make it clear. I am not talking about HER BOOK that effects it. I am talking about HOW THEY handle the ASL.

By the way, I want to add something that is not related what I said...

"you [Kristin] are simply exploiting deaf people & deaf culture for internet popularity. and now that St. Martin's is intending to publish your smutty signs book, you are also exploiting us for financial gain. that's awful!" -- Victoria

That is something I can't accept what she did.

okay, that I can totally agree with. But I think spreading the word about the fact the book exists, or will exist, will do more harm than good. It's just going to actually increase interest in her while if she was ignored she's fall by the wayside that much faster.

 

[kokonut]

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

:|

I believe people are entitled to write a book and publish it as they see fit. I also said that by doing so exposes some of them to be the idiots they are in the process, too. In this thread we discussed two examples of those.

 

[saywhatkid]

I believe people are entitled to write a book and publish it as they see fit. I also said that by doing so exposes some of them to be the idiots they are in the process, too. In this thread we discussed two examples of those.

You support racist groups (KKK, Aryan Nation) publishing racially derogatory books for the public to buy?

 

[kokonut]

You support racist groups (KKK, Aryan Nation) publishing racially derogatory books for the public to buy?

I support freedom of the press, expression and speech. Huckleberry Finn is considered a racist and even derogatory book of its time by some people. It's all about context and the content written. There are limits, of course, but we have to be careful when we go there.

 

[Jiro]

I support freedom of the press, expression and speech. Huckleberry Finn is considered a racist and even derogatory book of its time by some people. It's all about context and the content written. There are limits, of course, but we have to be careful when we go there.

then don't you believe Kristin Henson should be careful and not cross the line?

 

[Grummer]

...and according to jiro's observation, one might say kristen is a psychopath too

 

[kokonut]

...and according to jiro's observation, one might say kristen is a psychopath too

Definition:

a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

I reserve that term for the true haters like extreme racist groups, killers, and sociopaths. Kristen is just plainly an ignorant person.

 

[KarissaMann05]

then don't you believe Kristin Henson should be careful and not cross the line?

I thought the same thing, too.

 

[Grummer]

me too, it's So obvious!!

 

[Jiro]

Definition:

a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

I reserve that term for the true haters like extreme racist groups, killers, and sociopaths. Kristen is just plainly an ignorant person.

and for liberals, Democrats, and Obama too?

 

[MissLady]

. How can any group of people "own" a language? They teach languages in schools, here in America the teacher's 1st language is English, but they teach French, Spanish, German etc etc. In other countries they teach English, I'd be willing to bet good money that the teachers teaching English to their students in say Germany or Japan their 1st language is not English. Do you see about bunch of British and Americans crying that they're teaching "our" language to people? That only English speaking people should be teaching it? Of course not, that's ridiculous.

I totally agree that there should be a board with deaf people on it to ensure standards that are taught, but that deaf people "own" it? That's a little far fetched if you ask me.

This really burns me. Deaf people DO own ASL; it is their language! People who speak English do get agitated when people botch the English language (foreigners, for example). Think about Grammar Nazis. Think about how many comedy routines revolve around fake accents with botched English pronunciation. People are very proud of their respective languages; remember it is the language through which you learn about the world, your life, your culture, even yourself. Your own thoughts are communicated via your language.

English is a bad analogy, because it has truly become the language of the Internet and a lingua franca. So many people know English that we can't really stake a claim on it. I would think a better, more effective analogy might be the Native American languages that are and have been dying out. As someone of Native American ancestry, I know that only a few people really know the language. I would be offended and appalled if someone came in, learned a few choice words and decided that they would publish a book on that.

Remember that the Deaf world has often been oppressed. The language of ASL was often the only thing Deaf people really had a say over on their lives; it was and still is their language. I still feel that as a hearing person, I am not allowed to create signs. I can engage in dialogue regarding signs and specific sign choices and what could be more appropriate in a specific situation, but at the end of the day, I match my Deaf consumer and honor and respect them enough to be guardians and creators of the language. It's their language!!!!