Personal Story

hoichi said:
this ignores the actual facts of the DECLINE in ASL in schools for the Deaf.

just on hand....
the gally annual survey of Deaf/d/hh children and youth-noticeable trend sin oral only classroom environment.
just from 2000-2008 there was a 14% decrease in ASL usage in Deaf schools, while an increase of 8% of oral only classes,
those numbers have not gotten any better.

feel free to school me here, if you or anyone have contrary evidence. thank you.
look

having high school classes in a language states nothing at all regarding the actual usage of that language.

latin was offered in high schools up till the latter part of the 20th century, now i'm not the president of agbell i won't actually compare latin to ASL as she did at her annual address last May, (YES we know what you eat for breakfast!),but i will state that just because latin can be found in a high school for a credit, doesn't lead me to believe latin is actually an alive and healthy language..

yeah ASL is available to hearies for a credit

that's not anything at all to do with what we are stateing, in the behaviour of the combined system in keeping Deaf kids away from Deaf kids, and in DENYING them sign language acquisition

so
if you or anyone else here, has evidence to show my statements are false in what i'm telling you...
nows
the
time

don't presume to know whats occurring to my people and culture from the availability of high school language classes..

further at least first come into our culture and learn our language before you make statements regarding it..
truly and fairly.
always a pleasure to chat with you ambrosia
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Oral only dhh specific educational placement or just kneejerk mainstream with little/no support placement? There is a HUGE difference. Formal oral education IS pretty much DEAD, and is mostly seen as an early childhood placement. Thing is, Obama's administrtion has been pushing inclusion for ALL (basicly thinking that ALL kids with disablities are "kids in wheelchairs) Specialized education in GENERAL isn't very popular. Besides, its not like most parents actually have a choice. Most of them aren't given the accurate info (b/c after all its been about thirty years since deaf ed was vibrant) on specialized schools, programs etc. So in order to "save money" the public schools just let them do the kneejerk placement. Oral inclusion was very popular in my generation (in the mid 80's/90's) Unfortunatly the thing that is killing deaf ed, is an inclusion for ALL approach. It can be very hard for parents to place their kid in a school for the deaf or even a program that uses sign!
 
deafdyke said:
Oral only dhh specific educational placement or just kneejerk mainstream with little/no support placement? !
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knee jerk mainstream with little support rose in that time slot 15% no joke.

deafdyke said:
O
There is a HUGE difference.
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im well aware of the differences.

deafdyke said:
O
Formal oral education IS pretty much DEAD, and is mostly seen as an early childhood placement. Thing is, Obama's administrtion has been pushing inclusion for ALL (basicly thinking that ALL kids with disablities are "kids in wheelchairs) Specialized education in GENERAL isn't very popular.
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indeed

deafdyke said:
O
Besides, its not like most parents actually have a choice.
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NO KIDDEN


deafdyke said:
Most of them aren't given the accurate info (b/c after all its been about thirty years since deaf ed was vibrant) on specialized schools, programs etc. So in order to "save money" the public schools just let them do the kneejerk placement. Oral inclusion was very popular in my generation (in the mid 80's/90's) Unfortunatly the thing that is killing deaf ed, is an inclusion for ALL approach. It can be very hard for parents to place their kid in a school for the deaf or even a program that uses sign!
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yes i KNOW
and thanks for the info
 
Exactly hoici. It's NOT CIs that's causing the lack of ASL. You could say the same thing about hearing aids....most kids with hearing aids don't get ASL, deaf ed, or even much exposure to deaf stuff or even exposure to other dhh peers.
 
deafdyke said:
Exactly hoici. It's NOT CIs that's causing the lack of ASL. You could say the same thing about hearing aids....most kids with hearing aids don't get ASL, deaf ed, or even much exposure to deaf stuff or even exposure to other dhh peers.
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yes im well aware of that.
have i been typing in english?

CI the technological device, does not exist in a vacuum. neither do you or me for that matter. no matter how much we think or wish ourselves to. that device as in CI is produced and manufactured and sold by certain entities ie multi-national corporations who are in turn also stake holders in a what is termed the combined system, which is CI/AO/ATV/LSL/AGB, ect they in turn are stake holders in the very companies that produce the very devices. pushed by themselves on new scared parents of Deaf babies..
that's why in my posts, i have repeatedly stated countless times words such as "behaviours of certain entities", and "polices of them towards Deaf", in "DENYING sign language acquisition to Deaf and keeping Deaf children away from other Deaf children"..
this is what they do
the very same entities that push and drill the devices..they have annual dinners together, they support each other, some are heavily invested in each other..sitting on eachothers boards, prob sharign the same god knows what robot fetish...ect ect..its what they are doign to Deaf children via their polices and actions and behaovours, they do that along with the drill, the colonization starts with the implant

thats why im involved.
i wouldn't give a damn if anyone wanted 5 CI, and robot tale fine!!!

but instead its a combined of colonization, thats exactly what language DENIAL is! this system as such, it needs to be challenged until they stop doing what they are doing!!

it is our obligation for our future! to resist and to stop this!

as for stating its the same with hearing aids, its most certainly not!

no matter which way you want to cut it hearing aids are non evasive no drills. biologically. the colonization stops at the body with hA doe snot penetrate it, CI do. further the regime of therapy and if you don't knwo this im very surprised, the regime of therapy is vastly different with a kid on basic aids and the Deaf kids in the snares of the oralist many headed hydra...

and to us thats important! considering along with the drilling you also have the combined system which does as i stated. repeatedly!

ist rather hypocritical for someone to state they support ASL while giving money to the very entities who by policy and design DENY ASL language acquisition to Deaf babies and children

yeah i get it, i do...

its like the drug addict who insists his packet of dope in no way helps the cartels..who produce and manufacture it..
sure.

-enough-

until they stop keeping Deaf children away from Deaf children, until they stop DENYING our language to our babies and children..
we won't stop resisting them
and were growing

and they will be seeing allot more of us...
 
What was the screen name for that schizophrenic guy? His real name was like Jim? James?The guy that thought Reagan and Peter Gabriel unleashed AIDS in the US and he uncovered the plot so they kidnapped and deafened him? He was always going about deaf Jeanie. You're starting to sound like him hoichi.
 
ambrosia said:
What was the screen name for that schizophrenic guy? His real name was like Jim? James?The guy that thought Reagan and Peter Gabriel unleashed AIDS in the US and he uncovered the plot so they kidnapped and deafened him? He was always going about deaf Jeanie. You're starting to sound like him hoichi.
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thank you for the personal insult ambroasia
if you ever have the time i can send you plenty of peered reviewed academic literature on this very topic.

i know for you this may be an out-here thing, -maybe it is. but you have an entire culture stating these things with documentation, at the very least recognize our feelings as valid, and accept we know more about whats going on inside our culture then you do, at the very least.

to start.

even if i was crazy, facts are facts. regardless.

and we know what they do by policy and behaviour, from their own statements, from survivors, entire groups and organizations of them, some even here on this very board, i've seen the behaviours, i've even felt some of their sting...i've seen the tears they cause on Deaf children's cheeks!! so pls,

are you stating, on a thread about CI my posts in regards to CI, and the combined system are what exactly?
sounding how so why?

rather then attack me, engage my actual statements and ideas.
if you can show evidence as to what i state to be false.
then pls do so.

i have every right to post our alternative and our resistance to CI as you or anyone to post the pro CI .

Deaf have even more a right morally after all we are the end targets..

i've never moved ever to silence anyone here, because that's against my moral beliefs to freedom.

what i'm trying to do is show the ramifications of the actions of the very people and entities you support..so others not convinced may choose the right way, so others not convinced and sold, may choose to instead help, so others may read these words and know they are not alone, that others resist.

and so can they!

no one likes to be shown the harm caused by the very products and entities that manufacture them and that they are habitual dependent on cause to others.

i understand completely, i'm sympathetic. i am..
thats why i insist everyone has a role to play in our future survival of a culture and people.

even you
 
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ambrosia said:
What was the screen name for that schizophrenic guy? His real name was like Jim? James?The guy that thought Reagan and Peter Gabriel unleashed AIDS in the US and he uncovered the plot so they kidnapped and deafened him? He was always going about deaf Jeanie. You're starting to sound like him hoichi.
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Wow really? Another who fails to be able to debate a point an instead resorts to personal attacks...
 
Do not take my refusal to engage in a debate of conspiracy theories which would lend it legitimacy, as being "unable" to debate it. I'm dismissing it. Are there deaf children out there that should have been given ASL? Absolutely. Were they denied it because there's some mass conspiracy between educators and manufacturers that want them dependent on the Borg only? Fuck no. There's lazy people. I would no sooner lend any credence, or treat seriously, this conspiracy than that there's one going on between food companies and big pharma to give people cancer so they can be treated.

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
 
In other words there are many legitimate reasons, but by no means justifiable, why kids aren't getting ASL. To rectify them THOSE reasons need to be addressed. You're not going solve shit by implying there's some mass conspiracy going to eradicate Deaf culture to make everyone dependent on technology for profit. You're not going solve anything by attacking with a science fictionesque narrative.
 
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ambrosia said:
Do not take my refusal to engage in a debate of conspiracy theories which would lend it legitimacy, as being "unable" to debate it. I'm dismissing it. Are there deaf children out there that should have been given ASL? Absolutely. Were they denied it because there's some mass conspiracy between educators and manufacturers that want them dependent on the Borg only? Fuck no. There's lazy people. I would no sooner lend any credence, or treat seriously, this conspiracy than that there's one going on between food companies and big pharma to give people cancer so they can be treated.

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
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there is no conspiracy theories here. none! everything i have stated can be easily confirmed with public information from the very people who do it. they don't hide it.
from peered reviewed academic literature int he very field
and form those who have experienced it some even here in this forum and my own experiences.
tell me girl..
what experience or knowledge do you possess to lead you to be so dismissive? your not even a member of our community or culture, you don't even know our language...so

pls do tell..and explain to us that what we have experienced and we we see occurring is well,,,according to you a conspiracy theory..
don't you think maybe, its better to at least gain some knowledge of the culture and language your on about before making such rash sweeping statements?

so AGAIN since you seem to suggest, by your dismissals of my and other statements here, you know more about our culture then we do, i ask you NOW to show the evidence you posses to demonstrate my statements to be false.

if you cant
then you dismissing them is based on bigotry period.

so pls
school me here and show me wrong. show others i'm wrong. show everyone what i state indeed does not occur. show your evidence not your bigotry
thank you
 
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ambrosia said:
In other words there are many legitimate reasons, but by no means justifiable, why kids aren't getting ASL. To rectify them THOSE reasons need to be addressed. You're not going solve shit by implying there's some mass conspiracy going to eradicate Deaf culture to make everyone dependent on technology for profit. You're not going solve anything by attacking with a science fictionesque narrative.
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im not implying a mass conspiracy i have stated facts so pls again show what i have stated to be falses. thank you. no science fiction here. the narrative is based on facts.

what academic peered reviewed literature have your read and or studied in this field to leave you to believe that the combined system of CI/AO/AVT/LSL/AGB do not DENY sign language acquisition to Deaf?

pls do tell...

what is your experience in this field?

pls do tell

indeed. and those reasons why Deaf children by policy and action are kept away from other Deaf children and why they are DENIED sign language is due to ideology period.
that ideology is fundamental to the very industry that drills holes into your head and implants. they are stake holders in each others industries, they sit on the same boards, they are heavily invested in the ideology that drives them.

so again besides your bigotry show the evidence showing they do NOT do what i and others state they do
thank you
 
hoichi
Where are the links to the peer reviewed publications that support your side?
 
IMO peer reviews are worthless because who ever is paying for the research/review/study will get favorable results. Just my opinion.
 
Cappy said:
IMO peer reviews are worthless because who ever is paying for the research/review/study will get favorable results. Just my opinion.
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I posted what I did because I keep seeing requests for them from those that want CI's from those that don't want CI's. But then those that don't just ask but don't post any (especially currant ones) for their side.
 
Jane B. said:
I posted what I did because I keep seeing requests for them from those that want CI's from those that don't want CI's. But then those that don't just ask but don't post any (especially currant ones) for their side.
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Sorry, if you felt it was aimed at you. Not my intent. It was said in general about peer reviews. Apologies, Jane.
 
Jane B. said:
hoichi
Where are the links to the peer reviewed publications that support your side?
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plenty. ill provide the titles, you can find the proper links through the proper channels of academic research available online, ill also provide some links i have on line with the titles.
happy reading. all these works can be found free online if you look.

you can start with a book called understanding Deaf culture from paddy lad. you can find it free floating the net or form amazon to buy
https://www.amazon.ca/Understanding-Deaf-Culture-Search-Deafhood/dp/1853595454


open your eyes is another good book. i highly recommend.
https://www.amazon.ca/Open-Your-Eye...qid=1469826619&sr=1-2&keywords=open+your+eyes

in regards to CI, its historical development with a good bibliography is
https://www.amazon.ca/Artificial-Ea...26668&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=the+artficial+ear

for papers and major works in this field, and one very pertinent to this discussion is, regarding Deaf epistemology and a relation to hathways cyborg ontology, and offering an axiological alternative to phonocentric colonialism with a bibliography and notes is

Cyborgization: Deaf Education for
Young Children in the Cochlear
Implantation era.
professor Joseph Michael Valente,
Qualitative Inquiry
17(7) 639–
652

another on CI and cyborg politics is
Cherney, J. L. (1999, September 6). Deaf culture and the cochlear
implant debate: Cyborg politics and the identity of people with
disabilities. Argumentation and Advocacy, 36(1), 22-34.
Christiansen, J. B., & Leigh, I. (2002). Cochlear implants in children

this is a very important work. few have better qualifications then this one who sits on the academie francaise.
Lane, H. L. (1992). The mask of benevolence: Disabling the deaf
community. New York, NY: Knopf.
https://www.amazon.ca/Mask-Benevolence-Disabling-Deaf-Community/dp/1581210094


Lane, H. L. (1993). Cochlear implants: Their cultural and historical
meaning. In J. V. Van Cleve (Ed.), Deaf history unveiled:
Interpretations from the new scholarship. Washington, DC


Watson, L., & Gregory, S. (2005). Non-use of implants in children:
Child and parent perspectives. Deafness & Education International:
The Journal of the British Association of Teachers of the
Deaf, 7(1), 43-58.
Wheeler, A., Archbold, S

Deaf epistemology, Deafhood and deafness
American Annals of the Deaf, Volume 154, Number 5, Winter 2010,
pp. 486-492 (Article)
DOI: 10.1353/aad.0.0120
For additional information about this article
Access provided by Gallaudet University Library


for Deafhood and search for its meanigns is
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23505838


Ladd, P. (2008). Colonialism and resistance: A brief history of
deafhood. In H.-D. L. Bauman (Ed.), Open your eyes: Deaf
studies talking. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press.
pp. 42-59.

Lane, H. L. (1989). When the mind hears: A history of the deaf
https://www.amazon.ca/When-Mind-Hears-History-Deaf/dp/0679720235



for audism
Bauman, H.-D. L. (2004). Audism: Exploring the metaphysics of
oppression. Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, 9, 239-246

for agbell is
Greenwald, B. H. (2006). Alexander Graham Bell through the lens
of eugenics, 1883-1922. Dissertation Abstracts International.
A, 4502. George Washington University, Washington, DC.
Greenwald, B. H. (2009). The Real “Toll” of A. G. Bell: Lessons
about Eugenics. Sign Language Studies, 9, 3, 258-265.

http://gupress.gallaudet.edu/2900.html
Winefield, R. (2002). Never the twain shall meet: Bell, Gallaudet,
and the communications debate. Washington, DC: Gallaudet
University Press.
Wolfe, T., & Johnson, E. W


for the war against sign language is
Baynton, D. C. (1996). Forbidden signs: American culture and the
campaign against sign language. Chicago, IL: University of
Chicago Press.

thats a start, i wont post a hundred for you but i have plenty plenty plenty plenty more...so bite size chunks shall we

happy reading
if you find any factual errors in any of the above peered review academic papers or works, then pls do not hesitate to contact the university departments of stated authors to make them aware of their errors
thank you
 
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Cappy said:
IMO peer reviews are worthless because who ever is paying for the research/review/study will get favorable results. Just my opinion.
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peer reviewed doesnt mean reviews as you state.

academic peer reviews mean the works that i have cited were also read by academic peers in those fields prior to their publication in the actual academic journals.
they have to meet a standard before that.

you are correct re product reviews from companies indeed they cook the books for the product.
 
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