Peer Relationships of Children With Cochlear Implants

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:thumbd: on the bolded statements

**nodding agreement** Thumbs down on AVT, too, from my point of view. Speech and language therapy to assist with developing verbal skills is one thing. None of us disagree with that. But AVT is restrictive and audist, and prevents a deaf child from reaching their full potential. Boo to AVT!
 
**nodding agreement**

I considered clicking on a more crude emoticion for that one but nah..this whole thing seriously seriously pisses me off.
 
I considered clicking on a more crude emoticion for that one but nah..this whole thing seriously seriously pisses me off.

LOL! Let's try to be civil. I know its hard. For me too when it comes to topics like AVT.:giggle:
 
LOL! Let's try to be civil. I know its hard. For me too when it comes to topics like AVT.:giggle:

Oh yea..all kinds of nasty thoughts are running in my head..whatever I put here on AD is not even close to describing how I really feel about the whole AVT banning sign language issue.
 
Oh yea..all kinds of nasty thoughts are running in my head..whatever I put here on AD is not even close to describing how I really feel about the whole AVT banning sign language issue.

The banning sign language really pisses me off too, but when they do things like cover their mouth or turn their head so the poor child can't even speech read I want to :rl: That is nothing short of abuse and torture.
 
jillo I know...........especially since hearing people read lips. I remember vividly at overnight camp and college in the dorms, EVERYONE (and I mean everyone) would pick up speechreading from me. It was really funny.
I think supplemental therapy with AVT is OK, but NO WAY should it be the main focus of a child's life. If you read Listen-Up the mom raised her son with AVT, but his WHOLE LIFE was basicly AVT?!?!? WTF?!?! I'm sorry, but a kid being hyperprogrammed to the MAX. That's almost like what those families who hyperprogram their kids with "therapy" and enroll their offspring in prestigious nursery schools do.
 
So, I feel like it is my fault that this thread went way off topic. I apologize, never meant for that to happen.

Shel and jillio - I agree. AVT sux. It is like torture for a child who cannot hear. That is why we never really followed it.

Deafdyke - Thank you. I agree absolutely with you. The day our child was diagnosed two audies told us we had to make a decision RIGHT THEN as to the method of communication we would use. Both of us being hearing we had NO idea what to do. Of course we followed their suggestions. (They are the "professionals", right?) I am ashamed to admit that I never considered the emotional impact on my child.

Oddball - Thank you also, however I cannot imagine how any parent would not be willing to do whatever it takes to communicate with their child in a way that they are most comfortable. I do not know that ASL will be that method but how can I not try?! (For the record my 2 other children will be learning it as well.)

I/we have come to this decision sfter observing her peer relationships firsthand at school. (mainstreamed, only deaf child at this school- still deaf even with bi-lateral CIs) In the cafeteria she does not try to engage in conversation, too much background noise to filter. She gets along in the classroom but never really carries conversations with others at the apporpriate level. (She is second grade but we started her a year late) Her peers honestly seem to take on a caregiver role. She becomes frustrated due to inability to express herself. She doesn't act out at school (only when at home beats the crap out of little sis, who usually deserves it.LOL), instead she is withdrawn. That breaks my heart even more cuz when she is in her "comfort zone" (home) she chatters constantly.

SOOO, I am leaning towards home schooling, ASL, and immersion into the D/deaf community.
 
So, I feel like it is my fault that this thread went way off topic. I apologize, never meant for that to happen.

Shel and jillio - I agree. AVT sux. It is like torture for a child who cannot hear. That is why we never really followed it.

Deafdyke - Thank you. I agree absolutely with you. The day our child was diagnosed two audies told us we had to make a decision RIGHT THEN as to the method of communication we would use. Both of us being hearing we had NO idea what to do. Of course we followed their suggestions. (They are the "professionals", right?) I am ashamed to admit that I never considered the emotional impact on my child.

Oddball - Thank you also, however I cannot imagine how any parent would not be willing to do whatever it takes to communicate with their child in a way that they are most comfortable. I do not know that ASL will be that method but how can I not try?! (For the record my 2 other children will be learning it as well.)

I/we have come to this decision sfter observing her peer relationships firsthand at school. (mainstreamed, only deaf child at this school- still deaf even with bi-lateral CIs) In the cafeteria she does not try to engage in conversation, too much background noise to filter. She gets along in the classroom but never really carries conversations with others at the apporpriate level. (She is second grade but we started her a year late) Her peers honestly seem to take on a caregiver role. She becomes frustrated due to inability to express herself. She doesn't act out at school (only when at home beats the crap out of little sis, who usually deserves it.LOL), instead she is withdrawn. That breaks my heart even more cuz when she is in her "comfort zone" (home) she chatters constantly.

SOOO, I am leaning towards home schooling, ASL, and immersion into the D/deaf community.


Dont worry about going offtopic.

That's why I believe in giving all deaf children both ASL and English from the get go instead of one or the other.

As for peer relationships...during my early years, I guess I got along with my peers cuz socializing was mostly thru play but now that u have mentioned about your daughter's peers taking on the role as the caregivers, I am starting to wonder if any of my peers took on that role as well during my elementary school years. That would be interesting to find out.

It was in 5/6th grade was when I started experiencing isolation, frustration, confusion, and noticing that I was "different". By high school, I was so seriously depressed inside but didnt show it. Then, in my early 20s, I engaged in some self-destructive behaviors cuz there was this huge void that I was trying to fill but couldnt. The void was the need to connect with others and I finally got that at the age of 28 after learning ASL starting at the age of 25. No, I didnt learn ASL nor connect with the Deaf community right away but by the time I was 30, I finally, for the first time in my life, didnt hate myself and my deafness. It was like the weight of my childhood burdens of trying to be "hearing" was completely lifted and blown away. Since then, I am happy with who I am and love myself. Every child deserves to feel that way.
 
Where were you in the begining when we were going through this?! jk. Your experience in the middle grades is exactly what I'm worried about for her. These same kids that act as her "caretakers" now will turn on her. Kids in middle school DO NOT like/are afraid of anyone perceived to be different. I could care less about their ignorance. I want my child to be ok with who she is. I know how hard that time is for ALL kids. Now when I think of throwing her into a school where she is the only deaf child, at that point in her life...enough said.
 
Where were you in the begining when we were going through this?! jk. Your experience in the middle grades is exactly what I'm worried about for her. These same kids that act as her "caretakers" now will turn on her. Kids in middle school DO NOT like/are afraid of anyone perceived to be different. I could care less about their ignorance. I want my child to be ok with who she is. I know how hard that time is for ALL kids. Now when I think of throwing her into a school where she is the only deaf child, at that point in her life...enough said.

I was the only deaf child at my school until high school..middle school was the worst. High school was better but I still missed out on a lot both in the classroom and during social times. I started drinking alcohol to get drunk before going to high school parties cuz I discovered when I was drunk, I wasnt worried about anything and felt like I fit in. Thank god, I stopped before I became a full-blown alcoholic!
 
WOW, glad you stopped. I get your point though. I hate the way that the stories you hear about CI kids always make you think that they will be implanted and never have another "problem" in life. (Like you are "fixing" them.) What b/s.

My question to the other parents of CI kids would be..

Did they talk at all about the emotional/social issues your child would still face after being implanted? Or did they make it seem like after being implanted that would be a nonissue, like our audies did?
 
Where were you in the begining when we were going through this?! jk. Your experience in the middle grades is exactly what I'm worried about for her. These same kids that act as her "caretakers" now will turn on her. Kids in middle school DO NOT like/are afraid of anyone perceived to be different. I could care less about their ignorance. I want my child to be ok with who she is. I know how hard that time is for ALL kids. Now when I think of throwing her into a school where she is the only deaf child, at that point in her life...enough said.

Soooo true! And as I have found out this past week and a day - University is no different! It is like I have the plague, and I am the ONLY Deaf undergrad in the University...It gets worse and then just doesn't get better! LOL
 
Where were you in the begining when we were going through this?! jk. Your experience in the middle grades is exactly what I'm worried about for her. These same kids that act as her "caretakers" now will turn on her. Kids in middle school DO NOT like/are afraid of anyone perceived to be different. I could care less about their ignorance. I want my child to be ok with who she is. I know how hard that time is for ALL kids. Now when I think of throwing her into a school where she is the only deaf child, at that point in her life...enough said.

I understand your concern completely. And you are correct...the tables do turn at the point where developmentally, children begin to transition into another pahse. That is the point where I became very grateful for my son's deaf school. The psychosocial issues that occur for kids at this point are critical to their self concept, and self concept is critical to academic functioning. This can begin to be evident as early as the 4th grade level.

Its good to know that you are aware of these difficulties, and that you are doing what you can to prevent problems. Too many parents deny these problems, and create lasting negative effects by not recognizing and addressing them. You are much ahead of the game by being realistic about the challeges a deaf child faces in the mainstream.
 
Your experience in the middle grades is exactly what I'm worried about for her. These same kids that act as her "caretakers" now will turn on her. Kids in middle school DO NOT like/are afraid of anyone perceived to be different. I could care less about their ignorance. I want my child to be ok with who she is. I know how hard that time is for ALL kids. Now when I think of throwing her into a school where she is the only deaf child, at that point in her life...enough said.
TELL ME about it! Heck, even hearing "normal" kids have a tough time in jr high and high school.
SO happy at least ONE parent is aware of the fact that things very often get tough for "different" kids in later grades. That is SO incredibily important to remember.
Sam's mom, how far away is the nearest Deaf program from you? There's also the possibilty of going OFF to school. Yeah, I know it would be hard not seeing her every day, but on the other hand going off to school REALLY helps with independance etc. Most kids do go home every weekend. The days of seeing your kid only every month or so, are SO long gone! There's also the possibilty of going to MSSD (in DC) which is a very good Deaf School.Don't reject the possibilty of a Deaf School. They can be amazing!
 
WOW, glad you stopped. I get your point though. I hate the way that the stories you hear about CI kids always make you think that they will be implanted and never have another "problem" in life. (Like you are "fixing" them.) What b/s.

My question to the other parents of CI kids would be..

Did they talk at all about the emotional/social issues your child would still face after being implanted? Or did they make it seem like after being implanted that would be a nonissue, like our audies did?

Having so many alcoholic family members helped cuz growing up, I saw what the disease did to them and I vowed I wouldnt end up like them. However, I thought nothing of the sort when getting drunk on weekends..it was like after a year, I realized I was starting to rely on it to solve my socializing problems so I stopped. I also stopped going to parties cuz nobody still really made any effort to make sure I was included. I got tired of being the one initiating conversations. During my senior year, I focused more on working a lot on weekends, playing softball, and school. However, despite focusing on more productive things, inside I still longed to do all the social events that my friends were doing.

My best friend who is also deaf finally went to the same high school as I did. She suffered a lot of socio-emotional issues too especially with her cheerleading sqaud. To a lot of people, they were amazed that a deaf girl beat out 200 plus girls to make it on the JV and Varisity cheerleading squad. However, the other cheerleaders had no patience with her and her deaf needs during practice so they snubbed her. After 3 years of being with the same cheerleaders, she was purposely left out from doing a senior dance number with all of them for the final dance show at the end of the school year. They all told her that they got tired of repeating everything for her...that devastated her for life. Even 20 years after it happened, it still haunts her terribly and her self-esteem got completely destroyed and now she is seeing a therapist for anxiety issues.

To the outside, my friend and I looked like we fit in just fine but we both hid it so well ..heck, we even hid it from each other. Finally, we learned that we both felt the same way about 15 years after graduation!
 
WOW, glad you stopped. I get your point though. I hate the way that the stories you hear about CI kids always make you think that they will be implanted and never have another "problem" in life. (Like you are "fixing" them.) What b/s.

My question to the other parents of CI kids would be..

Did they talk at all about the emotional/social issues your child would still face after being implanted? Or did they make it seem like after being implanted that would be a nonissue, like our audies did?

Who are the "they" that you are referring to? Why would I rely upon an audiologist to provide guidance on emotional/social issues for a child with a ci?

My daughter's audiologist, who has been with her since shortly after her initial diagnosis, is a great person and an expert in his field but he is not an expert in the issue of social/emotional and/or educational issues and does not try to be.

In getting information and experience regarding these issues we turned to deaf adults, deaf teens, teachers and social workers those with both firsthand experience and the professional experience to discuss those issues with us.

If you are considering placing your child in the mainstream then not only should you constantly evaluate and monitor your child's progress and experiences but the bottomline is that the better your child's oral skills, the better her chances to create, build and maintain successful relationships with their peers who happen to be hearing.

Also, having raised both a deaf and a hearing child, the issue of peer relationships and social/emotional issues relating to same makes no distinction between hearing and deaf. Virtually all kids, and especially girls, seem to experience a tremendous change in the middle school years regarding friends.
Rick
 
Who are the "they" that you are referring to? Why would I rely upon an audiologist to provide guidance on emotional/social issues for a child with a ci?

Because it is an aspect of having a CI. An audi is not much of a professional if he/she does not take things of this nature into consideration. In addition, an audi is required to take several courses on communication issues, and if professionals in the field were being properly instructed, it is a topic that is covered in training. Simply because your audi ignored it does, in no way, imply that it is not within their scope of practice. Audis seem to be quite fond of denying sign language to a child based on exactly these issues.

My daughter's audiologist, who has been with her since shortly after her initial diagnosis, is a great person and an expert in his field but he is not an expert in the issue of social/emotional and/or educational issues and does not try to be.

Then your audiologist is not as qualifed to deal with CI patients as you might believe. Just another case of a limited vision that doesn't see beyond the ears and the mouth to the person involved.

In getting information and experience regarding these issues we turned to deaf adults, deaf teens, teachers and social workers those with both firsthand experience and the professional experience to discuss those issues with us.

Were those signing deaf/Deaf, or just your average A.G. Bell oral only deaf? You give virtually no value to what the deaf on this forum tell you regarding their experiences in the mainstream, so it would stand to reason that you would have discounted such information coming from anyone other than the A.G. Bell types at that point in time, as well. Any of those Social Workers work with a large deaf population, or just a handful of students in a single mainstream school? Were the teachers certified and specialized TODs or just you generic special ed teachers with no training in deaf ed? Again, you discredit the experience and expertise of TODs and those professionals who focus on the deaf population contantly on this forum. In short, it is obvious that you did not seek complete information, but only that information which supported your obviously audist viewpoint. That is not a quest for information. It is a quest for justification.

If you are considering placing your child in the mainstream then not only should you constantly evaluate and monitor your child's progress and experiences but the bottomline is that the better your child's oral skills, the better her chances to create, build and maintain successful relationships with their peers who happen to be hearing.
Support that "bottom line" with evidence, because it is a statement that is completely and utterly false, not to mention audist in tone.

Also, having raised both a deaf and a hearing child, the issue of peer relationships and social/emotional issues relating to same makes no distinction between hearing and deaf. Virtually all kids, and especially girls, seem to experience a tremendous change in the middle school years regarding friends.

Again, please support that with statement with hard empirical evidence, because again, that statement is completely and utterly false, and a perfect example of the complete lack of accurrate information in your possession.
 
Shel and jillio - I agree. AVT sux. It is like torture for a child who cannot hear. That is why we never really followed it.


I/we have come to this decision sfter observing her peer relationships firsthand at school. (mainstreamed, only deaf child at this school- still deaf even with bi-lateral CIs) In the cafeteria she does not try to engage in conversation, too much background noise to filter. She gets along in the classroom but never really carries conversations with others at the apporpriate level. (She is second grade but we started her a year late) Her peers honestly seem to take on a caregiver role. She becomes frustrated due to inability to express herself. She doesn't act out at school (only when at home beats the crap out of little sis, who usually deserves it.LOL), instead she is withdrawn. That breaks my heart even more cuz when she is in her "comfort zone" (home) she chatters constantly.

SOOO, I am leaning towards home schooling, ASL, and immersion into the D/deaf community.


I must have missed it somewhere but how old is your child and what grade is she in at school?

Not a big fan of AVT either but if you are not utilizing that method then what oral speech and language therapy are you providing to your child so she can obtain the maximum benefits from her cis?
 
I must have missed it somewhere but how old is your child and what grade is she in at school?

Not a big fan of AVT either but if you are not utilizing that method then what oral speech and language therapy are you providing to your child so she can obtain the maximum benefits from her cis?

Speech is a seondary benefit of CI, and varies widely withion the individual. The primary benefit of CI is auditory function, and the primary benefit is also variable. Consequently, maximum benefit is also variable, and speech as a secondary effect, is not always a parent's primary focus.

The answers to your questions are throughout this thread and others.
 
In getting information and experience regarding these issues we turned to deaf adults, deaf teens, teachers and social workers those with both firsthand experience and the professional experience to discuss those issues with us.

Wow, that is an ironic statement given how you are treating the D/deaf people here and respecting our information and experiences...
 
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