Other people perspective AGAINST C.I. for the Deaf children

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Kalista said:
I love M.J. Bienvenu's perspective !!! :D I always enjoyed to seeing her at several at the Deaf conference.
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I agree...I love her perspective. She was one of my ASL instructors at Gally..I love her lectures on the Deaf culture part of my classes. I learned a lot from her. :)
 
shel90 said:
I agree...I love her perspective. She was one of my ASL instructors at Gally..I love her lectures on the Deaf culture part of my classes. I learned a lot from her. :)
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4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
 
vallee, I can undy being upset about your first point. It does seem like it's belittling the Holocaust by saying CI is basicly a Holocaust for deaf kids.
Hey, if hearing aids did not end deaf culture, there's NO reason whatsoever why CIs would.
Her other points are very valid. .....I mean just b/c a kid has oral skills, it doesn't mean that they are gonna be a sucess in the hearing world. Even many kids who are good at English have social emotional issues.
 
vallee said:
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
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I understand how you feel, I don't like all negative labels on anyone just because one doesn't like cochlear implants.

You got to remember that we (deafies) were labeled too in negatives-- pronounced us "deaf and dumb", How we were incapable of being taught, of learning, and how we don't have any reasonable thinking skills. :(
 
Ok I was able to sit down long enough without being interrupted to watch the whole video.

Here is my take...

I agree with the comments that CIs are a valuable tool but that it does not give deaf children language nor self-esteem.

I agree that all deaf children regardless of having CIs or not should be exposed to Deaf culture, other deaf children and Deaf adults.

What really bothered me was what the mother had said about her daughter who had been implanted. She said without her implants, she wouldnt be on the swim team and etc etc. That is a skewed perspective. Many deaf people have been able to do all those things her daughter can do WITHOUT an implant. I am a perfect example of one.

I really love the father of the non-implanted boy's view. He even admitted that sometimes Deaf adults know how to meet his child's needs better than he does. For that, I respect him cuz he is not claiming to be an expert. He showed respect for Deaf culture and the members' input and advice. That is impressive cuz rarely u see that.

This Vlog has made many good points.
 
vallee said:
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
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I havent said anything about the Holocaust so how is my comment to Kalista related to the Holocaust? All I was just explaining my experiences of being her student that was all.

However, about sel-esteem and failure in the hearing world..I do agree with her to a degree.
 
vallee said:
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
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I understand your perspective of hearing first hand accounts of the Holocaust. My mother was Jewish, and of German descent. I met many Holocaust survivors during my childhood, as well as those who lost loved ones to this genocide. And I am forever aware of the fact that, even though my father was not Jewish, I am considered to be Jewish by descent because my mother was Jewish, and bloodlines are determined matilinerally. Likewise, my son is considered to be Jewish because I am considered to be Jewish. My son is also deaf. Had we been alive in Germany during the years of the Holocaust, neither one of us would have had much of a chance of survival...me because of my Jewish descent, and my son for 2 reasons....Jewish descent and deafness. One or the other would have been enough to put his life at risk. Even Gentiles with disabilities were subjected to Hitler's attempts to create a pure race.

However, I do agree with M.J.'s analogy of comparing CI to the Holocaust. One can be seen as genocide; the other as ethnocide. And I am not offended in the least by her comparison, nor do I believe my Jewish relatives would be offended. She has in no way discounted the horror of the Holocaust, but has only used it to point out that it can easily happen again under a different guise...technology.
 
Huh? Jillo, I thought you WEREN'T against CIs. It's ORALISM that is the REAL ethnocide. (oh kids don't "need" sign, and they can just assimulate into the hearing world)
 
deafdyke said:
Huh? Jillo, I thought you WEREN'T against CIs. It's ORALISM that is the REAL ethnocide. (oh kids don't "need" sign, and they can just assimulate into the hearing world)
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I think it's because so many people who implant CIs in their children have no intention of letting their child learn sign or have contact with other deaf. I've seen quite a few posts from Parents with children who have CIs state that they're glad their child isn't part of the Deaf community.

However, it's up to Jillio to clarify her post.
 
deafdyke said:
Huh? Jillo, I thought you WEREN'T against CIs. It's ORALISM that is the REAL ethnocide. (oh kids don't "need" sign, and they can just assimulate into the hearing world)
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I am not against CIs, but that doesn't mean that I can't see the validity in M.J.'s analogy. And, I agree that oralism is the true culprit, and CI technology is a direct outgrowth of the the audist attitude that hearing is superior and preferable to deaf, and thus the increased push toward oralism that has been positively correlated with implantation.
 
deafskeptic said:
I think it's because so many people who implant CIs in their children have no intention of letting their child learn sign or have contact with other deaf. I've seen quite a few posts from Parents with children who have CIs state that they're glad their child isn't part of the Deaf community.

However, it's up to Jillio to clarify her post.
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Exactly. I believe in freedom of choice as far as CI is concerned. I concede that the devise has provided benefit to any number of people. I disagree with its use as an excuse to isolate a deaf child with a CI from ASL and the deaf community.
 
Oh that's very true.........but just wait til rick48 comes around.
deafskeptic, I think that a lot of those parents are very in denial about their kid's hearing issues. Like they have the attitude that if a kid doesn't "need" ASL or other special things (like Braille) the kid can be "normal"
 
deafdyke said:
Oh that's very true.........but just wait til rick48 comes around.
deafskeptic, I think that a lot of those parents are very in denial about their kid's hearing issues. Like they have the attitude that if a kid doesn't "need" ASL or other special things (like Braille) the kid can be "normal"
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**nodding agreement** And I'm sure when rick48 does come around he will refer to me as anti-CI, despite my clarification, as he always does. :lol:

Denial is a powerful influence. But the reason it is called denial is because it has nothing to do with reality!
 
deafdyke said:
Oh that's very true.........but just wait til rick48 comes around.
deafskeptic, I think that a lot of those parents are very in denial about their kid's hearing issues. Like they have the attitude that if a kid doesn't "need" ASL or other special things (like Braille) the kid can be "normal"
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Yep. I have the feeling Cloggy is in denial about the reality of Lotte's hearing issues despite the evidence around him; witness her language delays even if she's catching up..
 
I am not against seeing a child being implanted. I just don't see the child not leanring Sign Language... I don't mind if a parent wants to see the child to learn Oral English as their first language, but I do think the child need to learn some sort of Sign Language, doesn't matter if it is SEE or PSE or ASL. They just need some alternative language to communicate. To give that child an option when they get older to choose where they fit in.
 
deafskeptic said:
Yep. I have the feeling Cloggy is in denial about the reality of Lotte's hearing issues despite the evidence around him; witness her language delays even if she's catching up..
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Bingo.
 
Babyblue said:
I am not against seeing a child being implanted. I just don't see the child not leanring Sign Language... I don't mind if a parent wants to see the child to learn Oral English as their first language, but I do think the child need to learn some sort of Sign Language, doesn't matter if it is SEE or PSE or ASL. They just need some alternative language to communicate. To give that child an option when they get older to choose where they fit in.
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Amen! I have nothing against English but I want a language that's easily accessible to them.
 
Babyblue said:
Teach the child both and the child will let you know what is more accessible to them......
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In most cases, it will be sign that's more accessible as it's far more visible than English. Personally, if I had a deaf baby I'd want ASL to be her first language and I also don't want her signing like me. I want her to be a native ASLer.
 
I understand. If my child was deaf I would make sure that my child can sign ASL being from a deaf parents perspective.

If a hearing parent usually expects a child, with ten fingers and ten toes...and they expect them to hear. The hearing parent that has a deaf child world is shattered due to they do not understand why and what is going on.....and they decided to implant that child (because they are doing what they think is best for their child) Which is their right... and I don't think any parent would want an outsider telling them what to do with their child....would benefit from learning English and ASL.

Now Personally I'm HOH raised oral. 33 years old didn't learn ASL til 1988 when I was 16 years old... English is my first language and ASL is my Second. I'm not scared to say it... I can speak... I can sign...I may not hear everything that goes on... but I can communicate... I have the best of both worlds...I love my Deaf friends and I love my Hearing friends ... My deafness does not discriminate.
 
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