Oregon community college shooting, multiple casualties

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diehardbiker said:
Greedy for most part. They think all for themselves. Sad, school fail to educate the importance of respect and accept if being rejected. Nowadays younger generation seems to have trouble dealing with rejections.
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Agreed... Personally think it is from how they are growing up believing they are entitled to everything...
But it does not reach the root as to why, when they are denied, is their first response to adversity is to grab a gun and shoot them.
You peg it on the '60s... And this time frame does show a lot going on that affects this conversation... I do agree with your time stamp even though school shootings happened prior to this date.
 
diehardbiker said:
Greedy for most part. They think all for themselves. Sad, school fail to educate the importance of respect and accept if being rejected. Nowadays younger generation seems to have trouble dealing with rejections.
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I disagree, the school's job is to educate math, english and etc.. Not how a human being should be and to treat others.

That is job of parents and I think a lot of parents have failed their duty to teach their children respect and proper behavior.
 
And jealous too.

We all deal with these craps on daily basis, some not too bad while others that you may not want to know.

What I believe school could have done is educate that we can't have what we wanted every time in our society. Teaching the compromising and accept what it is and should be practiced on daily basis.

I do believe we will see more shooting in future, hopefully decline BUT we need to start find way to make changes and adapt the changes, and be patience as it takes time for the education to put in work, perhaps 40 years after the positive change has been made, the longer we wait, the more bad news coming up in horizon.

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, where I was born and raised, their government have made campaign recently regard to education, "pay now or pay later" education campaign, what that means is that they are now looking into another education reform, and invest more in education because they believe it is cheaper to invest in earlier education than later in prison.

Jezie said:
Agreed... Personally think it is from how they are growing up believing they are entitled to everything...
But it does not reach the root as to why, when they are denied, is their first response to adversity is to grab a gun and shoot them.
You peg it on the '60s... And this time frame does show a lot going on that affects this conversation... I do agree with your time stamp even though school shootings happened prior to this date.
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Another thing to keep in mind, prior to 70's there have been school prayers and I kinda think it is great way to build morale and respect, but since it was banned in 70's til now... no school prayer due to religious conflicts, now that morale education has been taken out of equation and replace with nothing BUT I, Me, Myself, i sm, etc BAM! more get pissed off than ever. If had these school prayer replaced with respect and unity including teaching the values of humanity instead of religious, which would paid off handsomely down the road.
 
diehardbiker said:
And jealous too.

We all deal with these craps on daily basis, some not too bad while others that you may not want to know.

What I believe school could have done is educate that we can't have what we wanted every time in our society. Teaching the compromising and accept what it is and should be practiced on daily basis.

I do believe we will see more shooting in future, hopefully decline BUT we need to start find way to make changes and adapt the changes, and be patience as it takes time for the education to put in work, perhaps 40 years after the positive change has been made, the longer we wait, the more bad news coming up in horizon.

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, where I was born and raised, their government have made campaign recently regard to education, "pay now or pay later" education campaign, what that means is that they are now looking into another education reform, and invest more in education because they believe it is cheaper to invest in earlier education than later in prison.
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Jealousy is an emotional response that humans do not have a monopoly on, so it is hard for me to agree... If anything I would see it as a by product of entitlement...

Education... I see where you are going with this, but it is hard for me to say that I agree... Education to me brings the schools to mind. To me, this is a behavior that grows in the child from the cradle. What does the child see, hear, touch, how does the adults and peers handle issues, what movie, music, games and books does a child deal with; so on and so forth. While I am not on to just point to the media, these things tell the child what is and is not acceptable and gives them their moral measuring stick. We have so much corruption and violence in almost everything that childern are desensitized to it and even expect it...
 
Secretblend said:
I disagree, the school's job is to educate math, english and etc.. Not how a human being should be and to treat others.

That is job of parents and I think a lot of parents have failed their duty to teach their children respect and proper behavior.
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I agree education starts at home... But the state keeps trying to take the power from the parents... By decreasing the abilities of parents to do the one thing they are supposed to... Parent. In the south, I can snatch my kid by the arm and soundly spank him and a cop will watch and give me a nod afterward (running into the street) . Yet, in Colorado I ran my child (laps around yard for stealing and getting off bus too early and crossing a very busy road, busy day for my crazy kid lol) and a cop questioned every aspect of what I was doing, why, what training did I have, did I know his medical issues, what precautions was I taking so on and so forth... Thus where is education to come from if more and more parents abilty is taken. If I did not have the proper training to run my child rhey would have taken him... If I spanked him they would have taken him... Parents are told we are to tell the child that their actions hurt our feelings (actually parenting class and no bull) while this would work on my second son, my first pays it no mind. I am not saying it is not a good tool to use, but for many things and at certain points of development it just will not work.
We need to give the ability to the parents to properly parent and teach them how to actually be a parent.
 
Question, how can 1 or 2 child(ren) living at home learn how to interact in society? There is not enough peer pressures at home as in school. It is all about learning how to deal with peer pressure in society, there isn't much peer pressure at home as compared as at school. Most of these mass shooter couldn't handle peer pressure, thinking shooting and suicide a way out. Terrible, really terrible way of telling others "Fawk off, I have had enuff of peer pressure shyt". Even though I see this as stupid way of dealing with peer pressures.

Now back to this topic, the lucky one, why did he survived and not shot by shooter? This is telling me that the shooter knew this guy with glasses is nerd and had same issues as he had dealt with and left him to survive.
 
Yeah, I know what you mean. Anything is possible. Or even worse a decoy for other university. This could eat up Federal manpower whenever responding terror threats of any kind... Think about it. SMH

Ban Sharpie, I guess :hmm:

Jezie said:
Okay... I play devil's advocate... These are schools... There is a mass shooting... Little Timmy is in the loo and bored... Or maybe he wants to see what happens or heck just wants to not be at school... He has a sharpie in his pocket... A few scribbles latter and he walks away...
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diehardbiker said:
Yeah, I know what you mean. Anything is possible. Or even worse a decoy for other university. This could eat up Federal manpower whenever responding terror threats of any kind... Think about it. SMH

Ban Sharpie, I guess :hmm:
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Darned if you do and Darned if you don't though...
Banning everything will not work though...
Hmm... Would say soundly beating the kid... But this is college... And oddly after about 7 or 8 I do not believe in spanking... College... Hmm... Make them clean every wall, door, and window...
But would have to find out who it was first.
Honestly though, read somewhere recently about Japanese schools having students clean the schools and not janitors... This seems like an awesome idea to me. Chores are important for childern and having them in school seems like a multifaceted benefit...
 
Jezie said:
Darned if you do and Darned if you don't though...
Banning everything will not work though...
Hmm... Would say soundly beating the kid... But this is college... And oddly after about 7 or 8 I do not believe in spanking... College... Hmm... Make them clean every wall, door, and window...
But would have to find out who it was first.
Honestly though, read somewhere recently about Japanese schools having students clean the schools and not janitors... This seems like an awesome idea to me. Chores are important for childern and having them in school seems like a multifaceted benefit...
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I do not believe in spanking for most part. I have reserved spanking for cases where it warrants enough for spanking (Situation that MAY harm my child), that is where I rather have my child hurt by red butt than pay visit at Emergency room for broken elbow due to stupidity. Spanking should be stopped after 5 or 6 years old. But again it really depends on each kids, no two child are same.

And what you mentioned about school in Japanese, exactly that is what I am talking about. Teaching about responsibilities, respect others which will in long term have positive impact in every direct of lives. That will also have lasting impact on future career.

Lastly, I am not denying that education begins at home, but it is not always possible, many born without parents, divorced parents, into substance abuse household, I can go on but you know what I mean. Every parents have their own battles include their death for all we might not be aware of.
 
diehardbiker said:
Greedy for most part. They think all for themselves. Sad, school fail to educate the importance of respect and accept if being rejected. Nowadays younger generation seems to have trouble dealing with rejections.
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As I said before this is the job of the parents, not the schools, if you haven't taught your child about respecting others and their property and that you don't win all the time by the time they have entered kindergarten, you might as well forget about it.
 
Jezie said:
Wait... Hello... I have had two guns stolen from me... They were in a locked house with an alarm in a locked safe and bolted to the ground... I was out of town for my daughter's funeral... So, by your standard I should have been killed by the state or sued because I should be held liable for the assisting in the crimes committed with my guns... Hmm... A domestic male bovine's excrement...
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And how did they get into the safe? Was it a real safe or one of the tin can types they sell at gun stores? I have friends who have had safes like that and when I showed them how easy they can be cut opened they couldn't believe it. And I cut them open with a cordless grinder and it took less than 5 minutes!
 
diehardbiker said:
Question, how can 1 or 2 child(ren) living at home learn how to interact in society? There is not enough peer pressures at home as in school. It is all about learning how to deal with peer pressure in society, there isn't much peer pressure at home as compared as at school. Most of these mass shooter couldn't handle peer pressure, thinking shooting and suicide a way out. Terrible, really terrible way of telling others "Fawk off, I have had enuff of peer pressure shyt". Even though I see this as stupid way of dealing with peer pressures.

Now back to this topic, the lucky one, why did he survived and not shot by shooter? This is telling me that the shooter knew this guy with glasses is nerd and had same issues as he had dealt with and left him to survive.
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Sorry, but I have friends who were only children, but their parents taught them to respect people and their property and they treat people as they would want to be treated. The reason they are like this is their parents took their job seriously and didn't leave it up to the schools to teach their child right from wrong.

Most of the hatred that these killers learn comes from how they were treated by society and or the kids at school because they were different and they finally snap.
 
diehardbiker said:
Please keep in mind, guns can be stolen ANYWHERE in the world, and sold overseas all the time, which makes it impossible controlling black market.

Let me tell you this there was a rarity of school shooting before the reform of education program back in 1972, and right before that education reform cops had shoot students in Kent University back in late 60's don't forget it and that is government agencies that shot innocents to begin with. After the education reform was complete, BOOM! we saw much more mass shooting and killing. Doesn't this paint whats behind these shooting, eh?
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You don't think the reduction in the number of mental institutions and mental health availability has had something to do with it. Ronald Reagan began shutting down the mental institutions in CA in 1966. Also lets not forget the explosion in the number of children with autism either or learning disabilities. We can even take it further, how about the elimination of tracking kids in schools and having programs that taught them skills like industrial arts, business skills, etc. that they could use if they weren't or didn't score well academically. All these things have happened since 1972.
 
diehardbiker said:
I do not believe in spanking for most part. I have reserved spanking for cases where it warrants enough for spanking (Situation that MAY harm my child), that is where I rather have my child hurt by red butt than pay visit at Emergency room for broken elbow due to stupidity. Spanking should be stopped after 5 or 6 years old. But again it really depends on each kids, no two child are same.

And what you mentioned about school in Japanese, exactly that is what I am talking about. Teaching about responsibilities, respect others which will in long term have positive impact in every direct of lives. That will also have lasting impact on future career.

Lastly, I am not denying that education begins at home, but it is not always possible, many born without parents, divorced parents, into substance abuse household, I can go on but you know what I mean. Every parents have their own battles include their death for all we might not be aware of.
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I love your statement about spanking... and completely agree... I had the higher age because it seems like a good overall end age. By 8 a child has reasoning generally established also at this age alternative measures I find are always way better... I honestly am not sure when I stopped spanking mine... But it was before 8... Hmm... Anyways to your post I also agree here... There are struggles for both sides... The child and pareng(s) or what is passing as a parental unit... Sometimes the education a child receives at home could lead them down the wrong path, but social influences can turn the child around. Which is why I say that I got what you were saying about education... The school system can help... But as it stands now... No, it is more of a hindrance...
 
seb said:
And how did they get into the safe? Was it a real safe or one of the tin can types they sell at gun stores? I have friends who have had safes like that and when I showed them how easy they can be cut opened they couldn't believe it. And I cut them open with a cordless grinder and it took less than 5 minutes!
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I really dislike assumptions... more often then not they are wrong.
Yes, surprisingly enough I got the safe at a store... No, it was not a bank vault, it was a standard gun safe. I will not shell out tens of thousands of dollars for something else that any determined criminal wants to get into can.
The downfall of being friends with cons and studying security... You learn it is all worthless...
Good on you for being able to get into one in five minutes... I can think of some that would laugh at your time and trouble...
 
seb said:
You don't think the reduction in the number of mental institutions and mental health availability has had something to do with it. Ronald Reagan began shutting down the mental institutions in CA in 1966. Also lets not forget the explosion in the number of children with autism either or learning disabilities. We can even take it further, how about the elimination of tracking kids in schools and having programs that taught them skills like industrial arts, business skills, etc. that they could use if they weren't or didn't score well academically. All these things have happened since 1972.
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Yes, this is one of causes that I have mentioned earlier.
 
seb said:
And how did they get into the safe? Was it a real safe or one of the tin can types they sell at gun stores? I have friends who have had safes like that and when I showed them how easy they can be cut opened they couldn't believe it. And I cut them open with a cordless grinder and it took less than 5 minutes!
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What kind of safe is it that it got bolt in floor? It can't be cheap one.

Still regardless, anyone can steal anything, there have been history of people successfully stole the ATM machine, you know ATM machines is very heavy and rigid, yet people find way to get in. Just like "if there is a will, there is an A"

I know right now, its getting harder to steal the ATM machine due to GPS being used nowadays.
 
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