Oralism eradicating ASL in the near future?

well, well
i share similar views as DD's last entry, and also wish to add that not only the lack of options which we as young kids in the past (and still some now? I am sure the 'lack of options' still prevail -only in disguised form which the hearies (teachers, and other sorts of authority figures/groups will try engineer these schooling programs in order to prove the oralism is best way to go, in long run. As they would justify that particular arrogant view by saying whether as the youngest (elementary/primary school) the importance is stressed on preparation for language learning (so they are so-called open minded about attaching sign lanaguges but their real agenda is still considered as a means to the ends for English...) or students moving on up to the high school level as preparation for life after leaving school(again the real concern is understanding English..)

Sorry for such a convoluted introduction, however back on track, to add what else have we indeed missed, for that I am one of the unlucky one, having missed out alot on sign language thanks for oralism, the damage is not only done to my rights for the language which I should have not missed out on, but also the socialisation itself.

Being strangled linguisitically as a child also meant i have to endure being an outcast in the hearing classrooms (and out). I was a 'successful' oralist pupil that teachers would rave oo about too, little did I know was that it was all part of the assimilation process that had nothing to do with including me in the community nor had it any real benefits. I got picked on, made fun of, always slow, always late on classwork, teachers always had to tell me afterwards explaining to the class (that doesnt make me feel good, though I needed to know whats going on of course, but this niggling bits keeps reminding me , I'm Different and I needed special treatment - I absolutely hated that.

Worst still, I resent that I had to miss out or fall so far behind in the real education that kids learn (not from classroom) but from the peers which shapes your personality and defines your social destiny for the rest of your life.

Buffulo said an interesting piece about confidence, I really like that comment, I wonder if this to do with how successful 'confidence tricks' were employed by psychological techniques? never mind about the technicality, but it sure would be a worthwhile aspect to explore (does any one do psychology? (I dont) but yeah , anyone who does, should take note of buffulo's startling remark.

For a long time in up till my early 20's I was 'all very thankful for speech' and all that bullshit, I was blind to the fact these praises are only from hearies and hearing people who does not esteem the real Deaf people, that is the real personality, the real unrestrained people of the eye and hands in which they are intended to be. Modifications in mode of communications or use of devices are devised solely for the interests of hearing people. They do not like Deaf people, and wish to eradicate the existence of it.
Recently I have read about human rights in China, it is non existence - not only in the sense of 'civil rights' as we all know in the west, but also the rights to THINK for themselves !!! (freedom of speech DOES NOT exist in China , period 1 try at that, you'd face the the shooting gallery, or if lucky a long jail sentence, no joke), the whole indoctrinatin in China is unbelievable, the whole aspects of 'well-being' is NOT on the indivdual like physical health well being or being mentally sound, according to the Chinese governments well-being is about giving the rights for the National to reform from feudalism (yes China was that far behind us right up til 1949 when they became a Communist country merging Maoist and Marxist philosophies together. The same sort of dedication to put forth ones own life for the betterment of society is the exactly same thing happening in oralism , Deaf children/adult compromising themselves to 'better themselves' to be more hearing to create a 'better society' all becuase sign language is considered as a illness, an illness not only to the deaf individuals, but also to society. The account of the Chinese oppression which i have just shared has reminds me of that it took a brave or enlightened Chinese person to speak up about this, conformity is a 'must for survival' over there or you'd be shot for 'treason' or such, whereas a Deaf person who is well to do, and successful to fit in the hearing society doesnt dare to admit for similar reason, survival, ok not so much a life or death type of survival but approval/disapproval can mean a difference in inclusion or ostracism.

A deaf person speaking about how great their own speech are, to me is a sign of arrogance, not only that, but also as a fool, a fool which chose conformity for approval in society. Moreso I think the hearing society which include professionals whose 'helped you' such as audiologist, teachers, signficant others such as spouses, siblings, relatives, and freinds just praises such a deaf person who is a hearie (hearing wanna-be) as a worthy, deserving hearing-impaired (disabled) person (oh they often DENY the disabled part as well) and in some strange way uses 'hearing=impaired' not onlyyo mean something inferior about their hearing but also to FOOL them (a docile hearing impaired person) into thinking they are INCLUDED as a hearing-speaking SOCIETY so to feel good. the Feel good factor does not only belong to the hearing-impaired person in question but also those around them, SO they can DENY 'Deafness' , and the multitudes of various denials associated with 'deafness'. Sorry I could not explain everything in here, it does get rather lengthy and sometimes I just couldnt careless to wanna bore the shit out of you.

The main point is that, I hate it when a deaf person says, Im not Deaf, I dont sign, I dont need to, i have wonderful speech, you see, this is the same as a half-paralysised person who can use one leg and really needs a wheel chairs but insists he/she is not disabled and uses crunches insteead (hearing aids is a form of crunches you might add) and says I am not disabled (but cant get work, still faces discrimnation just like any other disabled persons would) I dont use a wheel chair (ashamed of that? its like a deaf person ashamed to use sign) I can [nearly] walk , oh but they cant run, cant use the stairs, and thus still miss out of the convenience as a real walkers enjoy.

I also loathe it when a Deaf (or disabled person) denys themselves and to themselves, and in doing so became a puppet to the "normal school of thoughts", its just sick.

I empathise with alot of d/Deaf people who loathes the 'hearing xxxxx,' and because they (Deaf) are telling the truth, as it is, their lives isnt rose of bed, the inequality is real, and most of all they still (as long as they do) have a real sense of humour.

It takes different sense of maturity to own up what life is really like and be real. That's what I value, not some wanna-be whos pretends to be greater than themselves or worse, so vain that they can't see out of their noses, so life is harder but its raw and truthful. why lie and be living in the fakedom? its just downright pathetic to appease everyone.
 
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I guess it will just have to remain one of the great mysteries of the world

That's exaclty what the audists want you to say, as long as they have someone on their side, they will continue to justify their 'endeavenour'. It's not a 'great mystery' you're not THAT bloody special, you jsut happen to have 'the right ingredients' that helped to facilitate oralism, audiologicaly 'high' and 'even' to acquire 'intelligiable speech' perceptions with your aids, from the right type of residual hearing, personality-wise you may be docile in classrooms, a hard worker, have the 'right sort' of family background, even the the right sort of 'cultural capital' (read Pierre Bourdieu), so if you consider all the above, you'd hardy think its a 'great mystery', we all have seen from time to time, some (not just deaf) disabled people (and Deaf), says they are freaks of nature, and so and so, its almost liken to be annouced you're some sort of Supercrip, and that according to the scholars within Disabled People's Studies feild, are the very ones who ends up oppressing their own kinds (while getting praises for being a 'fighter' as a disabled person. This is unneeded and it is a subtle form of societal legalised treason.

Oppressors, audist alike thrive on having such persons to speaks miracles of their deeds, which in truth aren't moreso I can not understand why some people continued to believe so that it is while 'we all have to be grateful' for what limits we have, my ASS !!

Hearing people dont want us to know what we're missing out on, like whats it like to have a [way] better job, better pay, better social life, more interesting [more expensive] holidays, more clue and knowledge about what is on the news, what does it concern them? (they only ask or tell us what we should be concerned with] and all this IS part of being oppressed, its not just about HAVING a job, but HAVE A LIFE that you REALLY wanted. The whole nitty gritty bits, the whole raw deal. "we' Had to be looked after, interpreters are all the same too, they learn signs from us, and yet later on comes back and CHARGE us exhorbiant fees (or institutions , such as courts, hospitals, or welfare offices) to rip us off, while most of us Deaf havent seen or felt a slight change.

So they say, (sic) someone else is worse off' I mean come on, this is almost pushing for more ignorance of the reality of which ways the society deals with us, different people, to be operating on a cleansing process, which the focus is on the individual, in concern to transform the individual rather than the environment, it is true that all this is based on commonsense than something consciously constructed by anyone.

This is why it is so damn hard or seemingly near impossible to yeild these sort of change in society to wich would accomodate us Deaf people in a much better, fairer way, it is not the blocks, but it is the structure of society that is hard to dismantle.

Like, HOW do we proceed to change the way society behaves towards us d/Deaf people? Granted, we have sign language politics, CI vesus SL debates, and so forth, but thats got nothing to do with how the social structure organises itself, which informs the way ordinary people THINK.

Now, That is the great mystery.
 
Hmmmm.... horrible to have to think about something like that.

I don't think oralism will destroy ASL in the near future any more than SEE or cued speech would. ASL is pretty widely spoken and has off-shoot languages, even Thai Sign is supposed to be from ASL. ASL also has many many more speakers than BSL. I think it'll be harder for BSL and Japanese Sign to survive than ASL in the long run.

I am, however a little more concerned, but at the same time interested in what oralism, the internet, and lack of interests in Deaf clubs with many Deaf people recently (at least in my area) will do to Deaf culture. I'd hate for Deaf culture to die out, but Deaf culture where I live seems to becoming more of a 'Signing Culture'.

Which reminds me, on Wednesday just gone, there was a programme on TV, and it had 2 deaf parents, who were mainstreamed, and they'd chosen to get their children implanted with cochlear implants on both sides. Neither of them signed throughout; though I think I saw them signing a little to their kid.
 
I just want to say that with my hearing loss (in the military) progressively got worse over the years after I exited the Army. OK,,, well hearing aides do not work for me. I did look into the CI ,,the VA told me no,,I am NOT profoundly deaf. Well, I have been attending HLAA (SHHH) for over 4 years now and some my HOH friends got CI's or they use hearing aides...they always told me I talk too loud and I tell them they talk too low for me.
Ok,, a year ago, I began to learn sign language and I have a HOH friend who I always had difficulty understanding cuz she uses hearing aides and speaks low,,,well, last night we got together after a long time of not seeing one another and I used sign with her and she with me and OMG,,,,it was like easy as pie now to communicate!!!
So, what I am mentioning here,, those with CI... I believe that since 100 percent comm. is not heard that knowing and using ASL is going to be so helpful in making sure they understand comm. with others that are deaf, HOH and hearing (that know sign)... thats just my opinion....cuz remember it's the hearing loss that is effected,,,not their sight and when using sign language... you are able to make sure everything is understood even if you are using speaking or hearing words (or miss some words). This is just my personal experience and opinion. :ugh3:
 
Hmmmm.... horrible to have to think about something like that.

I don't think oralism will destroy ASL in the near future any more than SEE or cued speech would. ASL is pretty widely spoken and has off-shoot languages, even Thai Sign is supposed to be from ASL. ASL also has many many more speakers than BSL. I think it'll be harder for BSL and Japanese Sign to survive than ASL in the long run.

I am, however a little more concerned, but at the same time interested in what oralism, the internet, and lack of interests in Deaf clubs with many Deaf people recently (at least in my area) will do to Deaf culture. I'd hate for Deaf culture to die out, but Deaf culture where I live seems to becoming more of a 'Signing Culture'.

Which reminds me, on Wednesday just gone, there was a programme on TV, and it had 2 deaf parents, who were mainstreamed, and they'd chosen to get their children implanted with cochlear implants on both sides. Neither of them signed throughout; though I think I saw them signing a little to their kid.

I think Deaf Clubs has declined in recent years because they no longer became as necessary for Deaf to have contact with each other. Prior to the days of easy email access, easy pager access, TTY's, etc. Deaf Clubs served as the mechanism for Deaf people to have contact with each other. It was the only means they had. With so many communication options available
today, the need for a central gathering place has been reduced. However, the need for contact with each other hasn't. There are just different means for achieving that contact today. Look how many people come to this forum looking for initial contact with other Deaf/deaf, because by the circumstances of their early life, they were denied that. They seek that contact out through this forum. In the past, their only alternative would have been a Deaf Club. I don't think the decline of Deaf Clubs has really weakened the ties in the Deaf community. It has simply changed the face of the contact that is still desired and necessary.
 
I just want to say that with my hearing loss (in the military) progressively got worse over the years after I exited the Army. OK,,, well hearing aides do not work for me. I did look into the CI ,,the VA told me no,,I am NOT profoundly deaf. Well, I have been attending HLAA (SHHH) for over 4 years now and some my HOH friends got CI's or they use hearing aides...they always told me I talk too loud and I tell them they talk too low for me.
Ok,, a year ago, I began to learn sign language and I have a HOH friend who I always had difficulty understanding cuz she uses hearing aides and speaks low,,,well, last night we got together after a long time of not seeing one another and I used sign with her and she with me and OMG,,,,it was like easy as pie now to communicate!!!
So, what I am mentioning here,, those with CI... I believe that since 100 percent comm. is not heard that knowing and using ASL is going to be so helpful in making sure they understand comm. with others that are deaf, HOH and hearing (that know sign)... thats just my opinion....cuz remember it's the hearing loss that is effected,,,not their sight and when using sign language... you are able to make sure everything is understood even if you are using speaking or hearing words (or miss some words). This is just my personal experience and opinion. :ugh3:

Glad to hear that your experience with your friend was so enlightening. That is what I and others keep trying to say: ASL offers 100% access to communication. Nothing else can make that claim.
 
I just want to say that with my hearing loss (in the military) progressively got worse over the years after I exited the Army. OK,,, well hearing aides do not work for me. I did look into the CI ,,the VA told me no,,I am NOT profoundly deaf. Well, I have been attending HLAA (SHHH) for over 4 years now and some my HOH friends got CI's or they use hearing aides...they always told me I talk too loud and I tell them they talk too low for me.
Ok,, a year ago, I began to learn sign language and I have a HOH friend who I always had difficulty understanding cuz she uses hearing aides and speaks low,,,well, last night we got together after a long time of not seeing one another and I used sign with her and she with me and OMG,,,,it was like easy as pie now to communicate!!!
So, what I am mentioning here,, those with CI... I believe that since 100 percent comm. is not heard that knowing and using ASL is going to be so helpful in making sure they understand comm. with others that are deaf, HOH and hearing (that know sign)... thats just my opinion....cuz remember it's the hearing loss that is effected,,,not their sight and when using sign language... you are able to make sure everything is understood even if you are using speaking or hearing words (or miss some words). This is just my personal experience and opinion. :ugh3:


Tell me about it...that was the reaction I had when I learned ASL.
 
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