Observation

jillio

jillio

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It would seem that, when research is presented regarding educational consequences of various placements for deaf children, there are a few that have difficulty understanding that the research applies to the majority. That means, simply, that this is what is found in the majority of the children. In any situation, there is always an exception to the rule, so the research does not apply to any one child in particular, but to the majority of children. Likewise the research done on parent / child relationships and the influence of communication choices on such apply to the majority of parents and children, not to any one child specifically. Therefore, when research is cited, it is a complete misunderstanding to apply it personally to oneself or one's child and become offended. It is simply a statement of what occurs in the majority. One cannot become offended by that, as generalization to the majority is not a personal statement. It is a statement about the majority.

Therefore, in order to claim that the research findings are wrong, one must use research conducted on a population representative of the majority. It is inappropriate to state, "This is so wrong, because my child......" You cannot use a singular case to dispute what is true for the majority. Study of a single subject is a case study, and it is applicable only to the subject of that case study, not the majority.

Likewise, it is inapproriate to take offense at the findings for the majority on a personal level. The findings are what they are, and are meant to guide decisions and inform of consequences when certain variables are in place. They educate regarding the probability of what will occur, to some degree or other, in a person who is placed in that particular situation with certain variables in place. Change one variable, and the probability changes for the individual. However, that does not, in any way, affect what has been found for the majority.

So, in short.....it is absurd and overly defensive to take that which is true for the majority as a personal insult toward yourself and your child. It is just as absurd to attempt to refute the literature by citing the personal, anecdotal experience of yourself and your child. Not only is that experience biased, it is simply not generalizable to the majority. It is not objective, and variables are not controlled for.

I see this occurring a lot, and it has become extremely distracting to productive discussions regarding appropriate and beneficial educational placements and cognitive consequences of communication choices. In order for deaf ed to improve, we must use the information that is true for the majority, and we must be able to discuss these findings that hold true for the majority without constant distractions of things like "That is wrong. because my child....."

It also needs to be understood that when something holds true for the majority, and you oppose those consequences based on the variables included in the research, it is a simply fact that by opposing such in your decisions, you increase the risk of experiencing the consequences cited. In other words, it is much more probable that you and / or your child will fit into the majority than it is likely that your child is going to be an outlier. Simple statistics. There are more that fit into the majority. That is why it is called the majority. If one is willing to accept that risk, then that is a risk they take. It does not mean that the research is not valid. Simply saying "I don't believe it." does not invalidate the findings for the majority, nor the probability that an individual has for fitting into the majority rather than being an outlier. So, rather than attempting to invalidate research based on the majority by throwing out personal and non-objective case studies, the appropriate response would be, "That may be true for the majority. But I am willing to accept that risk in making my own decisions."
IMO.
 
So.......... the research applies for the minority of people?
 
I kid I kid... :)

Unfortunately, in AD, research is also dismissed as being biased. Yes it applies for the majority.... but the majority of kids from a CERTAIN school. Not the majority of the population.

So, no one can win.
 
Going to be pretty boring if we just have to read uncited studies that apply to the majority and can't drag in any argument.

That would require a thread entitled, Dr. Jillio tells about how the majority will thrive, and you had better not argue!
 
Bottesini said:
Going to be pretty boring if we just have to read uncited studies that apply to the majority and can't drag in any argument.

That would require a thread entitled, Dr. Jillio tells about how the majority will thrive, and you had better not argue!
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Actually, no. It would require actually reading the research done by the researchers. Very few seem to be willing to actually do that and remain objective regarding the findings.

You are correct. It would greatly reduce the arguments and the offended feelings some have. I see that as a positive. However, there are always those that thrive on drama and will always find something personal to be offended about in any situation. The goal should be discussion...not argument. But in order to discuss the findings one has to be able to be objective and give validity to the research whether they personally agree with the findings as applied to their own situation or not.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I kid I kid... :)

Unfortunately, in AD, research is also dismissed as being biased. Yes it applies for the majority.... but the majority of kids from a CERTAIN school. Not the majority of the population.

So, no one can win.
Click to expand...

If one is going to properly evaluate the research, one must also look at the limitations. That is why the limitations are always published in any research report, and the methodology and population are always described. Unfortunately, we run into cases of people not reading beyond an abstract, or just finding singular sentences and taking them totally out of context.
 
jillio said:
Actually, no. It would require actually reading the research done by the researchers. Very few seem to be willing to actually do that and remain objective regarding the findings.

You are correct. It would greatly reduce the arguments and the offended feelings some have. I see that as a positive. However, there are always those that thrive on drama and will always find something personal to be offended about in any situation. The goal should be discussion...not argument. But in order to discuss the findings one has to be able to be objective and give validity to the research whether they personally agree with the findings as applied to their own situation or not.
Click to expand...

My own thought in a rational moment, would be if one sees another getting overwrought, just take a deep breathe and step back for a while until they regain control.

(And yes, attempting to follow my own advice. ) :)
 
Bottesini said:
My own thought in a rational moment, would be if one sees another getting overwrought, just take a deep breathe and step back for a while until they regain control.

(And yes, attempting to follow my own advice. ) :)
Click to expand...

And what of the situation where someone is constantly overwrought?

I see your point, but if someone is getting upset by a discussion, then it is their responsibility to remove themselves from that discussion. For another to change themselves just because one person doesn't like something would be tatamount to refusing to use sign because another doesn't like it. If someone becomes upset, it is their issue to deal with, not everyone else's. Especially when one becomes upset based on a misinterpretation of something that was written.

I have seen members attempt to step back. But the one who is upset insists on carrying it on and then projecting it into everything else around.

Of course, that is my experience and my opinion.
 
Yes, a study may apply to the majority, but that does not mean that it must apply to every single child. Clearly there is a minority, or you would simply say ALL.

As for studies, they are a dime a dozen. You have studies that say one thing, I have studies that say another. Even your beloved Maarschalk say that by college it is all a wash (including kids who are native ASL users).

So, instead of trying to convince people that their way is wrong, spend your time helping people who have no idea what to do and need information. Or better yet, instead of trying to damage the other side, build up YOUR side, show the benefits of ASL rather than trying to tear down listening and spoken language. Explain to parents why they should include ASL rather than telling them their child will be permanently damaged if they choose spoken language. Be inviting and supportive rather than angry, bitter and hurtful.

Just a thought, take it or leave it.
 
jillio said:
If one is going to properly evaluate the research, one must also look at the limitations. That is why the limitations are always published in any research report, and the methodology and population are always described. Unfortunately, we run into cases of people not reading beyond an abstract, or just finding singular sentences and taking them totally out of context.
Click to expand...

Has anyone ever commented to you that the way you present your opinions is not totally condusive to everyone's understanding...smile No really, please remember every study and all research is funded by a group, organization or
3rd party with specific interest in the outcome..that's a fact! So...speaking up for yourself or anyone in the minority of an outcome is a GOOD thing! It keeps things open for discussion...and communication is what we are talking about.:wave:
 
Yea, I need to work on being objective when it comes to Deaf education. It gets hard when I feel as if my experiences in the Deaf ed field gets dismissed such as for example, "your views are skewed because you only see kids who have failed so and so." Then, I take it personal because it is something I feel strongly about. Just a sensitive topic for me because of what I am seeing out there.

:)
 
MidnightSun said:
Has anyone ever commented to you that the way you present your opinions is not totally condusive to everyone's understanding...smile No really, please remember every study and all research is funded by a group, organization or
3rd party with specific interest in the outcome..that's a fact! So...speaking up for yourself or anyone in the minority of an outcome is a GOOD thing! It keeps things open for discussion...and communication is what we are talking about.:wave:
Click to expand...

Yes, that has been presented to me, and when I offered to change the way I write I was asked to please continue the way I was because people found it to be challenging and a learning situation for them. I complied with that request.

The amount of bias in a study is variable depending on the research design. And bias is accounted for in the limitations, or by reading the methodogy sections of the report. Additionally, I read the research that would appear to support the other side, as well. I don't limit myself to that which supports the addition of sign or a bi-bi ed placement. I read it all.

I agree that discussion is productive. However, "Not me!! Not my kid!! That is soooo wrong!! and "How the hell would you know??" is counter productive to discussion. As is the old challenge, "Prove it!" Because no matter how many times various studies are cited, it always results in the same above response.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I need to work on being objective when it comes to Deaf education. It gets hard when I feel as if my experiences in the Deaf ed field gets dismissed such as for example, "your views are skewed because you only see kids who have failed so and so." Then, I take it personal because it is something I feel strongly about. Just a sensitive topic for me because of what I am seeing out there.

:)
Click to expand...

We all have our passions. Yours and mine happen to be deaf kids. However, you have first hand experience with deaf ed, and I have second hand experience with deaf ed. And we both have volumes of research and anecdotal evidence from others who have experienced deaf ed first hand to support what we say. When your position can be supported with that much research and anecdote, it greatly reduces any amount of influence our personal bias has.

Like you, I hate to hear "The only kids you see have failed." No they haven't. The educational system, and very often the medical establishment, has failed to address their needs appropriately. I see kids that amaze me every single day. It is amazing that they have survived and managed to do as well as they have given the huge obstacles that have been put in their way. These kids are bright and adaptive and resourceful. It is a shame that they have to use these great skills to get by when they could be using them to excel if they have the proper environment.
 
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