Obama Proposes Longer School Days, Extended School Year

[jillio]

just a question, some mentioned about forgotten lesson due to summer and having to teach it all over again, don't you think that is a good thing? I think it is because it will help them remember in the long term. if they decided not to reteach it, and they moved on to another subject, would they just forget anyway?

Chances are no. If a child is using the information they are taught on a consistent basis, it reinforces the learning and leads to long term memory of the information. Building on prior concepts is what causes the information to become imbedded.

 

[jillio]

That's interesting...

I had a summer school to study in algebra. I enjoyed it. I had some jobs in the past, and I never use the algebra. I just think that it wasted my time.

You've never had a job where you use problem solving skills? While most people won't actually be working algebraic equations in their work or everyday lives, the quantitative skills that lead to cognitive thinking related to problem solving are something that everyone uses.

 

[jillio]

then tell me what's the purpose for Department of Education? What's next? President managing Immigration system in place of INS? managing our law enforcement system in place of Attorney General?

Obama - your job is to run the country, not micromanage the country. the country's too big for you to deal with in a very short time. that's why you have Secretary of ----. Appoint them and count on them. thus concludes your introductory management course for the night

Beside.... seems like there's a lot of finger-pointing at politicians, schools, and system for education failure. How about.... PARENTS? They're treating our teachers like babysitters, nanny, etc. I think the parents need to step up and actually do their part. THEN we can talk about education.

Good illustration of why you are not employed by the federal government in any sort of an advisory position.

 

[naisho]

To make things easier, hopefully they are taking baby steps, not implementing any immediate plans after the proposal is thought over.

The Dept. of Ed. should attempt to first make extended day courses/classes optional, or a "seventh/+1 period" (for those who do six) optional for the children at the school. This way nothing is mandatory.

The parents who want their kids not to have extra class have that choice to have them go home or whatever. And the parents who want extra education can take advantage of what there is to offer.

Later on, they can compare statistics to see if these "optional" days/courses really affect the student's abilities to do better compared with their less motivated classmates and release the figures publicly.

Course I'm referring to middle and high school, not elementary. Most of the chatter here probably even only applies to public mainstream school, deaf schools perhaps do not get affected as much through this?

There are some drawbacks to extra days of schooling too, as the automotive industry thrives big time on the months of student break.. within May to August/September, those are the busiest months for different specializations of the automotive world.

 

[jillio]

To make things easier, hopefully they are taking baby steps, not implementing any immediate plans after the proposal is thought over.

The Dept. of Ed. should attempt to first make extended day courses/classes optional, or a "seventh/+1 period" (for those who do six) optional for the children at the school. This way nothing is mandatory.

The parents who want their kids not to have extra class have that choice to have them go home or whatever. And the parents who want extra education can take advantage of what there is to offer.

Later on, they can compare statistics to see if these "optional" days/courses really affect the student's abilities to do better compared with their less motivated classmates and release the figures publicly.


Course I'm referring to middle and high school, not elementary. Most of the chatter here probably even only applies to public mainstream school, deaf schools perhaps do not get affected as much through this?

There are some drawbacks to extra days of schooling too, as the automotive industry thrives big time on the months of student break.. within May to August/September, those are the busiest months for different specializations of the automotive world.

I'm a bit confused. Since children do not work in the automotive industry, how is it that a summer break of 3 months benefits the automotive industry? If it is the parent that is working extended hours during this time, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the children to be in school, rather than the parent having to look for alternative activities to keep the children busy and supervised?

 

[naisho]

I'm a bit confused. Since children do not work in the automotive industry, how is it that a summer break of 3 months benefits the automotive industry? If it is the parent that is working extended hours during this time, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the children to be in school, rather than the parent having to look for alternative activities to keep the children busy and supervised?

I should've mentioned that the income variable is geographically dependent. I can see certain states not really gaining much out of those months, but for the others:

Here's some certain factors that pertains to CA, so YMMV (your mileage may vary) for other states.
- Teens and young adults are driving due to no courses
- Families take road trips, breaks, camping.. etc. Kids going out (Social "summer" events)
- More collisions, repair, checkups, octane guzzling as a result of increased traffic: especially true for teen drivers
- Highest months of new car purchases (or even used for the teens, possibly to say)


I used to work in IT for the automotive industry, had insider information to the annual statistics, earnings and repos during these months, productivity and earnings usually increase at least 25% at minimum, up to ~500% for certain specializations such as automotive collision & repair facilities.

May - June/Sept were big cash spending/earning times.

 

[jillio]

I should've mentioned that the income variable is geographically dependent. I can see certain states not really gaining much out of those months, but for the others:

Here's some certain factors that pertains to CA, so YMMV (your mileage may vary) for other states.
- Teens and young adults are driving due to no courses
- Families take road trips, breaks, camping.. etc. Kids going out (Social "summer" events)
- More collisions, repair, checkups, octane guzzling as a result of increased traffic: especially true for teen drivers
- Highest months of new car purchases (or even used for the teens, possibly to say)


I used to work in IT for the automotive industry, had insider information to the annual statistics, earnings and repos during these months, productivity and earnings usually increase at least 25% at minimum, up to ~500% for certain specializations such as automotive collision & repair facilities.

May - June/Sept were big cash spending/earning times.

But, if those months are the months of increased activity in the automotive industry, then fewer employees in the industry will be taking time off during those months. In fact, the items you have mentioned would simply transfer to the times that kids are out of school, because an extended school year does not mean no vacations. Likewise, you are looking only at those kids that are 16 and older, which is a small part of the population of students. More car purchases are made during the summer months for many more reasons than kids being out of school. In fact, kids being out of school, when looked at as a variable, probably doesn't have anything significant to do with the fact that more car purchases are made during these months. Actually, Sept. and Oct. see more purchases, as these are the months that the dealerships are attempting to reduce their inventory in preparation of new models coming out.

And again, increased production means increased need for employees to be on the job, not taking a vacation. So you still really haven't explained to me how kids being out of school for 3 months during the summer benefits the automotive industry.

And, isn't the primary concern the education of our youth, not the automotive industry?

 

[Buffalo]

Essentially, the money comes from the state in the case of the public school system. But stop and think: where is funding decided? In the case of the vast majority of situations, it comes from the federal level. And federal funds are quite often used to reimburse states for a portion of the state funds used.

Ok, the state and partly federal pays for the school meals. Could you please explain about how NCLB take the funding away from the poorest schools???

 

[jillio]

Ok, the state and partly federal pays for the school meals. Could you please explain about how NCLB take the funding away from the poorest schools???

Sure. The schools with the poorest test scores, by and large those schools in the poorest areas due to the fact that they do not have the advantages of current teaching materials and technology, have funding cut. In essence, what happens is, NCLB says, well, you can't meet these standards, so let's raise the standards and see if you can reach higher standards with even less money and resources.

 

[Jiro]

But, if those months are the months of increased activity in the automotive industry, then fewer employees in the industry will be taking time off during those months. In fact, the items you have mentioned would simply transfer to the times that kids are out of school, because an extended school year does not mean no vacations. Likewise, you are looking only at those kids that are 16 and older, which is a small part of the population of students. More car purchases are made during the summer months for many more reasons than kids being out of school. In fact, kids being out of school, when looked at as a variable, probably doesn't have anything significant to do with the fact that more car purchases are made during these months. Actually, Sept. and Oct. see more purchases, as these are the months that the dealerships are attempting to reduce their inventory in preparation of new models coming out.

And again, increased production means increased need for employees to be on the job, not taking a vacation. So you still really haven't explained to me how kids being out of school for 3 months during the summer benefits the automotive industry.

And, isn't the primary concern the education of our youth, not the automotive industry?

not all students are white-collar type. Not all students are into computers or psychology fields. Many high schools in California do have automotive courses. That means good pay & job opportunities for them in automotive industry. During 3 months vacation - that's when they can do internship or full-time job at automotive industry.

 

[Buffalo]

In my opinion, I think the school year should go year-round. There are way too many vacation days during the school year as it is.

It's funny that the kids in the USA are taught to respect other cultures, especially when those people come to the USA. They don't respect us, but we have to respect them. Go figure.

I don't see a problem with keeping the days off the same, but the sports programs need to be tightened, if not eliminated. If kids want sports, there are community centers all across the nation that offer these. Schools are for educating, not for sports.

Teachers have too many problem students in classrooms. I would favor the Socratical method of teaching to weed those students who want to be there from those who are wasting everyone's time.

Teachers also need to focus on teaching children, not on being "teachers." Big difference!

And get rid of those damn unions that want to "protect" lousy teachers!

I like the idea of year long school. It would keep the kids out of trouble as kids make trouble because of boredom. But... but.... but the kids need a break from the bullies. I would like to see the school officials do something about those bullies and troublemakers first before lengthen the school year. Having few people stay at school to keep an eye on the kids after school is a good way to make sure the kids are safe and don't have to be at home alone. There could be sport playing and or study hall after school right at the school. That way parents would be relieved that the kids are safe at school not at home alone. I think I read that the trouble caused by kids are in the afternoons after school and during summer. Once those problems are eliminated, there would be less need for cops which translated into lower taxes.

 

[naisho]

My insight:

I did not work with the market analysis department, I was in the IT division, but as apart of the job we had to attend seminars where execs and divisions across the country and even nation would attend semiannually. (Monster.com on the company).
In those seminars, that's where I picked up certain tidbits of info and am sharing with the rest of the people here to know.
It is common knowledge among the whole industry that in these months, productivity sees a surge everywhere, and as a result of that everyone's trying to take advantage of the cash to be earned in them.

Speculation from the experts usually base it on the fact that kids are free to do whatever, teenagers driving, car purchases in light of it, whatever. I do not have exact stats or the information on hand, like I said, I was not directly involved in marketing, I picked up on word of mouth and attending the seminars over what was happening.
From my own (anecdotal) experience in this area, during these months, even though I'm in IT and not directly associated with the actual parts of automotive related stuff, I'd be working overtime to get things done on schedule.


Even though driving only accounts for kids aged 15.5+ and above, the factor isn't exactly the age they have to be, it's the damage they can cause. You could be a 13 year old kid stealing your parent's station wagon and only account for .001% of teen drivers, but if you ram into that Aston Martin or some city structure, we're looking at big $ difficulties.
The whole point here is money for those who care about it.

There's some information of that here, on the CDC site:
CDC -Teen Drivers: Fact Sheet

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for U.S. teens, accounting for more than one in three deaths in this age group.1 In 2005, twelve teens ages 16 to 19 died every day from motor vehicle injuries.

In the United States during 2005, 4,544 teens ages 16 to 19 died of injuries caused by motor vehicle crashes. In the same year, nearly 400,000 motor vehicle occupants in this age group sustained nonfatal injuries that required treatment in an emergency department.1 Overall, in 2005, teenagers accounted for 10 percent of the U.S. population and 12 percent of motor vehicle crash deaths.

Young people ages 15-24 represent only 14% of the U.S. population. However, they account for 30% ($19 billion) of the total costs of motor vehicle injuries among males and 28% ($7 billion) of the total costs of motor vehicle injuries among females.2

That $26 billion number may be a bit skewed for the age gaps, if we were to split it up I don't know what are the exacts for aged 15.5-18 (high school). And the problem that I no longer with the company, do not have access to the data, we will have to "play by mind" as a result of it unless someone else can bring them to the table.


Remember I'm not here to argue for no schooling. I'm just saying out of common sense that auto industries will likely take a hit in gross earnings as a result of it, whether that is good or bad.. be my guest, you can be the judge.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Actually before he became our President, he stated one of his major goals is to improve education for the children which he believes is very important to our country's future. So he kept his word and showed us that he is doing something about it.

Go watch the old tapes or something...if you have it. lol

Oh yes, I remember he mentioned for want to improve education during Election 2008.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Not "just war." But Commander in Chief is a specific presidential duty.

Actually, it mean that he´s the military´s boss.

Show me where in the U.S. Constitution that the President has the authority or responsibility to manage schools.

Are you saying that it´s not presidential duty to focus his country but just Commander in Chief?

No one is making you "talk about Obama´s time and 70s." I talk about what I want, and you talk about what you want.

Okay, nobody force you to not talk about the past but just let you know that it belongs past. It´s fine with me if you continue to talk about the past. I rather to talk about children´s present and future.

Why can't kids play sports and do hobbies with their parents? Why does it have to be the school?

I´m really glad that there´re sports at afternoons after lesson in school because I don´t want to see children go home alone, waiting for their parents come home from work. It would make them crazy, boring and make themselves stupid... addict to computer games, etc. Don´t you know that the sports, etc are important to develop children´s mind and body, helps them to become more independant and confidence... I do have sports at school as well. Sports are most important part in school.

Many parents have time do hobbies with their children in the weekends than weekday because many parents work long hours and also overtimes as well. I thought you know that workers/employees have little leave annual per year and have to work overtimes to collect hours to follow children´s school holiday don´t you?

Why should I be glad that Obama wants to take more influence from the parents and give it to the government, and then charge the parents to pay for his plan?

Because Public in country is government´s responsible. Taxpayers expect that their country should be take care of, not neglect.

Look at school shooting, police shooting, public shooting, neglect children´s future education, etc etc. etc... Government do nothing for their country is unacceptance.

Who is responsible for the children's future? The parents are.

Of course.

The government is not. The best thing the federal government can do is to not interfere with family life.

Huh? I do not see anything that Government interfere everyone´s life but give their people free what they want as long as they obey the public law/rule. Yes, Government is responsible for country...

Yes he is what?

Re-read Obama´s website.

Can't they read and do crafts at home? Can't they play aports with their friends without a school team?

Of course they can read and do crafts at home if they feel like to. My boys read a lot and use bicycle to go out or go to swimming after school if they feel like to. Do you have problem to have sports and crafts at school ?

So reading maps does not require technology, right?

Are you saying that the children should be teach technology only, not geography and navigation?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Like I said, it isn't the fact that the government is involved. The government has always been involved in public education. Government involvement is the whole idea behind public education. Ever noticed who pays the teachers and staff?

The problem is the so-called solution to the problem. Bush decided that NCLB was going to solve the problem. It made it worse. Obama has to be involved if NCLB is going to be reversed. And NCLB has caused more problems in our educational system than anything else in my lifetime.

Sounds like you are just like the grumpy old guy across the street who doesn't want to pay taxes that are used for education because his kids are all grown.:roll: Educating our youth is what determines the future for us all.

Nor do children become the "property" of the state as a result of public education. That is a real leap there. But I do find it interesting that you would use the word "property" in connection with children.

Exactly, that´s what I thinking the same.

 

[Steel X]

Hmmm...reading all the previous posts, I have come to share my opinion with you all thou I do agree with Obama's idea about expanding education for the children. Making longer school days could be pretty tiring for the students and teachers so I think the best idea for this is to go year round. It proably shouldnt hurt for alot of public schools to go year round as part of improving education for the kids.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

then tell me what's the purpose for Department of Education? What's next? President managing Immigration system in place of INS? managing our law enforcement system in place of Attorney General?

Obama - your job is to run the country, not micromanage the country. the country's too big for you to deal with in a very short time. that's why you have Secretary of ----. Appoint them and count on them. thus concludes your introductory management course for the night

Huh? Obama mentioned for want to improve education during Election 2008. I thought you know it, don´t you ?

It doesn´t mean that President micromanage the country because he want to improve the country.

Beside.... seems like there's a lot of finger-pointing at politicians, schools, and system for education failure. How about.... PARENTS? They're treating our teachers like babysitters, nanny, etc. I think the parents need to step up and actually do their part. THEN we can talk about education.

Education is an important part of children's life. It´s about learning skill, not babysitter, nanny, etc. We parents decide which school, we want to send our children to because we parents know it´s EDUCATION, not babysitter, nanny, etc.

I found interesting link but I disagree with the title...and very sad to read about US system over education... I´m surprise to see many comments toward the author for give him right... Alot of Americans are not happy with public school, poor education, etc.

If you disagree something what the author wrote in that link then feel free to tell us.

John Stossel's 'Stupid in America' - ABC News

From reading, the parents can´t pick school what they want for their children. Their children must attend the public school in the zone where they live... If they don´t like then send them to private school... it´s very sad for the parents to struggle with money for send their children to private school if they are not happy with public school near where they lives.

I can pick ANY school for my children if I feel like to, no matter either it is near where I live or not.

It´s no excuse to blame anyone. It pressure the families... They must work to support family and have to work overtime to collect hours to have free time to be with their family. They see little of their children... The parents work longer and their children stay at school short time and have a lot of breaks but stay home alone, waiting for their parents come home from work... it makes them boring, crazy...... I guess everything would be different if US system goes improve for the family and education that they get more leave annual then they are able to spent their time with their children.

 

[Foxrac]

Huh? Obama mentioned for want to improve education during Election 2008. I thought you know it, don´t you ?

It doesn´t mean that President micromanage the country because he want to improve the country.




Education is an important part of children's life. It´s about learning skill, not babysitter, nanny, etc. We parents decide which school, we want to send our children to because we parents know it´s EDUCATION, not babysitter, nanny, etc.

I found interesting link but I disagree with the title...and very sad to read about US system over education... I´m surprise to see many comments toward the author for give him right... Alot of Americans are not happy with public school, poor education, etc.

If you disagree something what the author wrote in that link then feel free to tell us.

John Stossel's 'Stupid in America' - ABC News

From reading, the parents can´t pick school what they want for their children. Their children must attend the public school in the zone where they live... If they don´t like then send them to private school... it´s very sad for the parents to struggle with money for send their children to private school if they are not happy with public school near where they lives.

I can pick ANY school for my children if I feel like to, no matter either it is near where I live or not.

It´s no excuse to blame anyone. It pressure the families... They must work to support family and have to work overtime to collect hours to have free time to be with their family. They see little of their children... The parents work longer and their children stay at school short time and have a lot of breaks but stay home alone, waiting for their parents come home from work... it makes them boring, crazy...... I guess everything would be different if US system goes improve for the family and education that they get more leave annual then they are able to spent their time with their children.

Jiro already know about it but he has different opinion and little or none of your views are same as others.

I have agree with Jiro in some cases, I'm strongly oppose on big government and most of authorities are supposed to order by state, even required to honor under our constitution.

If you don't like to any hear about criticize against Obama, that's freedom of speech and we are rights to criticize on president whatever we want and you couldn't take them so seriously because that's multi-parties democracy.

I'm pretty much like libertarian that support smaller government, lower tax and moderate to liberal in social, Obama isn't my type and I made any expect about majority parties shift in next year.

I don't need anything to be same as socialist republic of Germany, that all I care about it.

 

[Doug5]

back in high skool, I wanted to take geometry over the summer between my fresh/soph year to catch up with all the AP students. the school wouldnt let me.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Jiro already know about it but he has different opinion and little or none of your views are same as others.

Of course I know... Why I am here for is exchange our views. What´s your point?

If you don't like to any hear about criticize against Obama, that's freedom of speech and we are rights to criticize on president whatever we want and you couldn't take them so seriously because that's multi-parties democracy.

Huh? I do not see anything that I took posters´view serious but share my view. This is Forum for? All what I see is you have problem with ADers including myself for our opposite view. Please don´t take my posts personally when I see different over Obama.

I don't need anything to be same as socialist republic of Germany, that all I care about it.

Socialist republic of Germany ? Excuse me for your ignorant comment. Your comment here is the best proof that you have a lack of knowledge. I feel sorry for you.