NYTimes Blog: Teaching a Deaf Child Her Mother’s Tongue

[CreatedNat]

Yes, but with your insistution that technology has improved, you're basicly goinng " they hear like hearing people! There's NO need for Sign. Technology is GOD!

I never saw anyone say they were "like hearing people". I would never think of myself or my princess as a hearing person, we are deaf... and that is perfectly okay.

Oh and the author of this piece is the mother of relatively young kids. If you went back in time, I am sure my parents, and the parents of shel90, DeafCaroline, bajagirl, kristine, and many many others here would have expressed simlair feelings and thoughts. Wait a while. Her kids are now "you like chocolate milk? I like chocolate milk? We'll be best friends."
Wait til fourth grade and things get more complicated.

I had no issue making friends past 4th grade. I met and married a hearing man while I was in High School. The majority of my friends are Hearing, and yes I may not have been able to understand people 100%, but the people who mattered, they gave me patience. I was never insulted in classes because of having an interpreter, because of having hearing aids. People were actually very interested in them, and pleasant about them. Once they understood what they did and what they didn't do, people were more understanding.

My only "issue" with this article, is I really wish the mother would have continued with signing... it honestly makes a huge difference in a kids life. I grew up with speech and ASL, and for many years, I would not speak in public, because I knew my voice was not what it "should" be, but then... my parents sat down with me, and, in ASL, told me how perfect I was, and that it was only what Jesus thought of me that mattered, that was when I realized, I can speak, and no one can make me feel less because I am Created by the King just as I am. ASL still played a huge role in my life, and many people in school were actually very interested in my interpreters, picking up signs here and there. I do remember when I was young, in early elementary school, I thought I was so very special because I had a "teacher" all to myself... I didn't realize that my interpreter wasn't actually a teacher!

 

[deafdyke]

I had no issue making friends past 4th grade. I met and married a hearing man while I was in High School. The majority of my friends are Hearing, and yes I may not have been able to understand people 100%, but the people who mattered, they gave me patience. I was never insulted in classes because of having an interpreter, because of having hearing aids. People were actually very interested in them, and pleasant about them. Once they understood what they did and what they didn't do, people were more understanding.

Nat, there are exceptions, andit's good that your experiance was so positive but overall kids start struggling around 4th grade, both academicly and socially.
It's very common and very universal, with both oral and Signing kids alike.
The reason why Clarke's dorm programs lasted so long, wasn't b/c a lot of parents were sending their little kids off to live in the dorms, but b/c until recently a lot of kids started struggling and transferred there for middle school.
A sucessful mainstream experiance tends to have to have the right ingreidants to be 100% sucessfull, and unfortunatly those ingrediants aren't always available at every single mainstream school. Heck, even a lot of the superstars have major social emotional issues....it's a VERY big issue at the Clarke School Mainstream conferences.

 

[CSign]

Nat, there are exceptions, andit's good that your experiance was so positive but overall kids start struggling around 4th grade, both academicly and socially.
It's very common and very universal, with both oral and Signing kids alike.
The reason why Clarke's dorm programs lasted so long, wasn't b/c a lot of parents were sending their little kids off to live in the dorms, but b/c until recently a lot of kids started struggling and transferred there for middle school.
A sucessful mainstream experiance tends to have to have the right ingreidants to be 100% sucessfull, and unfortunatly those ingrediants aren't always available at every single mainstream school. Heck, even a lot of the superstars have major social emotional issues....it's a VERY big issue at the Clarke School Mainstream conferences.

Did you go to school at Clarke, or attend any of their mainstreaming conferences?

 

[deafdyke]

Did you go to school at Clarke, or attend any of their mainstreaming conferences?

I attended a mainstream conference a few years ago, and they were just parrotting the SAME crap they were when I was in the system and when a lot of the other dhh folks here were in the system. Granted they are not alone.....the trend in special ed seems to be treating Inclusion as Something Amazing without reconizing the enourmous downsides. But major social issues can be and are the norm,(for kids with disabilties/differneces except if you're lucky enough to be in a school district/town that has the right mix of things to create sucess.
I have many friends who are both regular and sped teachers and they say they're seeing the exact same things with their students, that they witnessed ME dealing with as a student.

 

[CSign]

I attended a mainstream conference a few years ago, and they were just parrotting the SAME crap they were when I was in the system and when a lot of the other dhh folks here were in the system. Granted they are not alone.....the trend in special ed seems to be treating Inclusion as Something Amazing without reconizing the enourmous downsides. But major social issues can be and are the norm,(for kids with disabilties/differneces except if you're lucky enough to be in a school district/town that has the right mix of things to create sucess.
I have many friends who are both regular and sped teachers and they say they're seeing the exact same things with their students, that they witnessed ME dealing with as a student.

Well it looks like it's a new year, and a new theme. Maybe you'll be interested in attending this year...

"October 25 - 26, 2012: "Apps to FMs: Expanding Opportunities through Technology",*The 33rd Annual Fall Conference on Mainstreaming Students with Hearing Loss, Sheraton Hotel, Springfield, MA."

Annual Mainstream Conference

 

[CreatedNat]

Well it looks like it's a new year, and a new theme. Maybe you'll be interested in attending this year...

"October 25 - 26, 2012: "Apps to FMs: Expanding Opportunities through Technology",*The 33rd Annual Fall Conference on Mainstreaming Students with Hearing Loss, Sheraton Hotel, Springfield, MA."

Annual Mainstream Conference

I think it is an interesting aspect for the conference, and I do think that being able to have intelligible speech is a wonderful thing, something that can help create a brighter future for a child. But from my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) but Clark school is a purely Oral Environment, and does not allow for ASL. I think ASL is a vital to a deaf child, their linguistic development, as well as their development of fluent English.

 

[GrendelQ]

I think it is an interesting aspect for the conference, and I do think that being able to have intelligible speech is a wonderful thing, something that can help create a brighter future for a child. But from my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) but Clark school is a purely Oral Environment, and does not allow for ASL. I think ASL is a vital to a deaf child, their linguistic development, as well as their development of fluent English.

That's true, I think Csign was kindly redirecting deafdyke to look further into what the Clarke program is all about before she (DD) continues to inform people that bi-bi schools for the deaf provide "Clarke-style" auditory-oral programming and intense speech therapy for the majority of students, neither of which is the case. My little one has attended a bi-bi school for 4, nearly 5 years, and I've researched schools pretty extensively in the course of making that decision (and making a case for it each year): a bi-bi school where ASL is the primary language of instruction and interaction is a significantly different educational environment compared to Clarke's programs.

 

[CreatedNat]

That's true, I think Csign was kindly redirecting deafdyke to look further into what the Clarke program is all about before she (DD) continues to inform people that bi-bi schools for the deaf provide "Clarke-style" auditory-oral programming and intense speech therapy for the majority of students, neither of which is the case. My little one has attended a bi-bi school for 4, nearly 5 years, and I've researched schools pretty extensively in the course of making that decision (and making a case for it each year): a bi-bi school where ASL is the primary language of instruction and interaction is a significantly different educational environment compared to Clarke's programs.

Thank you for that clarification . My parents, when I was younger looked into so many different schools for me, but none were what they had wanted. Ether they used only ASL and there was little to no actual Speech Therapy, or they were purely Oral, where there was no ASL allowed. This is what I fear for my daughter, that this will still be the same situation. I would not mind her going to a deaf school, but I also would like her to have high quality Speech training. This is something I am going to need to research in my search for a proper school for my princess. Are you still pleased with the bi-bi school for your daughter?

 

[CSign]

Thank you for that clarification . My parents, when I was younger looked into so many different schools for me, but none were what they had wanted. Ether they used only ASL and there was little to no actual Speech Therapy, or they were purely Oral, where there was no ASL allowed. This is what I fear for my daughter, that this will still be the same situation. I would not mind her going to a deaf school, but I also would like her to have high quality Speech training. This is something I am going to need to research in my search for a proper school for my princess. Are you still pleased with the bi-bi school for your daughter?

I think you're in a good place in terms of quality education for DHH students.

Colorado is one of few states that includes a "Communication Plan" (I'm pretty sure that's what they call it) for the students, so everyone is clear on methodology.

Most states don't take the time to lay it out like that.

 

[GrendelQ]

Thank you for that clarification . My parents, when I was younger looked into so many different schools for me, but none were what they had wanted. Ether they used only ASL and there was little to no actual Speech Therapy, or they were purely Oral, where there was no ASL allowed. This is what I fear for my daughter, that this will still be the same situation. I would not mind her going to a deaf school, but I also would like her to have high quality Speech training. This is something I am going to need to research in my search for a proper school for my princess. Are you still pleased with the bi-bi school for your daughter?

Love TLC and recommend it so very highly! But placement is very hard to maintain -- even for a profoundly deaf child whose primary language was ASL, and it's currently in jeopardy -- because the school succeeds so well at teaching deaf students effectively. I've had to employ the "stay put" protective regulation, rejecting her IEP, which makes no one happy, but maintains placement "as is" to keep her there.

 

[CSign]

Love TLC and recommend it so very highly! But placement is very hard to maintain -- even for a profoundly deaf child whose primary language was ASL, and it's currently in jeopardy -- because the school succeeds so well at teaching deaf students effectively. I've had to employ the "stay put" protective regulation, rejecting her IEP, which makes no one happy, but maintains placement "as is" to keep her there.

It's ridiculous.

 

[CreatedNat]

I think you're in a good place in terms of quality education for DHH students.

Colorado is one of few states that includes a "Communication Plan" (I'm pretty sure that's what they call it) for the students, so everyone is clear on methodology.

Most states don't take the time to lay it out like that.

Yes I remember being involved in my IEP when we first moved here, my parents were in shock that they didn't have to fight as hard for services here. I am very pleased to be living here, though I wish we were a tad closer to a school that offered wonderful services. I do want my girls to be able to attend the same school, but I know that depending on how well Ally does, and what services are provided, this may not be an option for her. Thankfully I have a bit of time before they even enter Preschool!

Love TLC and recommend it so very highly! But placement is very hard to maintain -- even for a profoundly deaf child whose primary language was ASL, and it's currently in jeopardy -- because the school succeeds so well at teaching deaf students effectively. I've had to employ the "stay put" protective regulation, rejecting her IEP, which makes no one happy, but maintains placement "as is" to keep her there.

I am very happy that she has a school that is working out so well for her! And that you are a mom who knows how to fight for her daughter!!

 

[CSign]

CreatedNat- is your daughter receiving services through early intervention yet?

 

[CreatedNat]

CreatedNat- is your daughter receiving services through early intervention yet?

Yes. After fighting and fighting we were able to get the early intervention services we wanted and needed for miss Ally. She has sessions every other week in our home with a SLP, who is fluent in ASL. Our IFSP also has an ASL teacher coming in once a week to be sure my husband is learning, and along with the SLP is monitoring the girls (mostly ally) with their language development. The ASL teacher, although she is hearing, is wonderful! When they told me her name I was amazed, she was the interpreter I had when the girls were born! The SLP has agreed that Ally is getting no benifit from her aids, she doesn't babble like her sister, but makes odd sounds, though it is beautiful to see her babble with her hands, knowing that she can communicate like that. Her most recent sign, though I have not been able to see it, according to my bridegroom, is sister. She keeps looking around, singing sister sister, looking confused (Amaya and I are currently at childrens, but that is a thread in its own).

 

[CSign]

Yes. After fighting and fighting we were able to get the early intervention services we wanted and needed for miss Ally. She has sessions every other week in our home with a SLP, who is fluent in ASL. Our IFSP also has an ASL teacher coming in once a week to be sure my husband is learning, and along with the SLP is monitoring the girls (mostly ally) with their language development. The ASL teacher, although she is hearing, is wonderful! When they told me her name I was amazed, she was the interpreter I had when the girls were born! The SLP has agreed that Ally is getting no benifit from her aids, she doesn't babble like her sister, but makes odd sounds, though it is beautiful to see her babble with her hands, knowing that she can communicate like that. Her most recent sign, though I have not been able to see it, according to my bridegroom, is sister. She keeps looking around, singing sister sister, looking confused (Amaya and I are currently at childrens, but that is a thread in its own).

I'm happy to read that she is getting appropriate services, including someone teaching the family (your husband primarily?) ASL.

That's cute that she's signing "sister" and looking for her. I hope that Amaya is ok... As a parent, it's never fun when your child is in the hospital...

 

[CreatedNat]

I'm happy to read that she is getting appropriate services, including someone teaching the family (your husband primarily?) ASL.

That's cute that she's signing "sister" and looking for her. I hope that Amaya is ok... As a parent, it's never fun when your child is in the hospital...

Yes, she is there to teach David (My Bridegroom), as well as his parents occasionally, ASL. She has been doing a wonderful job explaining the grammatical aspects to them, as well as not letting them slide as much when they sign things wrong (I apparently have been much too lenient with them).

and yes, David told me this morning that he has been trying to explain to a 6 month old that sister is with mommy at the hospital because sister is sick. My sweet princess is not understanding that... (but I do not expect her to as she is only 6 months old)... my poor Amaya doesn't even have the energy to eat on her own right now... and this is the scariest thing I have ever been through... not only am I separated from one of my children... but my other princess is so sick that it makes me physically hurt... I never knew seeing your child sick like this could cause physical pain...

 

[deafdyke]

Thank you for that clarification . My parents, when I was younger looked into so many different schools for me, but none were what they had wanted. Ether they used only ASL and there was little to no actual Speech Therapy, or they were purely Oral, where there was no ASL allowed. This is what I fear for my daughter, that this will still be the same situation. I would not mind her going to a deaf school, but I also would like her to have high quality Speech training. This is something I am going to need to research in my search for a proper school for my princess. Are you still pleased with the bi-bi school for your daughter?

CreatedNat, actual schools or dhh programs? It's also kinda weird b/c until recently most sign using programs were TC, ,meaning they used both sign and speech. Although I do know that one complaint with hearing parents in in 80's and 90's is that TC may not have concentrated enough on speech skills.
My point is that, while there's not nessarily a Clarke style en masse exclusively in oral only set up at deaf schools, the auxilarially supports for HOH students are there, so that kids who want to develop speech and kids who NEED spoken language support can develop it. The reason it's not exclusive is that it now no longer takes a really long time for dhh kids to develop spoken language abilties, like they did in the old days.

 

[deafdyke]

Well it looks like it's a new year, and a new theme. Maybe you'll be interested in attending this year...

"October 25 - 26, 2012: "Apps to FMs: Expanding Opportunities through Technology",*The 33rd Annual Fall Conference on Mainstreaming Students with Hearing Loss, Sheraton Hotel, Springfield, MA."

Annual Mainstream Conference

Although there's a theme, there's always perheninal topics, and one of the perheninal topics is social-emotional issues.

 

[CSign]

Although there's a theme, there's always perheninal topics, and one of the perheninal topics is social-emotional issues.

It doesn't look like it...


"Clarke Mainstream Services is seeking workshop proposals that address our 2012 conference theme: Apps to FMs: Expanding Opportunities through Technology. In today’s world technology has opened new and diverse opportunities for students with hearing loss to communicate, learn and socialize. For this year’s conference we are seeking proposals that will address current educational and hearing technologies and innovative strategies that foster and
insure the effective use of these technologies.

ALL proposal topics must fall into the categories of Hearing Technology or Classroom Technology to be considered."

http://www.clarkeschools.org/upload..._Mainstream_Conference_Call_for_Proposals.pdf

 

[Bottesini]

It doesn't look like it...


"Clarke Mainstream Services is seeking workshop proposals that address our 2012 conference theme: Apps to FMs: Expanding Opportunities through Technology. In today’s world technology has opened new and diverse opportunities for students with hearing loss to communicate, learn and socialize. For this year’s conference we are seeking proposals that will address current educational and hearing technologies and innovative strategies that foster and
insure the effective use of these technologies.

ALL proposal topics must fall into the categories of Hearing Technology or Classroom Technology to be considered."
From your article:

Clarke Mainstream Services is seeking workshop proposals that address our 2012 conference theme: Apps to FMs:
Expanding Opportunities through Technology. In today’s world technology has opened new and diverse
opportunities for students with hearing loss to communicate, learn and socialize. For this year’s conference we are seeking
proposals that will address current educational and hearing technologies and innovative strategies that foster and
insure the effective use of these technologies.

http://www.clarkeschools.org/upload..._Mainstream_Conference_Call_for_Proposals.pdf

So yes they are considering the social/emotional well being of the mainstreamed students.

Not that oral schools are really a blip on my radar, but be fair.