NY passes 1st US gun control bill since massacre

[Reba]

Worlds Worst Boyfriend (Official Vid). Roommate Robbery prank on 3 hot chicks! - YouTube

He wouldn't think it was so funny if an armed neighbor had come to the girls' rescue.

 

[Jiro]

Ok, like I said before, gun control law won't stop black markets. I know that. Same thing with dope dealing. That's why we have DEA and ATF. I have repeated saying that gun control law is needed to make sure that no assault-style rifles/high-capacity magazines are sold. It's not taking your rights away. You can still keep your guns that you already own for sporting and protection. Right now they are protesting in DC.

you are already taking my rights away by telling me that I can't own an "assault rifle" for sport and defense.

Gun control advocates march as nation reels from school shootings - CNN.com

Most importantly, please respect my opinion. If you don't like what you hear, leave me alone. You said a new law won't make a difference. OK, I respect your opinion. ? I am really getting tired of getting attacked by you and other members (especially dhb) because all of you don't like what you hear.

and if you don't like what you hear, feel free to ignore me or leave.

 

[naisho]

in most of security cams... looks like a handful of robbers do wear masks

You did catch the part I said in my earlier post that cameras can help for certain crimes, but not all right? And that robbery was not exactly on that list?

well I don't see how unless you'd have to be that stupidly bold to rob in a broad daylight with people everywhere.

Anytime you have one on, anyone will be wondering what you are doing. That's probably the reason you would put it on right before the moment of the crime to reduce suspicion. It depends on where (which city, state) you are talking about too because it doesn't always happen during the evening.

Here's a snapshot of one of my GIS projects that showed what hours serious crimes happened in LA during the year of 2011. It's publicly available data on LA county. These are crimes involving serious offenses that often involve felony sentence (All 5 of the FBI's violent crimes are in there - rapes, robbery, agg. assault, etc). As you might be surprised, people in LA were still doing crime between 11am-6pm.

 

[naisho]

If cameras were really a significant deterrent to crime we wouldn't have so many "caught on camera" criminal moments on youtube.

Well, your earlier question I thought you were sincerely wondering if cameras helped. Studies on NCJRS abstracts show they do. L. Sherman has shown cameras have impacts. Now if you are talking about significant deterrent, I don't know what constitutes your definition of significant, but maybe cameras are not the answers you are hoping for.

 

[Jiro]

You did catch the part I said in my earlier post that cameras can help for certain crimes, but not all right? And that robbery was not exactly on that list?

Anytime you have one on, anyone will be wondering what you are doing. That's probably the reason you would put it on right before the moment of the crime to reduce suspicion. It depends on where (which city, state) you are talking about too because it doesn't always happen during the evening.

Here's a snapshot of one of my GIS projects that showed what hours serious crimes happened in LA during the year of 2011. It's publicly available data on LA county. These are crimes involving serious offenses that often involve felony sentence (All 5 of the FBI's violent crimes are in there - rapes, robbery, agg. assault, etc). As you might be surprised, people in LA were still doing crime between 11am-6pm.

there's always plenty of idiots

 

[Reba]

...I have repeated saying that gun control law is needed to make sure that no assault-style rifles/high-capacity magazines are sold. It's not taking your rights away. You can still keep your guns that you already own for sporting and protection....

It's not a personal attack to question the facts of your statements.

Suppose no more "assault-style" rifles/high-capacity magazines were sold after tomorrow. Would that prevent any nut cases from committing mass murder? No.

It is taking the rights from law-abiding citizens because it would prevent them from buying the same protection that others got before them. Just because my family has an AR-15 doesn't do a lick of good for protecting a family who wants to buy one next week but can't because of a new restriction.

It's like saying that just because people who are now over 18 have the right to vote, if we prevent people who turn 18 next year from voting in future elections, that we didn't lose the right to vote.

 

[Reba]

Well, your earlier question I thought you were sincerely wondering if cameras helped. Studies on NCJRS abstracts show they do. L. Sherman has shown cameras have impacts. Now if you are talking about significant deterrent, I don't know what constitutes your definition of significant, but maybe cameras are not the answers you are hoping for.

I wouldn't say that they never deter some crimes but they certainly don't prevent crime by themselves. That's because people will continue to break the law regardless.

 

[naisho]

I wouldn't say that they never deter some crimes but they certainly don't prevent crime by themselves. That's because people will continue to break the law regardless.

Of course, especially in the bold - people who don't care for the consequences. ~1% of the offending population or place (and cities/areas) can be responsible for a majority, like over 50-60% of the crimes. Bars in Minneapolis are one example.

Cameras are meant to stop rational offenders. In a parking lot without a camera, someone might be more likely to jimmy the car or teenagers going for a joyride. With one there, when they notice it, these are the same rational people thinking "I don't want to be caught on camera."

The serious offender doesn't care.

 

[Foxrac]

Ok, like I said before, gun control law won't stop black markets. I know that. Same thing with dope dealing. That's why we have DEA and ATF. I have repeated saying that gun control law is needed to make sure that no assault-style rifles/high-capacity magazines are sold. It's not taking your rights away. You can still keep your guns that you already own for sporting and protection. Right now they are protesting in DC.

Gun control advocates march as nation reels from school shootings - CNN.com

Most importantly, please respect my opinion. If you don't like what you hear, leave me alone. You said a new law won't make a difference. OK, I respect your opinion. ? I am really getting tired of getting attacked by you and other members (especially dhb) because all of you don't like what you hear.

You can resolve with PM or just ask in manner about not interested to argue, that's better than getting angry and cuss at members. It is unlikely to have a new thread with 5-10 pages in one day if you ask those above.

The gun rights are hot issue, so same goes with abortion, gay rights, religion, etc.

 

[TXgolfer]

There is no way to stop the violence, we can only hope to reduce it. The best tool we have for doing that is providing children with good role models and environments. Government could help tremendously by reducing the amount of violent media children can access. It's that simple. The best parents in the world can't control everything their kids see.

 

[CrazyPaul]

You can resolve with PM or just ask in manner about not interested to argue, that's better than getting angry and cuss at members. It is unlikely to have a new thread with 5-10 pages in one day if you ask those above.

The gun rights are hot issue, so same goes with abortion, gay rights, religion, etc.

I understand. I was not angry when I was swearing. I just like to swear for fun. Swearing is not a crime but it's not allowed here so I have to be holy when I make a post. Thanks for your concern. I appreciate it.

 

[naisho]

I wouldn't say that they never deter some crimes but they certainly don't prevent crime by themselves. That's because people will continue to break the law regardless.

I went to go look up a quick couple of publications on examples to see if they address your questions on camera/CCTV efficiency. Here's what they said:

New York City private apartment complex usage in Peter Cooper Village, and Stuyvesant Town. (2009)
The Effectiveness of an Electronic Security Management System in a Privately Owned Apartment Complex

Various businesses, intra/interstate operations - Roy Rogers Restaurants, Hardee's/Carl's Jr., 7-11's, etc. See table. (2000)
Effectiveness of crime prevention through environmental design (CPTED) in reducing robberies

Do you draw anything from the use of CCTV's and the proceedings of crime?

 

[naisho]

This was one I read a couple months back on Newark auto thefts, shootings, and petty/larceny from autos with the use of cameras. Jiro will probably find some interest in debating on that.

NCJRS.gov - Police-Monitored CCTV Cameras in Newark, NJ: A Quasi-Experimental Test of Crime Deterrence (2011)

I've always held agreement cameras should be supplemental additions for crime prevention, not just the only means to deter crime. It's kind of like adding a security officer to a bank. You don't just want a security officer, you add the cameras, bulletproof windows and distance between teller counter/person and so on.

How Newark positioned those cameras in that study:

 

[diehardbiker]

Just came in the news, this proves that gun control law isn't as effective as you, the pro gun control advocates think they are. FBI just busted huge drug AND gun black market on Internet with at least a million subscribers and I believe this bust is just a tip of iceberg. It is big enough to prove that gun control will not eliminate criminals from getting guns.

Web's black market peddles drugs, guns and more - CNN.com

 

[diehardbiker]

Many of you thought that gun control would help... here is link

Security contractor 'dumping' background checks - CNN.com

So, really? Background check? Aren't they effective and we are losing money already. From what I see, anytime when government create law, there will always be another form of crime around new law. Background checks would sound good, but reality it is as effective as a fraud in any way.