NRA offensive exposes deep U.S. divisions on guns

Reba said:
I guess it boils down to how many gun crimes were committed using guns that were purchased without background checks at gun shows. Does anyone know that number? :dunno:
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I cannot even remember any single crime where a gun was purchased from a gun show without performing a background check :dunno:

anybody? CrazyPaul?

FYI, ya'all - a gun show is not the same as gun store so no cheating! :nono:
 
How many miles of US borders were closely monitored? The truth is thousands of miles of border were NOT even tightly monitored. That is how illegal guns and drugs came in US, how would background check is going to help where the border isn't 100% secured?

When Uncle Sam beefed up the regulation, it gives black market business better opportunity and these business don't give damn who the buyers are. Until the US borders are 100% secured then that is whole different story.

Don't forget include how many tunnels between US and Mexico exists? Maybe between Canada and US? I believe hundreds or maybe thousands of them are not yet found but exists, perfect for gun smuggling which will ultimate killed the point of mandatory background check.

1,081 miles of openly opportunity for illegal contraband smuggling just between US and Mexico via land alone. This includes human trafficking and other criminal activities.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-...-control-1081-miles-us-mexico-border-dhs-says

Gotta to think what criminals thinks.
 
diehardbiker said:
How many miles of US borders were closely monitored? The truth is thousands of miles of border were NOT even tightly monitored. That is how illegal guns and drugs came in US, how would background check is going to help where the border isn't 100% secured?

When Uncle Sam beefed up the regulation, it gives black market business better opportunity and these business don't give damn who the buyers are. Until the US borders are 100% secured then that is whole different story.

Don't forget include how many tunnels between US and Mexico exists? Maybe between Canada and US? I believe hundreds or maybe thousands of them are not yet found but exists, perfect for gun smuggling which will ultimate killed the point of mandatory background check.

1,081 miles of openly opportunity for illegal contraband smuggling just between US and Mexico via land alone. This includes human trafficking and other criminal activities.

U.S. Government Does Not Have

Gotta to think what criminals thinks.
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It is more easier to crossing illegally from Canada than Mexico because many of borders around Mexico are heavily guarded and many checkpoints. The between Alaska and Canada (Yukon) don't have fence.
 
See what I am saying? Yes your right about Canada and this is one way around if US decided to beef up gun regulations.

Anytime when government beefs up, there will always be unwanted consequences.

Perfect example, NYS has the highest cigarettes taxes, going I think $4.75 a pack, where in Kentucky, their tax is not even half of a dollar on cigs, result? Kentucky smuggling on cigs is one of lowest and NYS has the highest cigs smuggling and you could easily make profits smuggling cigs from Ky to NY.

And yes, I already wrote letter to Governor Cuomo that he is too naive to think tighten gun control is going to help. I already pointed out how many times did the gun control actually prevented massacres?

Foxrac said:
It is more easier to crossing illegally from Canada than Mexico because many of borders around Mexico are heavily guarded and many checkpoints. The between Alaska and Canada (Yukon) don't have fence.
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diehardbiker said:
See what I am saying? Yes your right about Canada and this is one way around if US decided to beef up gun regulations.

Anytime when government beefs up, there will always be unwanted consequences.

Perfect example, NYS has the highest cigarettes taxes, going I think $4.75 a pack, where in Kentucky, their tax is not even half of a dollar on cigs, result? Kentucky smuggling on cigs is one of lowest and NYS has the highest cigs smuggling and you could easily make profits smuggling cigs from Ky to NY.

And yes, I already wrote letter to Governor Cuomo that he is too naive to think tighten gun control is going to help. I already pointed out how many times did the gun control actually prevented massacres?
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The guns from black market usually cost more, I recall about learned from Jiro, so the people with low income may unable to afford and they, especially legal citizens don't want obtain the gun illegally. I don't know about criminals, but drug dealers are more rich and they may afford to buy gun illegally and sometime, the criminals use guns that stolen from somewhere, including families.

New York has Native Indian reservation that where you can buy cigarettes at cheaper, so they subjected to federal law and tribal law only - I think it is in Mohawk Valley.

Oh well about between you and NYS government. For political - I'm not concerned about gun rights because there are many issues that we have to address, especially fiscal issues. Due to politically divided between republican and democrat, I'm not going to give up the support for gay marriage in exchange for support gun rights.
 
Of course, always cost more in black markets. Criminals would rob convenience stores, and other places to collect money and buy these guns. Or even worse stole money though ID thieves, really too many ways to raise money anyway. One way, to make you understand exact whats going on, like I explained about NYS having highest cig taxes, one could smuggle to NYS and sell em raise money fast and build networks with crooks, then can buy arms illegally. The more crooks knows other crooks, the better chances they obtain firearms illegally. It really don't take much for them.

Foxrac said:
The guns from black market usually cost more, I recall about learned from Jiro, so the people with low income may unable to afford and they, especially legal citizens don't want obtain the gun illegally. I don't know about criminals, but drug dealers are more rich and they may afford to buy gun illegally and sometime, the criminals use guns that stolen from somewhere, including families.

New York has Native Indian reservation that where you can buy cigarettes at cheaper, so they subjected to federal law and tribal law only - I think it is in Mohawk Valley.

Oh well about between you and NYS government. For political - I'm not concerned about gun rights because there are many issues that we have to address, especially fiscal issues. Due to politically divided between republican and democrat, I'm not going to give up the support for gay marriage in exchange for support gun rights.
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diehardbiker said:
Of course, always cost more in black markets. Criminals would rob convenience stores, and other places to collect money and buy these guns. Or even worse stole money though ID thieves, really too many ways to raise money anyway. One way, to make you understand exact whats going on, like I explained about NYS having highest cig taxes, one could smuggle to NYS and sell em raise money fast and build networks with crooks, then can buy arms illegally. The more crooks knows other crooks, the better chances they obtain firearms illegally. It really don't take much for them.
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There are very few criminals in my family and all of them got gun that stolen from us.
 
Wondering why I wasn't surprised.

How about, asking them whether tighten gun law will prevent them from getting guns? You may be surprise of their answer.

Foxrac said:
There are very few criminals in my family and all of them got gun that stolen from us.
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Done wrote letter to my congress about gun control, told her not to infringe our rights to 2nd amendment, and make all ex felony convicts lose that rights.
 
diehardbiker said:
Wondering why I wasn't surprised.

How about, asking them whether tighten gun law will prevent them from getting guns? You may be surprise of their answer.
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I never meet any criminals in my family, so nearly all died or got away.
 
diehardbiker said:
That's too bad, but got away? They need to catch and brought back to justice! I hate those who escape from justice!
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No, they committed crime in 60's and 70's, that was long time and I believed that they served the sentence.
 
Im only concern those who got away which is not acceptable. Served and "got away" is two different issues. I have no problem with those that serve the justice but lose rights to 2nd Amendment.

Foxrac said:
No, they committed crime in 60's and 70's, that was long time and I believed that they served the sentence.
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diehardbiker said:
Im only concern those who got away which is not acceptable. Served and "got away" is two different issues. I have no problem with those that serve the justice but lose rights to 2nd Amendment.
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I refer "go away" as left the families before I was born.

Today only one person that I know is in jail - it is my cousin and he got charged with burglary, so he didn't bring any guns and he was so drugged (addicted to heroin).
 
Oh okay, sad about Heroin, but glad it is not Meth. I think Meth is much worse than Heroin and I hope he stays away from Meth.

Not all criminals carry guns, some does not want to carry gun cause they are smart enough avoid lifetime prison. Often when criminals get caught, those without gun usually gets lesser sentence than those who were found with guns on their filthy hands.

Foxrac said:
I refer "go away" as left the families before I was born.

Today only one person that I know is in jail - it is my cousin and he got charged with burglary, so he didn't bring any guns and he was so drugged (addicted to heroin).
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diehardbiker said:
Oh okay, sad about Heroin, but glad it is not Meth. I think Meth is much worse than Heroin and I hope he stays away from Meth.

Not all criminals carry guns, some does not want to carry gun cause they are smart enough avoid lifetime prison. Often when criminals get caught, those without gun usually gets lesser sentence than those who were found with guns on their filthy hands.
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Yup, burglary with firearm - going be 20 years in state prison - in state of Georgia, but for without one - maybe 5 to 10 years.

That wasn't far away from Atlanta.
 
Not a current stat, but at least from DOJ and post Brady.

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

source: Firearms and Crime Statistics
 
soulchill said:
Not a current stat, but at least from DOJ and post Brady.

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

source: Firearms and Crime Statistics
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that's why NRA is pushing for Project Exile and it has my full support.

FYI - Project Exile is imposing a harsher and longer penalty without possibility of parole or probation for felons caught with guns.

as for gun show... thank you for proving my point that the fear about handful of criminals getting guns from gun shows is unfound and irrational. this doesn't warrant any further legislative action. I see that the biggest culprit is family/friend as well as illegal street buy but how come?

a simple explanation - poor safekeeping. I have absolutely no problem with a new law mandating a gun safe for every household with guns. It's already a law in just about all states that gun owner will be held criminally responsible if a minor had an access to firearm. now... a gun should be only accessible to its gun owner and nobody else especially in urban area.
 
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