NRA offensive exposes deep U.S. divisions on guns

[Jiro]

Never take US Supreme Court as too liberally or too easy, because the judges are usually divide on issues. I have no easy thinking about same sex marriage case in the US Supreme Court because it could be good news or bad news. If the judge with 2nd Amendment support dies so Obama may appoint the judge that are more liberal, anti-gun. The 2 landmark ruling on 2 cities - DC and Chicago because they banned on guns, that's one of most severe gun control, or extreme gun control - those two cases went beyond the constitution and they struck the gun ban down.

what? I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think you understand this issue well.

For example, if state legislative passes the state law to make require all gun owners to register the guns with state database. I don't know if mandatory registration for all guns are constitutional or unconstitutional, that's different from full gun bans. That why we don't take US Supreme Court as too easy thinking.

It looks like I may misinterpreting about what were you said in past - so I found one - http://www.alldeaf.com/1611191-post49.html. (see last paragraph)

probably best if you let people who know this subject well do the talking......

Yes, let funds completely to follow the existing law.

yea let's.

 

[Foxrac]

what? I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think you understand this issue well.


probably best if you let people who know this subject well do the talking......


yea let's.

Oh my god, I think my post should be VERY EASY to understand.

Let look at US Supreme Court - there are 4 conservatives, 4 liberals, 1 moderate (swing). Total = 9 judges.

DC case
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Majority - Scalia, joined by Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito (all are conservatives, except for Kennedy that is more swing)
Dissent - Stevens, joined by Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer (all are liberals)
Dissent - Breyer, joined by Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg (all are liberals)

Final: The gun ban law in DC got struck down as unconstitutional by 5-4. That's major victory for NRA and gun supporters.

Other case about Chicago:
McDonald v. Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Majority - Alito, joined by Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy (all); Thomas (all except parts II-C, IV and V) (all are conservatives, except for Kennedy that is more swing)
Concurrence - Scalia (conservative)
Concurrence - Thomas (conservative)
Dissent - Stevens (liberal)
Dissent - Breyer, joined by Ginsburg, Sotomayor (all are liberals)

Final: The gun ban in Chicago got struck down as unconstitutional by 5-4. That's major victory for NRA.

In case, for example, if Scalia dies from natural cause so Obama decides to appoint the new judge - it will be likely to be liberal, anti-gun judge to make US Supreme Court switches from conservative to liberal (5 liberals, 3 conservatives, 1 moderate).

For example, if city councils in city of San Francisco passes the bill to ban on guns. NRA decides to sue in the federal court. After processed with federal court and the appeals court, NRA decide to appeal to US Supreme Court. They decide to hear on SF case. All of 5 liberal judges will going upheld SF ban on guns as constitutional and they will say - it doesn't violate the Second Amendment.

What's result with NRA - they will be extremely unhappy.

Let next...

I know about those subjects very well and I have a lot of interest about legal studies. I learned a lot about how US Supreme Court works. I felt that you may not understand my hypocritical question. I'm just asking - is it unconstitutional for state of New Jersey to pass the mandatory registration that require all gun owners to register all guns into state database or register with police station? Yes or No

I don't take those case as too easy.

I think it is best for Reba to check my post and I believe that she may understand mine better.

 

[Jiro]

Oh my god, I think my post should be VERY EASY to understand.

Let look at US Supreme Court - there are 4 conservatives, 4 liberals, 1 moderate (swing). Total = 9 judges.

DC case
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Majority - Scalia, joined by Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito (all are conservatives, except for Kennedy that is more swing)
Dissent - Stevens, joined by Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer (all are liberals)
Dissent - Breyer, joined by Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg (all are liberals)

Final: The gun ban law in DC got struck down as unconstitutional by 5-4. That's major victory for NRA and gun supporters.

Other case about Chicago:
McDonald v. Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Majority - Alito, joined by Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy (all); Thomas (all except parts II-C, IV and V) (all are conservatives, except for Kennedy that is more swing)
Concurrence - Scalia (conservative)
Concurrence - Thomas (conservative)
Dissent - Stevens (liberal)
Dissent - Breyer, joined by Ginsburg, Sotomayor (all are liberals)

Final: The gun ban in Chicago got struck down as unconstitutional by 5-4. That's major victory for NRA.

In case, for example, if Scalia dies from natural cause so Obama decides to appoint the new judge - it will be likely to be liberal, anti-gun judge to make US Supreme Court switches from conservative to liberal (5 liberals, 3 conservatives, 1 moderate).

For example, if city councils in city of San Francisco passes the bill to ban on guns. NRA decides to sue in the federal court. After processed with federal court and the appeals court, NRA decide to appeal to US Supreme Court. They decide to hear on SF case. All of 5 liberal judges will going upheld SF ban on guns as constitutional and they will say - it doesn't violate the Second Amendment.

What's result with NRA - they will be extremely unhappy.

Let next...

I know about those subjects very well and I have a lot of interest about legal studies. I learned a lot about how US Supreme Court works. I felt that you may not understand my hypocritical question. I'm just asking - is it unconstitutional for state of New Jersey to pass the mandatory registration that require all gun owners to register all guns into state database or register with police station? Yes or No

I don't take those case as too easy.

I think it is best for Reba to check my post and I believe that she may understand mine better.

there you go.... 5-4 victory twice.... and the ruling will stay that way for a very long time. Supreme Court rarely revisits the same issue until decades later.

that's why I'm about your response about Supreme Court ruling being too easy or something.

 

[Foxrac]

there you go.... 5-4 victory twice.... and the ruling will stay that way for a very long time. Supreme Court rarely revisits the same issue until decades later.

Oh really?

If majority of liberal judges (5-4, assume if Obama appoints liberal judge after conservative judge dies) so they will very likely to review and hear the case.

There were two gun cases that got struck down - in between 2 years - 2008 and 2010.

Did you see my last question?

Other question - which cities that have all gun ban in effective? (Chicago and DC are no longer existed)

 

[Jiro]

Oh really?

If majority of liberal judges (5-4, assume if Obama appoints liberal judge after conservative judge dies) so they will very likely to review and hear the case.

There were two gun cases that got struck down - in between 2 years - 2008 and 2010.

Did you see my last question?

Other question - which cities that have all gun ban in effective? (Chicago and DC are no longer existed)

probably all major cities especially in blue states. I believe right now, there's a pending case against Maryland. I believe New Jersey and New York are next, assuming they win against Maryland.

 

[Foxrac]

that's why I'm about your response about Supreme Court ruling being too easy or something.

It is just attitude.

When any cities pass the gun ban so you will going say "WOW!!!! THE NEW CITY LAW WILL GOING STRIKE DOWN BY US SUPREME COURT - that's very, very, very easy to beat the law.

The liberal attitude (not political word) - you have very, very, very open mind, if any states or federal passes the gun control law so you will say - OH I KNOW ABOUT US SUPREME COURT WILL STRIKE IT DOWN - NO DOUBT and you will say - it is too obvious.

 

[Jiro]

It is just attitude.

When any cities pass the gun ban so you will going say "WOW!!!! THE NEW CITY LAW WILL GOING STRIKE DOWN BY US SUPREME COURT - that's very, very, very easy to beat the law.

The liberal attitude (not political word) - you have very, very, very open mind, if any states or federal passes the gun control law so you will say - OH I KNOW ABOUT US SUPREME COURT WILL STRIKE IT DOWN - NO DOUBT and you will say - it is too obvious.

what?

let's stick with facts for now...

 

[Foxrac]

what?

let's stick with facts for now...

I means emotion.

I have to make clarify - don't be too expected about US Supreme Court ruling.

It is called - "don't expect too much".

 

[TXgolfer]

That's why mass murderers chose those guns. Right?

The 2 biggest mass murders in our history were done by aircraft.

 

[Jiro]

I means emotion.

I have to make clarify - don't be too expected about US Supreme Court ruling.

It is called - "don't expect too much".

ok.......

I trust Supreme Court to do the right thing and interpret what the Constitution says and they did it right with DC and Chicago. I don't see this issue emotionally. neither does Supreme Court.

hence.... let's stick with facts for now...

 

[Jiro]

I'm just asking - is it unconstitutional for state of New Jersey to pass the mandatory registration that require all gun owners to register all guns into state database or register with police station? Yes or No

yes I believe it's unconstitutional but Supreme Court hasn't touch this yet. for now - there is no federal law prohibiting a state government from doing this and that's just sad.

in NJ - only handguns are required to be registered but not long guns.

 

[Foxrac]

ok.......

I trust Supreme Court to do the right thing to interpret what the Constitution says and they did it right with DC and Chicago. I don't see this issue emotionally. neither does Supreme Court.

hence.... let's stick with facts for now...

Ok, I think about want explain about emotion (facial expression) in VP and it will explains better than in text word. I'm not say about US Supreme Court has emotion, but just you and gun owners who have a lot of expect to interpret about what the constitution says.

Sure, the judges at US Supreme Court haven't changed since Obama appointed Kagan in 2010. It means NRA and pro-gun rights are safe for now. You can hope that Obama will appoint the judge that support gun rights after any judge dies.

 

[Jiro]

Ok, I think about want explain about emotion (facial expression) in VP and it will explains better than in text word. I'm not say about US Supreme Court has emotion, but just you and gun owners who have a lot of expect to interpret about what the constitution says.

Sure, the judges at US Supreme Court haven't changed since Obama appointed Kagan in 2010. It means NRA and pro-gun rights are safe for now. You can hope that Obama will appoint the judge that support gun rights after any judge dies.

Supreme Court judges are not supposed to be affiliated with political party. They're supposed to follow what the Constitution says. I believe the Supreme Court has a good share of fairly well-balanced with differing views.

 

[Foxrac]

yes I believe it's unconstitutional but Supreme Court hasn't touch this yet. for now - there is no federal law prohibiting a state government from doing this and that's just sad.

in NJ - only handguns are required to be registered but not long guns.

For me - unsure...

If it was federal law, so I could strike it down under Tenth Amendment - state rights.

Oh interesting about gun laws in NJ.

 

[Foxrac]

Supreme Court judges are not supposed to be affiliated with political party. They're supposed to follow what the Constitution says. I believe the Supreme Court has a good share of fairly well-balanced with differing views.

Yes, that what I'm thinking about it. I'm more concerned about judge activist.

If the judge ignores to the constitution so will lead to constitution crisis?

 

[Jiro]

For me - unsure...

If it was federal law, so I could strike it down under Tenth Amendment - state rights.

Oh interesting about gun laws in NJ.

I wouldn't worry about it. The federal government's use of federal firearm database has already been strictly limited for a very long time.

The Firearms Owners' Protection Act specifically prohibits using information collected on firearms under the act in any registration system. The act states as follows:

No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established (18 USC § 926(a)).

 

[Jiro]

Yes, that what I'm thinking about it. I'm more concerned about judge activist.

If the judge ignores to the constitution so will lead to constitution crisis?

I've never heard of such thing.

 

[CrazyPaul]

I've never heard of such thing.

For example, gay rights to marry...

 

[Foxrac]

I've never heard of such thing.

I'm just ask - IF.

What are happening to US Supreme Court if they didn't strike the gun ban down? I think you will know about them - the judges ignore to the constitution.

The constitutional crisis means the judges or government decide to ignore the constitution, like Obama wants to have a third term presidency but... US Constitution limits the presidency term limit to 2 - 8 years in total, for example.

 

[Reba]

...You can hope that Obama will appoint the judge that support gun rights after any judge dies.

You've mentioned "any judge dies" several times in this thread. Do you have some inside information on the health of our justices that we're not aware of? Is someone sick?