No proxy vp number

I can't believe people are still talking about Sorenson VP numbers being "fake" and saying they want "real" phone numbers. Let me put this very, very clearly.

High speed internet does not work on the phone system. Your VP does not have a phone number, it is connected to the internet, not a phone.

You cannot have a phone number for your VP because that's not the way technology works. Your VP only has an IP address, same for VOIP services like Vonage. Nobody who uses the internet for communications has a real phone number, what you have is a code that is 10 digits that tells the person what IP to connect to. That's all it is, not a phone number! This is why some people have VP numbers that are not available to dial with a phone. Let's say I know someone whose VP number is (212) 003-5268. You can't use a zero to start when you dial a phone. So it looks like a real number, but it's not.

As for opening the directory...that means opening it so people who use IP addresses (like webcam users) can also use these fake phone numbers. Instead of typing 244.85.36.50 to call my friend, I can just use her fake 212 number. The big "secret" is just what the number translates to. What if no VPs ever had anything but IP numbers? What if Sorenson didn't use this easy-to-remember 10-digit number? Well then we would all be dialing IP addresses and nobody would feel they were missing anything. Because that's all a Sorenson number is...a code that translates into an IP address. Same thing for My IP Relay. They use a phone number and it translates into an AIM name. Same thing. NONE of these are "real" phone numbers, if you pick up a regular phone and call, you cannot be connected to someone using AIM! You are on a phone and they are on the internet. Two different things.

The new DirectVP numbers from Sorenson are a step in the right direction, but they are not YOUR VP's number. When someone dials that number, the Sorenson system sees what number they were calling, and translates that into an IP address that is connected with that number. But you're still going through that translation process.

Now, the point of having these numbers is to make it easier to remember. If it is 10 digits, then we are very used to remembering that kind of number because we use it for phones. It also fits into software very nicely...anytime someone needs to record a phone number, the program lets them put in 10 digits, so these aliases ("fake" numbers) fit very well.

But VPs (and My IP Relay and Vonage) don't use "real" phone numbers. They use 10-digit codes that the software translates into an IP address and connects to you.

If I am misunderstanding the issue, please tell me. This has frustrated me for a long time that people don't know how VP connections work. They get very upset because they can't have a "real" number but they don't realize how it works and WHY they don't get a "real" number. I just want people to understand how it works. And of course if I am wrong, please correct me. :o
 
Etoile said:
I can't believe people are still talking about Sorenson VP numbers being "fake" and saying they want "real" phone numbers. Let me put this very, very clearly.

High speed internet does not work on the phone system. Your VP does not have a phone number, it is connected to the internet, not a phone.

You cannot have a phone number for your VP because that's not the way technology works. Your VP only has an IP address, same for VOIP services like Vonage. Nobody who uses the internet for communications has a real phone number, what you have is a code that is 10 digits that tells the person what IP to connect to. That's all it is, not a phone number! This is why some people have VP numbers that are not available to dial with a phone. Let's say I know someone whose VP number is (212) 003-5268. You can't use a zero to start when you dial a phone. So it looks like a real number, but it's not.

As for opening the directory...that means opening it so people who use IP addresses (like webcam users) can also use these fake phone numbers. Instead of typing 244.85.36.50 to call my friend, I can just use her fake 212 number. The big "secret" is just what the number translates to. What if no VPs ever had anything but IP numbers? What if Sorenson didn't use this easy-to-remember 10-digit number? Well then we would all be dialing IP addresses and nobody would feel they were missing anything. Because that's all a Sorenson number is...a code that translates into an IP address. Same thing for My IP Relay. They use a phone number and it translates into an AIM name. Same thing. NONE of these are "real" phone numbers, if you pick up a regular phone and call, you cannot be connected to someone using AIM! You are on a phone and they are on the internet. Two different things.

The new DirectVP numbers from Sorenson are a step in the right direction, but they are not YOUR VP's number. When someone dials that number, the Sorenson system sees what number they were calling, and translates that into an IP address that is connected with that number. But you're still going through that translation process.

Now, the point of having these numbers is to make it easier to remember. If it is 10 digits, then we are very used to remembering that kind of number because we use it for phones. It also fits into software very nicely...anytime someone needs to record a phone number, the program lets them put in 10 digits, so these aliases ("fake" numbers) fit very well.

But VPs (and My IP Relay and Vonage) don't use "real" phone numbers. They use 10-digit codes that the software translates into an IP address and connects to you.

If I am misunderstanding the issue, please tell me. This has frustrated me for a long time that people don't know how VP connections work. They get very upset because they can't have a "real" number but they don't realize how it works and WHY they don't get a "real" number. I just want people to understand how it works. And of course if I am wrong, please correct me. :o
Click to expand...

You misunderstood.

We know VP always will use ip addressing system and need to be linked into a Sorenson server to be able to contact you. But with the new upcoming system we can have a real phone number linked into our ip addressing system via relay service only.

So we can give out just 1 number to any hearing people we want and when they call this real phone number it will go to a relay service of our choosing or relay service we pick we want to use then the relay service system will bring up a list of options to contact you if it AIM or VP or Email etc.

But the old way - We get a real number and we are stuck with this relay service who provide us the real number.

New way - We get a real number and we keep it for lifetime even if we change relay service example we got real number from Sorenson but not happy with Sorenson so we want to switch to ipRelay and then Sorenson have to give up the number and let ipRelay take it over for us to the new FCC rule.


With real number we *still* have to use relay service but no more "800" relay number then hearing people have to tell relay service our VP number or ip address to contact us and 90 percent of hearing people don't want to deal with this hassle of dailing and telling another number.

Now hearing people dial a real number which contact to relay and relay already know which deaf person real number belong to instant on thier computer screen.

I been using ipRelay for over a year with a real number from them and it works very good. All hearing people try to contact me but if I am not at AIM or VP etc then they leave a message which is sent to me via email just like a hearing people answering machine. New FCC rules will greatly improve this and allowing more freedom with the real number instead of limiting you.


.
 
TechBill said:
You misunderstood.

We know VP always will use ip addressing system and need to be linked into a Sorenson server to be able to contact you. But with the new upcoming system we can have a real phone number linked into our ip addressing system via relay service only.

So we can give out just 1 number to any hearing people we want and when they call this real phone number it will go to a relay service of our choosing or relay service we pick we want to use then the relay service system will bring up a list of options to contact you if it AIM or VP or Email etc.

But the old way - We get a real number and we are stuck with this relay service who provide us the real number.

New way - We get a real number and we keep it for lifetime even if we change relay service example we got real number from Sorenson but not happy with Sorenson so we want to switch to ipRelay and then Sorenson have to give up the number and let ipRelay take it over for us to the new FCC rule.


With real number we *still* have to use relay service but no more "800" relay number then hearing people have to tell relay service our VP number or ip address to contact us and 90 percent of hearing people don't want to deal with this hassle of dailing and telling another number.

Now hearing people dial a real number which contact to relay and relay already know which deaf person real number belong to instant on thier computer screen.

I been using ipRelay for over a year with a real number from them and it works very good. All hearing people try to contact me but if I am not at AIM or VP etc then they leave a message which is sent to me via email just like a hearing people answering machine. New FCC rules will greatly improve this and allowing more freedom with the real number instead of limiting you.


.
Click to expand...

AHHHHHH. So when people talk about wanting a "real" number, what they are talking about is that they want portability. See, when I hear people talk about real vs. fake numbers, I think they are talking about a number that works with the phone system rather than a made-up number that doesn't (like my 212-003-1234 example). In all the times I have been seeing complaints about this issue, nobody ever said the word portability or described it like you have. Thank you! :ty::ty::ty:

My question for you though: Why are people mad at Sorenson about this? Why don't people get mad at My IP Relay about it, like they get mad at Sorenson? I see a lot of people mad at Sorenson and nobody mad at My IP Relay. :confused::confused::confused:

My goodness, I am so happy you described it properly for me, I feel SO much better now that I understand what the issue is! :D
 
TechBill said:
You misunderstood.

We know VP always will use ip addressing system and need to be linked into a Sorenson server to be able to contact you. But with the new upcoming system we can have a real phone number linked into our ip addressing system via relay service only.

So we can give out just 1 number to any hearing people we want and when they call this real phone number it will go to a relay service of our choosing or relay service we pick we want to use then the relay service system will bring up a list of options to contact you if it AIM or VP or Email etc.

But the old way - We get a real number and we are stuck with this relay service who provide us the real number.

New way - We get a real number and we keep it for lifetime even if we change relay service example we got real number from Sorenson but not happy with Sorenson so we want to switch to ipRelay and then Sorenson have to give up the number and let ipRelay take it over for us to the new FCC rule.


With real number we *still* have to use relay service but no more "800" relay number then hearing people have to tell relay service our VP number or ip address to contact us and 90 percent of hearing people don't want to deal with this hassle of dailing and telling another number.

Now hearing people dial a real number which contact to relay and relay already know which deaf person real number belong to instant on thier computer screen.

I been using ipRelay for over a year with a real number from them and it works very good. All hearing people try to contact me but if I am not at AIM or VP etc then they leave a message which is sent to me via email just like a hearing people answering machine. New FCC rules will greatly improve this and allowing more freedom with the real number instead of limiting you.


.
Click to expand...

That makes sense since I can understand what Tayler said in the Vlog :)
 
TechBill said:
You misunderstood.

We know VP always will use ip addressing system and need to be linked into a Sorenson server to be able to contact you. But with the new upcoming system we can have a real phone number linked into our ip addressing system via relay service only.

So we can give out just 1 number to any hearing people we want and when they call this real phone number it will go to a relay service of our choosing or relay service we pick we want to use then the relay service system will bring up a list of options to contact you if it AIM or VP or Email etc.

But the old way - We get a real number and we are stuck with this relay service who provide us the real number.

New way - We get a real number and we keep it for lifetime even if we change relay service example we got real number from Sorenson but not happy with Sorenson so we want to switch to ipRelay and then Sorenson have to give up the number and let ipRelay take it over for us to the new FCC rule.


With real number we *still* have to use relay service but no more "800" relay number then hearing people have to tell relay service our VP number or ip address to contact us and 90 percent of hearing people don't want to deal with this hassle of dailing and telling another number.

Now hearing people dial a real number which contact to relay and relay already know which deaf person real number belong to instant on thier computer screen.

I been using ipRelay for over a year with a real number from them and it works very good. All hearing people try to contact me but if I am not at AIM or VP etc then they leave a message which is sent to me via email just like a hearing people answering machine. New FCC rules will greatly improve this and allowing more freedom with the real number instead of limiting you.


.
Click to expand...

TechBill, I agree that No more Sorenson, OJO, Dlink directories. need open directory. SorensonVP users want to keep proxy number as new NP. I can't keep it. Because hearing caller use VRS in this number though tty or fax instead of VP. Many deafies dislike public ip number. DSL always change public ip address in few days.
 
Okay, I just watched the vlog! (I made my last post from my Blackberry so I hadn't seen the vlog yet.)

I understand #2 completely, that is the portability issue that TechBill explained. It makes perfect sense!

Now about #1...is this the 212-003-1234 issue that I mentioned? When they say "real" phone number do they mean one that follows all the rules for what phone numbers can or can't be? (Can't start with 0 or 1, etc) Is THAT the difference between "fake" and "real" numbers?

It is all becoming clear to me. Everything I said is still true, you still can't dial a phone and talk to someone over the internet, but the point is that I was talking about something completely different. My apologies. :o :o :o
 
dbarovian said:
TechBill, I agree that No more Sorenson, OJO, Dlink directories. need open directory. SorensonVP users want to keep proxy number as new NP. I can't keep it. Because hearing caller use VRS in this number though tty or fax instead of VP. Many deafies dislike public ip number. DSL always change public ip address in few days.
Click to expand...
I thought you are required to buy a static IP from your internet provider in order to use VP?
 
Etoile said:
I thought you are required to buy a static IP from your internet provider in order to use VP?
Click to expand...

Nah, but it seems strange for mine - my IP address has been the same for the last 3 months, it might be the static IP? :dunno:
 
Etoile said:
Okay, I just watched the vlog! (I made my last post from my Blackberry so I hadn't seen the vlog yet.)

I understand #2 completely, that is the portability issue that TechBill explained. It makes perfect sense!

Now about #1...is this the 212-003-1234 issue that I mentioned? When they say "real" phone number do they mean one that follows all the rules for what phone numbers can or can't be? (Can't start with 0 or 1, etc) Is THAT the difference between "fake" and "real" numbers?

It is all becoming clear to me. Everything I said is still true, you still can't dial a phone and talk to someone over the internet, but the point is that I was talking about something completely different. My apologies. :o :o :o
Click to expand...


You are correct "portability" is what we're talking about.

It is nice of relay service to offer us real number number to give to hearing people to have a direct contact to our VP or AIM etc via relay service but right now that "feature" is limited to only relay service you got the number from which is a "no no" by FCC rules.

So now FCC is saying that number must be transferrable to any relay service of your choosing and belong to you until you don't want it anymore.

I don't think anyone is mad at Sorenson, I was just using Sorenson and IPrelay as an example of tranferring number between relay service.

So the real number we get is what we should be able to keep in our lifetime like what hearing people are allowed with their cell phone or landline phone numbers states the FCC laws making us equal to hearing people's "portability"



.
 
Etoile said:
I thought you are required to buy a static IP from your internet provider in order to use VP?
Click to expand...


No static ip is needed since your VP is linked to their home server and a proxy number is provided to your VP so they know what is your ip address even if it changes all the time as long it stay connect to their home server or "mothership" most geek calls it.


Same with Ojo is also connects to home server "mothership" to keep track of your ip address and know where to reach you on the internet.

Some VP or webcam you have to inform other of your ip address because it does not have a home server to connect to unless you use webcam with viable software which connect to viable home server and can keep track where you reach you on internet.



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TechBill said:
No static ip is needed since your VP is linked to their home server and a proxy number is provided to your VP so they know what is your ip address even if it changes all the time as long it stay connect to their home server or "mothership" most geek calls it.


Same with Ojo is also connects to home server "mothership" to keep track of your ip address and know where to reach you on the internet.

Some VP or webcam you have to inform other of your ip address because it does not have a home server to connect to unless you use webcam with viable software which connect to viable home server and can keep track where you reach you on internet.



.
Click to expand...

Ahh, that makes sense now :D
 
You may go to NAD in Silver Spring, MD on June 26


The demonstration, to occur at the National Association of the Deaf headquarters in Silver Spring, MD, will exhibit a technology solution that is relatively inexpensive and quick to implement for any relay provider.

"Delivering 10-digit numbering is a critical step in providing relay users with functionally equivalent calling services and essential emergency calling (e911) access which together have thus far been denied to online relay users," said Kelby Brick, vice president of regulatory and strategic policy for GoAmerica, which provides relay services under the Hands On VRS(R), i711.com(R), and IP-Relay(TM) brands. "We applaud the FCC ruling which demonstrates a commitment to ensure that relay users will enjoy the same level of accessibility and safety that hearing users have had for years."

"A hundred years ago the U.S. concluded that telephone networks for hearing persons should be interconnected to ensure easy calling between telephone users, regardless of their chosen telephone network," said David Huntley, Senior Vice President of Customer Information Services at AT&T. "In the same way -- and for the first time -- relay providers are agreeing to interconnect their networks, effectively advancing the same convenience for deaf and hard of hearing callers."

About Ten-Digit Numbering

As described in yesterday's FCC ruling, ten-digit numbering offers to deaf and hard of hearing relay users a real, ten-digit number that can be dialed from any voice telephone to reach the intended relay user. These numbers are critical in providing users access to emergency calling services through 911. Real 10-digit numbers provided through this solution are accessible by callers from any relay provider that shares access to its user directory.

"Real ten-digit numbers eliminate the cumbersome dialing instructions and procedures required to make voice-to-video calls today," added Brick. "If a hearing person wants to call me on my videophone, he just dials my number the same as he would for any other call. The ten-digit number will work for everyone -- deaf, hard of hearing, and hearing people -- and with any participating device or service."

Broad Consumer Support

"Every relay provider should take active steps to ensure that their services are fully accessible for the community they serve," said Nancy Bloch, executive director of the National Association of the Deaf. "I congratulate the AT&T and GoAmerica for moving ahead aggressively to establish this accessibility."

"It's encouraging to see group efforts to jumpstart the process to establish a telephone numbering system which will enable consumers who are deaf, hard of hearing, or speech-disabled, to have access to enhanced 911 services," said Sheri Farinha-Mutti, CEO of the NorCal Center on Deafness. "Lives are at stake, and we can't afford to wait."

Ms. Bloch and Ms. Farinha-Mutti will each take part in the 10-digit number demonstration.

Demonstration, Pricing, and Availability

GoAmerica and AT&T will demonstrate the 10-digit numbering solution on Thursday, June 26, 2008 at the headquarters of the National Association of the Deaf at 8630 Fenton Street, Suite 820 in Silver Spring, Maryland.

The demo will show two 10-digit video calls. First, Sheri Farinha-Mutti will receive a call from a hearing caller through a 10-digit number. Then, Ms. Farinha-Mutti and Nancy Bloch, each a customer of a different VRS provider, will connect through a video-to-video call using a 10-digit number.

GoAmerica anticipates it will begin distributing local 10-digit numbers to relay users for free in July.
 
You know, Etoile, there's VIOP and many are able to make phone call using a telephone over the internet via Vonage - VoIP Internet Phone Service for Home, Business and International Calling: Vonage – A Better Way to Phone for Less or any particular company... so they require equipment in addition to modem to send and receive phone call.

Like hearing can do with Skype official website – free download and free calls and internet calls or Gizmo5 Mobile via their computer desktop and headphone or webcam(which has mic built in)

So videophone is basically like Vonage but Sorenson used a proxy number instead of real number like Vonage do.
 
So videophone is basically like Vonage but Sorenson used a proxy number instead of real number like Vonage do.[/QUOTE]

Prefect!
 
Now about #1...is this the 212-003-1234 issue that I mentioned? When they say "real" phone number do they mean one that follows all the rules for what phone numbers can or can't be? (Can't start with 0 or 1, etc) Is THAT the difference between "fake" and "real" numbers?
Click to expand...

Not quite a VP user yet - I just got an email saying I should be getting my Ojo soon. But for me, it's not even so much about portability as it is transparency. If I can give hearing people a phone number that they can call that connects to VRS and then to me, that's great; my understanding is that for many VP providers, under the current system, they'd have to call a phone number, then enter my "VP number". Which works, but takes explanation, doesn't fit on some forms, is cumbersome on a business card, and so on. It's a hassle, and makes it that much less likely that Joe Hearing is going to call me.

That, and if I'm a VCO user, I can make outgoing calls where the hearing user is unaware that I'm doing anything special. Having a real phone number would mean I take take incoming calls the same way.
 
ismi said:
Not quite a VP user yet - I just got an email saying I should be getting my Ojo soon. But for me, it's not even so much about portability as it is transparency. If I can give hearing people a phone number that they can call that connects to VRS and then to me, that's great; my understanding is that for many VP providers, under the current system, they'd have to call a phone number, then enter my "VP number". Which works, but takes explanation, doesn't fit on some forms, is cumbersome on a business card, and so on. It's a hassle, and makes it that much less likely that Joe Hearing is going to call me.

That, and if I'm a VCO user, I can make outgoing calls where the hearing user is unaware that I'm doing anything special. Having a real phone number would mean I take take incoming calls the same way.
Click to expand...

Good question about VCO user. I work for HOVRS. I will discuss with my supervisor about new MVP and VideoSign 3.0. I will explain about VCO later.
 
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