New Australian law to make Muslims lift veils

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Chevy57

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CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Muslim women would have to remove veils and show their faces to police on request or ri a prison sentence under proposed new laws in Australia's most populous state that have drawn criticism as culturally insensitive.
A vigorous debate that the proposal has triggered reflects the cultural clashes being ignited by the growing influx of Muslim immigrants and the unease that visible symbols of Islam are causing in predominantly white Christian Australia since 1973 when the government relaxed its immigration policy.
Under the law proposed by the government of New South Wales, a woman who defies police by refusing to remove her f veil could be sentenced to a year in prison and fined 5,500 Australian dollars ($5,900).
The bill — to be voted on by state parliament in August — has been condemned by civil libertarians and many Muslims a an overreaction to a traffic offense case involving a Muslim woman driver in a "niqab," or a veil that reveals only the eye
The government says the law would require motorists and criminal suspects to remove any head coverings so that police can identify them.
Critics say the bill smacks of anti-Muslim bias given how few women in Australia wear burqas. In a population of 23 million, only about 400,000 Australians are Muslim. Community advocates estimate that fewer than 2,000 women wea face veils, and it is likely that even a smaller percentage drives.
"It does seem to be very heavy handed, and there doesn't seem to be a need," said Australian Council for Civil Liberties spokesman David Bernie said. "It shows some cultural insensitivity."
The controversy over the veils is similar to the debate in other Western countries over whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear garments that hide their face in public. France and Belgium have outright banned face covering veils in public. Typical arguments are that there is a need to prevent women from being forced into wearing veils by their famili or that public security requires people to be identifiable.
Bernie points out that while a bandit disguised by a veil and sunglasses had robbed a Sydney convenience store last year there were no Australian crime trends involving Muslim women's clothing.
"It is a religious issue here," said Mouna Unnjinal, a mother of five who has been driving in Sydney in a niqab for 18 yea and never been booked for a traffic offense.
"We're going to feel very intimidated and our privacy is being invaded," she added.
Unnjinal said she would not hesitate to show her face to a policewoman. But she fears racist male police officers might misuse the law to deliberately intimidate Muslim women.
"If I'm pulled over by a policeman, I might say I want to see a female police lady and he says, 'No, I want to see your face Unnjinal said. "Where does that leave me? Do I get penalized 5,000 dollars and sent to jail for 12 months because I wouldn't?"

Sydney's best-selling The Daily Telegraph newspaper declared the proposal "the world's toughest burqa laws." In Franc wearing a burqa — the all-covering garment that hides the entire body except eyes and hands — in public is punishable a euro150 ($217) fine only.
New South Wales state Cabinet decided to create the law July 4 in response to Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione's c for greater police powers. Other states including Victoria and Western Australia are also considering similar legislation.
"I don't care whether a person is wearing a motorcycle helmet, a burqa, niqab, face veil or anything else — the police should be allowed to require those people to make their identification clear," State Premier Barry O'Farrell said in a statement.
The laws were motivated by the bungled prosecution of Carnita Matthews, a 47-year-old Muslim mother of seven who w booked by a highway patrolman for a minor traffic infringement in Sydney in June last year.
An official complaint was made in Matthews' name against Senior Constable Paul Fogarty, the policeman who gave her ticket. The complaint accused Fogarty of racism and of attempting to tear off her veil during their roadside encounter.
Unbeknown to Matthews, the encounter was recorded by a camera inside Fogarty's squad car. The video footage showe her aggressively berating a restrained Fogarty and did not support her claim that he tried to grab her veil before she reluctantly and angrily lifted it to show her face.
Matthews was sentenced in November to six months in jail for making a deliberately false statement to police.
But that conviction and sentence were quashed on appeal last month without her serving any time in jail because a judg was not convinced that it was Matthews who signed the false statutory declaration. The woman who signed the documen had worn a burqa and a justice of the peace who witnessed the signing had not looked beneath the veil to confirm her identity.
Bernie, the civil libertarian, said the proposed law panders to public anger against Muslims that the case generated in ta radio and tabloid newspapers, which itself is a symptom of the suspicion with which immigrants are viewed.
Muslims are among the fastest growing minorities in Australia and mostly live in the two largest cities, Sydney and Melbourne. There are many examples to suggest they are not entirely welcome.
Muslim and non-Muslim youths rioted for days at Sydney's Cronulla beach in 2005, drawing international attention to surging ethnic tensions. Proposals to build Islamic schools are resisted by local protest groups. The convictions of a Sydney gang of Lebanese Muslims who raped several non-Muslim women were likened by a judge to war atrocities and condemned in the media.
In 2006, then-Prime Minister John Howard published a book in which he said Muslims were Australia's first wave of immigrants to fail to assimilate with the mainstream.
Government leaders have also condemned some Muslim clerics who said husbands are entitled to smack disobedient wives, force them to have sex and for suggesting that women who don't hide their faces behind veils invite rape.
"I wouldn't like to go and say this is Muslim bashing," said Ikebal Patel, president of the Australian Federation of Islami Councils, of the proposed New South Wales laws.
"But I think that the timing of this was really bad for Muslims," he said.

New Australian law to make Muslims lift veils - Yahoo! News

Good! US should follow this law.
 
Good!, time to show them women bashing is not tolerated, and that muslim men can't get away with bashing, by telling wives to hide their bruised faces in western non musli conutry , their religion is NOT above OUR western law!
i support this move.
 
Good!, time to show them women bashing is not tolerated, and that muslim men can't get away with bashing, by telling wives to hide their bruised faces in western non musli conutry , their religion is NOT above OUR western law!
i support this move.

Certainly breaking the law is not permissible but there are over a billion muslims on this planet and a vast majority of them are not like as you described above.
 
I disagree with this the way the article reads. Many if not most Muslim women choose to cover, for one thing <not all Muslim men are abusive and "make" the women wear the veil or the whole thing>. What about Orthodox/Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women who dress very conservatively and may be quite covered up?
what about nuns wearing all that stuff?
where is the law that addresses that?

and based on that, what training would the officers have to determine that the woman in question IS actually Muslim? how could it be so that it was not arbitrarily enforced - "driving while black" becomes "driving or walking while Muslim"?

this has nothing to do with whose religion is "ours" or "yours" - that is already an ego statement. This law and what seems to be the premise behind appears <again, from how the article puts it> to be singling out Muslim - or perceived--to-be-Muslim people from other groups.
:(
 
To be equitable, the law should require every person to show his or her complete face when required by officials for identification purposes. If everyone has to show the face for identification, then it doesn't matter if it's a Muslim or Catholic or atheist.
 
Even this guy has to show his face!

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I think you'll find most people would comply but Muslims would not because of religion. They had to bring in a special law to force them to comply.
 
Many stores in the US do not allow you to enter their stores with face covered. I know bikers have to remove the ski mask before going into a store around here.
 
sound interesting law change improve strict!
 
Certainly breaking the law is not permissible but there are over a billion muslims on this planet and a vast majority of them are not like as you described above.

is it possible spousal abuse occurs more often than they'd like it to be? I would think so, they have STONING to death, and forced marriages on young girls to OLD men, come on dont be That naive, i have encountered in real life, Indians to be really snotty, even quite dangerous, as does the muslims. They may be peace loving and yet can and do actual extreme terrorism it has happened before. Not trustworthy, even right here at the local university, I have witnesses the bossing around, or stern disapproval for muslim women to mix with foreigners, like they changed freindly to 'too busy' behaviour so quick (in cafes') its not funny at all...it really makes me wonder whats their idea of abuse - honesty i dont think they have a faintest idea, all because of that stupid religion, its so 1,000 years behind, really not need in the 21st century...
 
To be equitable, the law should require every person to show his or her complete face when required by officials for identification purposes. If everyone has to show the face for identification, then it doesn't matter if it's a Muslim or Catholic or atheist.

Not in US because our constitution protects the religious freedom and Muslim women are free to roam around public area with veil or cover their head.
 
Many stores in the US do not allow you to enter their stores with face covered. I know bikers have to remove the ski mask before going into a store around here.

Muslim women are usually exempt due to religious reason.
 
is it possible spousal abuse occurs more often than they'd like it to be? I would think so, they have STONING to death, and forced marriages on young girls to OLD men, come on dont be That naive, i have encountered in real life, Indians to be really snotty, even quite dangerous, as does the muslims. They may be peace loving and yet can and do actual extreme terrorism it has happened before. Not trustworthy, even right here at the local university, I have witnesses the bossing around, or stern disapproval for muslim women to mix with foreigners, like they changed freindly to 'too busy' behaviour so quick (in cafes') its not funny at all...it really makes me wonder whats their idea of abuse - honesty i dont think they have a faintest idea, all because of that stupid religion, its so 1,000 years behind, really not need in the 21st century...

Plenty of non-muslims women are abused, too. Not all Muslims practice the things you've described in their religion. And oh...non-Muslims can be terrorists, too.
 
One's personal right ends when it causes another person's rights is fringed...in this case, a person's right to safety trumps the person's right to religious practices.
 
Plenty of non-muslims women are abused, too. Not all Muslims practice the things you've described in their religion. And oh...non-Muslims can be terrorists, too.

yes, but right now they are thr number one threat even you should know that
 
If they don't like the laws, there are plenty of muslim countries for them to go back!!
 
would you also say that about Christians? considering IF for example - as it has been sometimes stated by some people in U.S. - the proposed claim that the U.S. "is a Christian nation"

the issue I still see is that this law singles out a specific group and plays on people's fear and stereotypes of Muslims. Muslim does not equal "terrorist" any more than Christian equals right-wing or Klan, Jewish equals banking/ "money schemes", Hindu equals non-violent. The point is that there are people of all backgrounds doing and being all kinds of things. Individual Muslims have as much right to live where they choose as someone who is not Muslim.
 
Ok, I am very anti-Muslim bashing but I do have to agree that we can't be so culturally sensitive that we allow a religious group to break the law just because of religious beliefs. That happens in places like Holland where the government and social services would turn a blind eye and deaf ear to stories of rape and abuse within muslim communities because they didn't want to be "culturally insensitive". Religious beliefs does not and should not be exempt from laws designed to protect the citizens of society. Rape is rape, abuse is abuse, and no religious belief can possibly justify that as exempt from laws. And frankly, muslim women are going to have to respect that the police needs to see their identity to verify who they are, and perhaps there's a way to accomodate such as having muslim women drop their veils to female cops only as a form of reasonable accomodation.
 
Show Me Your Face!

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