My Map....

LadySekhmet said:
I will try my best to explain everything in words and hopefully everyone understand how to read your map. For those who don't see it...ASK your audiologist to show it to you. It's so stupid if they're not showing it to you!

Now, On top - #68, #67, #51, etc etc. are the map numbers. If I can recall correctly, the audiologist can reach to the first couple of maps to compare. These numbers aren't exactly important, but it does tell what's the number of mapping has occurred.

Below that is the important part. 22 to 5 is the number of electrodes that are seen - 1 to 4 is on the far right, it's hidden until the user scrolls over to the right.

There SHOULD be three colored bars. Blue, Red, and Green. Blue is the result of the NRT. It should have been done during surgery and/or AFTER activated. I seriously think everyone should have this done. It may be a little painful (noise painful, not physically...unless if you have overly sensitive nerves). OverthePond only had 4 Blue bars. Honestly, she really should have EVERY single electrode tested.

The red bars *theorectically* should meet up with the blue bars after the NRT. There will be cases where the red bars will be above or below the blue, but it shouldn't be that far apart. This is how they test on children because of lack of responses from the child.

The green bars are shown on each electrode. The numbers (172, 173, etc etc), I am not exactly sure what THOSE numbers mean, but I think it has to do where the frequencies fall on (which is shown on the far left). 0 to 250 is shown on the far left. The green bars are pretty much the comfort levels before it starts to get too quiet.

The red bars are above that. These are the tolerate levels. They're the maximum of loudness in that electrode that the patient can tolerate.

The numbers in BETWEEN the bars is the DR. It's NOT the same throughout, it's depends on the electrode, the user's tolerance, etc. For Overthepond it ranges between 35 and 49. The higher frequencies has the lower DR. The betweens (electrodes 17 and 10) have the higher DR. Her low frequencies also have a bit of low DR. In comparison, my DR in the lows is pretty high, but in the high frequencies it's low.

Overthepond's Electrode number 14 is turned off because it's faded out. For mine, it was number 12.

The rest of the information is pretty much personalized to her own needs/CI. Such as Pulse rate, Maxima, Strategy, etc. These stuff you have to ask your audiologist to see.

My Pulse Rate is the highest possible, ACE is the strategy (there's three...ACE, Speak and CIS). But that's pretty much all I know.

Hope someone learned something new!
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Lady,

This was a great description. I had no problem understanding you. :ty: for taking the time to explain all of this to me. I'm going to print out your post for future reference. Even though I can't see the computer myself, I still think this is helpful to know. :ty: again. :)

By the way, it would be AWESOME if I could feel a graphic of the information Charlotte posted. There are tactile graphics and raised line drawing kits, but those require people to create them manually.
 
Hi,

The numbers that you see display over 100 is the current level the green or Threshold is the lowest level of current needed before the user can sense a signal and the red is the comfort level, the highest current level that is a loud sound representation to the user. The dynamic range is really the electrical dynamic range which has a close relationship to sound dynamic range.

One of many sources that you can look up:
Mapping for Dummies



DeafLissa90 said:
why is the numbers over 100 on the red and green bars? sorry about the questions, im trying to understand this
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Thank you for your help Lady and i am glad it could help Hearagain. I appericate it. Few things I have just remembered, Yesterday i had very full day and was pretty cloudy and wasn't clear on few things and forgot few things. And Lady had pointed out few things

LadySekhmet said:
I will try my best to explain everything in words and hopefully everyone understand how to read your map. For those who don't see it...ASK your audiologist to show it to you. It's so stupid if they're not showing it to you!

Excatly, I agree with you Lady, everyone has rights to see their Mappings as it's THEIRS!!

Now, On top - #68, #67, #51, etc etc. are the map numbers. If I can recall correctly, the audiologist can reach to the first couple of maps to compare. These numbers aren't exactly important, but it does tell what's the number of mapping has occurred.

Below that is the important part. 22 to 5 is the number of electrodes that are seen - 1 to 4 is on the far right, it's hidden until the user scrolls over to the right.

There SHOULD be three colored bars. Blue, Red, and Green. Blue is the result of the NRT. It should have been done during surgery and/or AFTER activated. I seriously think everyone should have this done. It may be a little painful (noise painful, not physically...unless if you have overly sensitive nerves). OverthePond only had 4 Blue bars. Honestly, she really should have EVERY single electrode tested.

I had every electrode tested when i was under, this is my recent ones (6 month) As i didn't like having it done at all at 3 months so they wanted to quick one at 6 months as i was tolerating it well they'll do full one at my annual but every time i had tune up I had impedance (sp) test which checks every electrodes. does that make any difference?? I have 3 beeps test where i check the levels of loudness/quietness of each electrodes so this pretty much checks that my electrodes is working isn't it??

The red bars *theorectically* should meet up with the blue bars after the NRT. There will be cases where the red bars will be above or below the blue, but it shouldn't be that far apart. This is how they test on children because of lack of responses from the child.

The green bars are shown on each electrode. The numbers (172, 173, etc etc), I am not exactly sure what THOSE numbers mean, but I think it has to do where the frequencies fall on (which is shown on the far left). 0 to 250 is shown on the far left. The green bars are pretty much the comfort levels before it starts to get too quiet.

The red bars are above that. These are the tolerate levels. They're the maximum of loudness in that electrode that the patient can tolerate.

The numbers in BETWEEN the bars is the DR. It's NOT the same throughout, it's depends on the electrode, the user's tolerance, etc. For Overthepond it ranges between 35 and 49. The higher frequencies has the lower DR. The betweens (electrodes 17 and 10) have the higher DR. Her low frequencies also have a bit of low DR. In comparison, my DR in the lows is pretty high, but in the high frequencies it's low.

thats interesting i never understood DR, how it works and the differences between DR in my highs/mids/lows... My Mids (11,12,13,14) had been turned off for nearly 8 months and the Audi weren't expecting me to do much at this stage as i had 11,12,13 turned back on yesterday and so far no problems.

Overthepond's Electrode number 14 is turned off because it's faded out. For mine, it was number 12.

The rest of the information is pretty much personalized to her own needs/CI. Such as Pulse rate, Maxima, Strategy, etc. These stuff you have to ask your audiologist to see.

My Pulse Rate is the highest possible, ACE is the strategy (there's three...ACE, Speak and CIS). But that's pretty much all I know.

Thats interesting, my Audi tried me on 1000 or 1200 (not sure which) and I said the quality of sound isn't good as before so she put me back on 900. She mentioned that 900 is common and the number they notice that majorty of CI recipets likes it and although they do offer higher rates but they always start with low as possible

Hope someone learned something new!

I have, thank you... It's interesting to see that alot of non CIers don't know what mappings is, there isn't one online and some of us cannot get mapping printed out without bribing the Audi (I did yesterday!!LOL, I think I'll have to start running now!! I have just agreed to run 10miles to raise money for the menigitis trust in Oct!!)
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The test that they do at every mapping in the beginning is just to see if your electrodes are functioning, that's all there is to it.

The NRT is done to see how your nerves REACT to that particular electrode. Not every body has their electrodes resting on the exact same spot, exact same nerve, and exact same response. It's kind of interesting if you think about it. I never had that done...I don't know why though. After it was done, my audiologist found that the red bars in the low frequencies were really far apart, and the high frequencies, it was actually above the blue. This is why they do it for kids mostly.
 
HearAgain - It shouldn't be a problem to try to emboss the graph for you. I would love to do it. :) Just give me a couple days and we'll share info via PM. I think it's important because then you'll be able to feel them. It would be even more cooler if you send me a screenshot of YOUR mapping! Ask your audi next time. It's not that difficult, you just need to press PRNT Scrn button, then paste it in painter program or whatever, then save as JPEG.

Hugs
 
LadySekhmet said:
HearAgain - It shouldn't be a problem to try to emboss the graph for you. I would love to do it. :) Just give me a couple days and we'll share info via PM. I think it's important because then you'll be able to feel them. It would be even more cooler if you send me a screenshot of YOUR mapping! Ask your audi next time. It's not that difficult, you just need to press PRNT Scrn button, then paste it in painter program or whatever, then save as JPEG.

Hugs
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Brilliant idea...
 
LadySekhmet said:
HearAgain - It shouldn't be a problem to try to emboss the graph for you. I would love to do it. :) Just give me a couple days and we'll share info via PM. I think it's important because then you'll be able to feel them. It would be even more cooler if you send me a screenshot of YOUR mapping! Ask your audi next time. It's not that difficult, you just need to press PRNT Scrn button, then paste it in painter program or whatever, then save as JPEG.

Hugs
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:ty: Lady! That would be awesome! :D

I won't be seeing my audi for a couple weeks, but when I do, I'll ask her to print out a copy of my map and then save it to a program like Photoshop.

Send me a PM and we can work out the details. :)

Hugs back!
 
LadySekhmet said:
The test that they do at every mapping in the beginning is just to see if your electrodes are functioning, that's all there is to it.

The NRT is done to see how your nerves REACT to that particular electrode. Not every body has their electrodes resting on the exact same spot, exact same nerve, and exact same response. It's kind of interesting if you think about it. I never had that done...I don't know why though. After it was done, my audiologist found that the red bars in the low frequencies were really far apart, and the high frequencies, it was actually above the blue. This is why they do it for kids mostly.
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Lady,

Is the NRT the same thing as an Integrity Test? I had an Integrity Test performed 30 days after my first and second CI, but I'm wondering how that differs from the NRT.
 
As you know, I have 6 high frequency electrodes turned off on each CI. My audi does not plan to turn them back on at any point since I'm able to hear high frequencies quite well and my speech discrimination is better than it was when I had all of my electrodes activated. As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." :)
 
I agree with you HA. Pleased to hear that you are very happy with yours. May it contiune for you..
 
Oh interesting that you and hear again have ace 900 mine is ace 2000 I didn't like slower speed it sound so deep and darth vader-like but faster speed sound like piano, music tone-like sound instead of evironment/speech sound so I got 2000
I wonder why it sound different to everyone and what sound "normal" to them I wonder what's pre-lingually deaf's average and post-lingually deaf's average?
Oh btw I had my electrode number 8 turned off I can't STAND way it sound when doing mapping for red part (loud but comfortable) its always tiny space from green one (softest) :lol:
 
SkullChick said:
Oh interesting that you and hear again have ace 900 mine is ace 2000 I didn't like slower speed it sound so deep and darth vader-like but faster speed sound like piano, music tone-like sound instead of evironment/speech sound so I got 2000
I wonder why it sound different to everyone and what sound "normal" to them I wonder what's pre-lingually deaf's average and post-lingually deaf's average?
Oh btw I had my electrode number 8 turned off I can't STAND way it sound when doing mapping for red part (loud but comfortable) its always tiny space from green one (softest) :lol:
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SkullChick,

Would you mind explaining what ACE 2000 is? I've never heard of that before.

To answer your question, each of us is different in terms of what we prefer in regards to speed. Most CI users hear best with 900 Hz, but some do better on slower or faster speeds. It really depends on the person and what's right for them.
 
Hear Again said:
SkullChick,

Would you mind explaining what ACE 2000 is? I've never heard of that before.

To answer your question, each of us is different in terms of what we prefer in regards to speed. Most CI users hear best with 900 Hz, but some do better on slower or faster speeds. It really depends on the person and what's right for them.
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I believe she meant that she has the ACE Strategy at 2000hz speed. I believe I have the same, or 2200. I'm not sure. I have to go for new map soon, so I'll find out. The lows are sounding too soft.

As for integrity test - I'm not sure if that's the same one as NRT though.

From what I know - when you first start your map, the Audiologist turns your CI processor on through the computer. The computer goes through the electrodes. It's like electrode is turned on one after another, FAST. Kind of like belllllop...just fast. the CI user do NOT hear anything at this point.

Some audiologist do the softness test to determine your comfort levels. That sounds like Beep, Beep, Beep, and it gets softer. You raise your hand every time. When it sounds like there's nothing, that's where they can start to do the map.

NRT is when the beeping sound - sounds like, "eeeeep", "eeeeep", then it just gets louder and louder. I believe it goes 5 times until it hits the loudest, then it goes to the next electrode. The computer somehow (this is amazing to me!), knows when the nerve that the electrode is placed on is being over stimulated or overly sensitive. Each electrode test sounds similar.

When the computer kicks back as "Out of Compliance", it means the nerve that's right on that electrode is very sensitive, and should be turned off. When the test hit number 12, it was immediately really loud and a little noise painful the first beep compared to the others. I had to really clench my teeth, and just bear through it. It felt like a looong time!

The whole NRT takes about 15 to 20 minutes. I just read a magazine to get my mind off of it.


Hope that kind of clarifies the different tests. Your audiologist SHOULD be able to tell you whether you had the full NRT done or not. Maybe she does call it the integrity test.
 
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LadySekhmet said:
I believe she meant that she has the ACE Strategy at 2000hz speed. I believe I have the same, or 2200. I'm not sure. I have to go for new map soon, so I'll find out. The lows are sounding too soft.

As for integrity test - I'm not sure if that's the same one as NRT though.

me neither, there is another test called impedence or something. Not sure what this is

From what I know - when you first start your map, the Audiologist turns your CI processor on through the computer. The computer goes through the electrodes. It's like electrode is turned on one after another, FAST. Kind of like belllllop...just fast. the CI user do NOT hear anything at this point.

On the computer does it look like part of curled array and the electrodes flashes green while it's testing then solid green when finished??

Some audiologist do the softness test to determine your comfort levels. That sounds like Beep, Beep, Beep, and it gets softer. You raise your hand every time. When it sounds like there's nothing, that's where they can start to do the map.

Ditto

NRT is when the beeping sound - sounds like, "eeeeep", "eeeeep", then it just gets louder and louder. I believe it goes 5 times until it hits the loudest, then it goes to the next electrode. The computer somehow (this is amazing to me!), knows when the nerve that the electrode is placed on is being over stimulated or overly sensitive. Each electrode test sounds similar.

Ditto

When the computer kicks back as "Out of Compliance", it means the nerve that's right on that electrode is very sensitive, and should be turned off. When the test hit number 12, it was immediately really loud and a little noise painful the first beep compared to the others. I had to really clench my teeth, and just bear through it. It felt like a looong time!

I know excatly how you feel!! Horrible part, sends chills down my spine when i think about it :eek3: it's not that bad to be honest as i don't wanna scare anyone.

The whole NRT takes about 15 to 20 minutes. I just read a magazine to get my mind off of it.

I talk to my Audi about skiing, travelling etc we have similar interests so it was great to have her as my Audi :D She also signs (SSE) so I don't have problem understanding her without my "ear"


Hope that kind of clarifies the different tests. Your audiologist SHOULD be able to tell you whether you had the full NRT done or not. Maybe she does call it the integrity test.
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:ty: for the explanation Lady.

I really don't know how my audi went about creating my current maps, but they sound WONDERFUL.

When I asked her how she did it, she explained that all of the electrodes responsible for causing my dizziness and nausea were turned off (6 on each CI).

She then re-allocated those electrodes to other low and mid frequency electrodes. I'm still able to hear high frequencies; I just don't hear them at 20-30 dB like most CI users do.

Instead, my thresholds are between 40-70 dB with NR at 8K with my left CI.
 
deafdude1 said:
Thanks for the screenshot! I rarely see a CI programming in action! The LF might mean that's the corresponding frequency of each electrode. How are you hearing at 27Hz if the lowest is 188Hz? What tests were used for below 250Hz? I see you have a dynamic range of as much as 49db! I see you also have better threshold in the highs than the mids and lows!

To move you up to 20db, they set the T's down from 130 to 120 and this improves you from 30db down to 20db and also increases the dynamic range by 10db as well. Could you ask your audie what factors determine why some people can't get better than 50db threshold while others get to 25db or better? Is it true that the better/lower the threshold, the weaker the electrical pulse? If the T's are set too low, would the electrical pulses be too weak to be felt and therefore youd simply hear nothing?

I know that with HAs, the amount of residual hearing is the biggest indicator of how well a person would hear. It's straightforward with the amount of gain used to amplify a given loss. Say someone has 90db loss, give a gain of 70db and he hears at 20db. Sounds below 20db would not be loud enough to be heard and sounds above 20db will be heard louder.
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Here's some questions, overthepond that you didn't get a chance to answer.
 
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deafdude1 said:
Here's some questions you didn't get a chance to answer.
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deafdude,

I don't understand the mechanics of mappings, so I can't answer your questions. You would be best advised to e-mail someone at Cochlear, AB or Med-El.
 
Overthepond,

First off, the best person to ask if anyone has questions of their mapping session is their audiologist.

You have electrode 14 turned off. Do you have discomfort when setting the T or C level? If the T is OK but the C is where you are feeling it, they might be able to play with the pulse width on the #14 electode only. Making the pw longer, may allow you to hear the same amplitude of noise using less electrical current thus, you might not feel the stimulation as much. I was able to do this with two of my electrodes on my 900 and 1200 speeds. They were not able to do much with my 2400 or 3500 speeds since the pw is so short due to the speeds anyway.
 
Seeing that map was very cool. I have read about many of you talking about mapping, and while I had a pretty good idea what it was about, it was great to see an actual image. Thanks for sharing that with all of us who haven't seen this before! :)
 
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