My Dad's view on ASL, deafness and CI.

shel90

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Hello everyone...my dad flew out from AZ for a 4 day visit starting on January 1st. Right now, he is working on fixing my basement so I am taking the opportunity to create this thread.

In the past, I have always said my dad was another story when it came to meeting my deaf needs. I thought he was in denial and didnt want to face it. I was wrong...big time wrong. I hadnt seen him for 2 years and the last few times, I saw him was when I was visiting in AZ so we were always around people which didnt give us a chance to really sit down and catch up. Well, he came here alone so we caught up a lot!

Ok, on Tuesday night, my dad, my hubby and I were just relaxing at the dining room table chatting away. My husband loves to ask people about the past so of course, he brought up topics of how he met my mom and blah blah. Well, my hubby did ask him the question of how he felt when he found out I was diagnosed with a profound hearing loss. Here is what my dad said and what I had no idea about.

My dad said that when he and my mom first found out that I was deaf, immediately, he wanted to put me in a signing program cuz he always thought deaf people can only communicate through ASL. He said he didnt think badly of ASL and said was willing to learn for me (and later for my brother). However, he said once the doctors fed my mom all the bullshit about making my brother and I normal as possible things became ugly. They told her that we need to be put in an intensive oral-only program to develop speech skills and to forbid to teach us sign language. My dad said when my mom told him that, he was shocked and said that didnt make sense. I asked him why he thought that. He said "How the hell can you learn to speak and expect to understand others when you cant hear? It is like asking a blind person to read a book without brialle." He was against it. When he told me that, I was like :jaw: I said "WHAT??? Why didnt u put me in a signing program?" He said that my mom kept pushing him and kept telling him that the doctors and audis are the experts not him. They fought and fought a lot about that and he finally gave up cuz he wasnt confident with his opinions and figured that the "experts" knew best. I almost cried when he told me that. I was like "OMG" . I am about to get all teary-eye as I am typing this.

My dad said when my brother was born, immediately he had a hearing test done on him. Deaf ..my dad said he wasnt too upset. He told my hubby that he thought..."ok, we will adapt and do what we can. Not the end of the world" However, he said that my mom didnt help at all cuz she went into a deep depression and became obsessed that God was punishing her. My mom used to go to church and believe in God. After my brother's diagnosis, she stopped going and stopped believing in God. My dad told stories of my mom's personality changing and she went into rages of breaking things in the house and asking "WHY??" Also, she became obsessed that God had something against her cuz he made her suffer by having 2 deaf kids when her sisters had hearing and normal kids.That drove my dad to work longer hours and to stay out at bars with his buds cuz at home, it was too stressful.

My dad said he could never understand forcing deaf children to speak and not teach them sign language. He wanted to learn it but my mom refused to let him cuz she was afraid that it would make both of us abnormal. He said that when it was apparent that my brother was struggling to pick up on spoken language, my mom was constantly told by the experts to give it time and he will learn it. My dad said he did try to tell my mom that my brother was struggling but she wouldnt hear of it. He said that my mom used to obsess about my brother not being able to develop speech skills and used to blame it on herself for not trying hard enough. When it was finally apparent that my brother would be better off going to the Deaf school at the age of 5, my dad said he felt a sense of relief. He admitted that he was surprised by how well I did in an oral-only environment. He always asked my mom if I was ok and my mom would tell him to stop worrying about it and that I am fine. My dad admitted that he really didnt have a good feeling about putting me in an environment where I was forced to use my "broken" ears (his words, not mine...lol).

I told him the truth about how I felt and he was like "Goddammmit! I should have been more assertive but your mom's need for you and your brother was too overwhelming for me to handle and like a coward, I ran away instead of facing her." Wow! He has a lot of regrets but the good news is, he is trying to learn sign language.

My hubby told him that my brother expressed to him how he feels about being left out at our family gatherings. My dad said he tried to get my brother involved but he is not sure how to do it. I will have to talk to my brother. My dad had been aware of how left out my brother has been at family gatherings. That is good at least.

Then, my dad brought up cochlear implants and guess what? He and my hubby went on a tongue lashing about them. My dad is against them...he calls them "barbaric". He said children who are born deaf shouldnt be forced to be like their parents and just accept their deafness and learn sign language. Let the children decide for themselves if they want a CI later or not. My hubby said he agreeed....they both went on and on making mean CI jokes (not going to post here cuz some of them are offensive). I was shocked that my dad felt that way about CIs. I asked him if he lost his hearing completely, what would he do. He said, he will learn ASL and force his wife and hearing kids to learn ASL for him. LOL! THAT I didnt expect from my dad!!! I totally thought he was against ASL and in denial about our deafness. Wow!

Damn these fucking "experts"...damn them. Now, I hate oralists and AGBell even more. I almost was put in a signing program. Damn...

My mom already told me about 5 years ago that she regrets for listening to the doctors and wished she had learned ASL so that had been solved but I am glad to learn that my dad tried.

He did take 2 ASL classes with his 2nd wife when I was a teenager. I didnt know that!!! Damn...

So many lost opportunities so I hope parents of young deaf children dont do the same.
 
glad you had that talk with your dad. At least you know the truth. I bet you look at your dad differently now. Hope you enjoyed the visit.
 
Shel90 - That conversation must have been happy and heartbreaking all at the same time.

Just out of curiosity, do you use ASL now? Is that your primary language? And if you do use mostly ASL is your dad going to go back and take more classes? It sounds like he's still very interested and very pro-you.
 
Shel90 - That conversation must have been happy and heartbreaking all at the same time.

Just out of curiosity, do you use ASL now? Is that your primary language? And if you do use mostly ASL is your dad going to go back and take more classes? It sounds like he's still very interested and very pro-you.

I learned ASL when I was 25 years old and became fluent in it around 28 years old. I use it about 90% of the time and all of my friends are signers. The only time I use spoken language is when I visit my inlaws, my family in AZ or with my hubby's hearing friends.

Yea, my dad has always wanted to learn ASL and he also stated that when my deafness was first diagnosed, he felt it was his and my mom's responsibility to learn ASL for us but the doctors and audis got to my mom first, unfortunately.

I dont know if my dad will learn now cuz he wont have much opportunities to use ASL much and it is hard to remember the signs if u dont use the language much. I live 3,000 miles away and my brother doesnt visit him much. I will have to talk with my brother cuz my dad admitted that he wants my brother to come over more often. I still havent told my brother what I recently found out...I will so hopefully, that will change his views of our dad.

Thanks!
 
glad you had that talk with your dad. At least you know the truth. I bet you look at your dad differently now. Hope you enjoyed the visit.

Thanks and yes, I do look at him differently now. A lot more respect for him. Geez...I wish I had known all this a long time ago. Oh well..
 
I am just one big bundle of emotion after reading your post, shel! I've got teary eyes and a lump in my throat....both from happiness and sadness at the same time.

It is wonderful that you have finally had the opportunity to talk with your dad about this. I'm so happy for both of you that you have cleared the air. I'm sad that both of you lost so many years of understanding and closeness due to professionals pushing him against his instincts. I understand his reluctance at the time to go against the so-called "professionals", but he can take comfort in knowing that he is not the only parent who has found themselves in this position. It really makes me angry that they have so much influence over parents...to the point that their advise can end up destroying what was a happy and loving family. The upside is, it's never too late. Now that things are out in the open, and you and your dad have both had the opportunity to express your feelings, you can both heal your own scars and concentrate on making your relationship better. I'm sorry that you have had to wait so many years for the opportunity, but I am very happy that you do have that opportunity now.

As parents, we all make mistakes. None of us are infallible. Your dad did what he felt was the only thing he could do under the circumstances. Tell him that, as a parent, I would tell him not to waste time on the regrets for the past, but to use his energy to take advantage of every opportunity to make things different now. Today is all that matters, now that you both have had the chance to honestly communicate about the past. Time to put the past to rest, and concentrate on the wonderful future you two can have together now. It sounds like this has opened up the chance for your dad and your brother to start repairing their relationship, too. And that is a great thing. What a wonderful start for the new year for all three of you. My heart just goes out to all of you.

Give your husband a big hug from me and tell him that I think he is an amazing man! He is the one that opened the door for all of this healing to start, and that takes a loving and giving person. You've got a jewel in that one, girl!

I just wish I could be there to give all of you a great big hug, but this will have to do for now......:grouphug:
 
Thank you so much for sharing such a personal story with us. It takes my breath away. :hug:
 
Shel, I read the whole story through my blurry eyes and I hope your story will reach out to many hearing parents on this board. I have a lot of respect for your father. and I'm glad you finally know the truth about your past :hug:
 
That's very emotional story. I couldn't stop my watery eyes.. It would be impressive for me to be able to talk about such tough subjects with my parents.. but no luck for me :( I am sorry to read that you had to learn the hard way :hug: .. at least, it's nice to learn the truth while he is with you.
 
Interesting....this is a true blessing. I can see that you instantly bonded with your father knowing that he believes that signs were for you from the begin.

It's good to ask questions where our parents stood because we often not sure where they stood--either in the hearing world or in the deaf world or in both worlds. It's even more frustrated to be in the parents shoes when they have a child that is different from themselves.
 
Thanks Jillo, Reba, Cheri, Angel and Highlands.

I forgot to mention...I did ask my dad how did he know that Deaf people use ASL to communicate cuz of his comments. I was wondering if u knew deaf people growing up. He said he didnt know of anyone who was deaf personally but he has heard about sign language. What cracked me up was his comment "Anyone with common sense should know that it is easier for Deaf people to communicate using sign language than spoken language. Anyone who doesnt think that is nuts!"

Everyone bust out laughing when he said that. That was a good one. :)
 
Thanks Jillo, Reba, Cheri, Angel and Highlands.

I forgot to mention...I did ask my dad how did he know that Deaf people use ASL to communicate cuz of his comments. I was wondering if u knew deaf people growing up. He said he didnt know of anyone who was deaf personally but he has heard about sign language. What cracked me up was his comment "Anyone with common sense should know that it is easier for Deaf people to communicate using sign language than spoken language. Anyone who doesnt think that is nuts!")

:lol: It's true though, people should have common sense, if a person cannot hear, why would you force a person to speak when they can't hear themselves speak? That's why we need to educate them, That's the only way to change society's views.
 
I have a lot of mixed feelings after reading your posts.

When my parents found out I was born deaf, they were told by experts that sign was not good for me. They kept telling me that most people speak so I should learn to speak. I have no doubt that they would have implanted me as soon as possible. Thanks to my dad, one of my least favorite sentences is " Most people :blah: :blah: and I used to yell at him I'm NOT MOST PEOPLE.

The reason why I would want to have the child implanted is not because I want the child to be hearing but because I know all too well how inflexiable the hearing can be toward deaf, I'd want to make it easier to communicate with those who won't use sign or otherwise accomcate deaf needs. If I were pregant with a deaf child, I'd hope that she'd never need the surgery and that hearing aids will be enough to help her.

Even if the CI is a big success, there will be situations where she'd have trouble. I have no illusions about the CI making my child hearing. One of the first thing I'd do is enroll her in a Bi-Bi or if I can't find one, ASL only. I want her to be a native signer of ASL and I know I'm not the best model for that so I'd want to seek out deaf so she can learn how from them. I'm sure she'll notice the difference sooner or later.

I just hope that your dad will learn ASL and that the 3 of you can bond with each other using it. I must confess I don't feel comfortable signing with my parents even though they tried to learn signs and I was the last one in the family to learn it. It's like I'm doing something wrong. Don't ask me why. Let us know how things go with your dad and brother.
 
Thanks Jillo, Reba, Cheri, Angel and Highlands.

I forgot to mention...I did ask my dad how did he know that Deaf people use ASL to communicate cuz of his comments. I was wondering if u knew deaf people growing up. He said he didnt know of anyone who was deaf personally but he has heard about sign language. What cracked me up was his comment "Anyone with common sense should know that it is easier for Deaf people to communicate using sign language than spoken language. Anyone who doesnt think that is nuts!"

Everyone bust out laughing when he said that. That was a good one. :)

LOL! It really is a simple concept! Weird that so many people have such difficulty understanding it.
 
I have a lot of mixed feelings after reading your posts.

When my parents found out I was born deaf, they were told by experts that sign was not good for me. They kept telling me that most people speak so I should learn to speak. I have no doubt that they would have implanted me as soon as possible. Thanks to my dad, one of my least favorite sentences is " Most people :blah: :blah: and I used to yell at him I'm NOT MOST PEOPLE.

The reason why I would want to have the child implanted is not because I want the child to be hearing but because I know all too well how inflexiable the hearing can be toward deaf, I'd want to make it easier to communicate with those who won't use sign or otherwise accomcate deaf needs. If I were pregant with a deaf child, I'd hope that she'd never need the surgery and that hearing aids will be enough to help her.

Even if the CI is a big success, there will be situations where she'd have trouble. I have no illusions about the CI making my child hearing. One of the first thing I'd do is enroll her in a Bi-Bi or if I can't find one, ASL only. I want her to be a native signer of ASL and I know I'm not the best model for that so I'd want to seek out deaf so she can learn how from them. I'm sure she'll notice the difference sooner or later.

I just hope that your dad will learn ASL and that the 3 of you can bond with each other using it. I must confess I don't feel comfortable signing with my parents even though they tried to learn signs and I was the last one in the family to learn it. It's like I'm doing something wrong. Don't ask me why. Let us know how things go with your dad and brother.

I would venture a guess that the reason you feel you are doing something wrong is because that is the attitude that your parents conveyed to you in many, subtle ways. *sighs*

The oralists use your least favorite sentence all the time, but with a bit of a chnage in wording: "The majority of the population uses spoken language, therefore, the deaf must use spoken language." Different words, same meaning.

I have always been impressed with your realistic perspective on things, deafskeptic.
 
:lol: It's true though, people should have common sense, if a person cannot hear, why would you force a person to speak when they can't hear themselves speak? That's why we need to educate them, That's the only way to change society's views.

Common sense ain't as common as people think. :giggle:
 
I am just one big bundle of emotion after reading your post, shel! I've got teary eyes and a lump in my throat....both from happiness and sadness at the same time.

It is wonderful that you have finally had the opportunity to talk with your dad about this. I'm so happy for both of you that you have cleared the air. I'm sad that both of you lost so many years of understanding and closeness due to professionals pushing him against his instincts. I understand his reluctance at the time to go against the so-called "professionals", but he can take comfort in knowing that he is not the only parent who has found themselves in this position. It really makes me angry that they have so much influence over parents...to the point that their advise can end up destroying what was a happy and loving family. The upside is, it's never too late. Now that things are out in the open, and you and your dad have both had the opportunity to express your feelings, you can both heal your own scars and concentrate on making your relationship better. I'm sorry that you have had to wait so many years for the opportunity, but I am very happy that you do have that opportunity now.

As parents, we all make mistakes. None of us are infallible. Your dad did what he felt was the only thing he could do under the circumstances. Tell him that, as a parent, I would tell him not to waste time on the regrets for the past, but to use his energy to take advantage of every opportunity to make things different now. Today is all that matters, now that you both have had the chance to honestly communicate about the past. Time to put the past to rest, and concentrate on the wonderful future you two can have together now. It sounds like this has opened up the chance for your dad and your brother to start repairing their relationship, too. And that is a great thing. What a wonderful start for the new year for all three of you. My heart just goes out to all of you.

Give your husband a big hug from me and tell him that I think he is an amazing man! He is the one that opened the door for all of this healing to start, and that takes a loving and giving person. You've got a jewel in that one, girl!

I just wish I could be there to give all of you a great big hug, but this will have to do for now......:grouphug:

Yeah. I agree that your husband is amazing and I'm glad this happened, Shel.
 
Yeah. I agree that your husband is amazing and I'm glad this happened, Shel.

Yea, cuz I always told him that my dad was close-minded...ooops, I was wrong! I guess as he got to know my dad more, he realized that he was very open about a lot of things so he went ahead and asked him. They both hit it off big time. I guess I married my dad! LOL!
 
Reading your post I got happy kind of teary... Not like me....

Am very happy for you now you've gotten some closure.

Your dad's a unique man on these topics! Not many men would agree with your dad, I'm sure.

Mum's a bit alike in thoughts as your dad on these topics.

Gosh. I wish him, you and your brother all the best on this new start together.

:hug:
 
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