Mother of 7 y/o Deaf girl

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Teacherofthedeaf said:
What? You think that I should tell you my name and where I work? You really are crazy. I'm not contradicting myself at all. I have been very clear about my education and experience. You don't like it so you so you're trying to insult me and diminish my expertise. I'm not remotely perfect. There is no "vibe" about what I'm saying.
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No, of course not. But you DO strongly come across as EXTREMELY contraditory, and you don't even RECONIZE the vibe do you?!?!?!?!
 
zeefour said:
Thank you. I would just wish you would listen to my as well as others like @deafdyke and @peekaboo s stories of the bullying and exclusion we faced, how thousands and more hours were spent on made up systems and speech when native ASL exposure would have been more productive, how speech is still incredibly difficult for us, how having learned ASL and been with DHH peers would have given us community and self esteem, how we feel we have no identity or community. This is so common among mainstreamed DHH adults nationwide.

My high school and college accomplishments are behind me. Now I face the world not hearing and not Deaf. it is HARD
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I KNOW. Its so much more complex then just getting the child speech skilled and with HOH level functioning. Honestly I think students who are strongly academic, should be able to have a once a week TOD GROUP time where dhh kids from a particular area come together at a central location. I'm in TONS of dhh young adult groups. They ALL express frustration that ASL, deaf culture or even knowing other dhh kids wasn't automaticly GIVEN to them!
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
I know that the research shows that children with hearing loss are, on average, not reaching the same academic, educational, and literacy outcomes as the population that does not have hearing loss. That does not mean that ASL is inferior and that also does not make people with hearing loss inferior.
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That is b/c the MAJORITY of kids with hearing loss are oral and mainstreamed. There you have it again. You're implying that Sign INHIBITS progress towards those outcomes
 
zeefour said:
Thank you. I would just wish you would listen to my as well as others like @deafdyke and @peekaboo s stories of the bullying and exclusion we faced, how thousands and more hours were spent on made up systems and speech when native ASL exposure would have been more productive, how speech is still incredibly difficult for us, how having learned ASL and been with DHH peers would have given us community and self esteem, how we feel we have no identity or community. This is so common among mainstreamed DHH adults nationwide.

My high school and college accomplishments are behind me. Now I face the world not hearing and not Deaf. it is HARD
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I do listen. I also listen to the three deaf adults I have worked with who chose to teach listening and spoken language to children. I listen to the hundreds of adults who grew up using spoken language and are happy. I listen to the four deaf audiologists I know, including the one teaching a 6-week seminary about working with children in the mainstream. Your experience is absolutely valid and important, and so is everyone else's.
 
deafdyke said:
Not now, no. You're in a different state now of course. This wasn't about your program that you TAUGHT in! . I'm not interested in confirming details about a program you worked in. However, you said that you had referred a girl to the state res school. You gave identifiying details as to the res school, which in turn revealed info about a state you had a work history in. You do however have a personal history here I will be blunt and tell you that many posters (including a deceased one) have their suspicions about you, and that was the trigger for the research. That's not creepy. It's simply confirming people's suspicions. If you had shown up and presented yourself as someone who was a TOD without coming across as seeming to STRONGLY resemble someone in this forum's history, nothing would have happened. I speak to lots of oral TODs on FB, and lots of people here without feeling the need to do further research
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I have no idea who you are talking about, and yes it is creepy that you think you need to research who I am. You have made insane claims about following me on Facebook and about posts I have made here and other places. You need to seek professional help. I have been nothing but upfront about who I am.
 
deafdyke said:
No, of course not. But you DO strongly come across as EXTREMELY contraditory, and you don't even RECONIZE the vibe do you?!?!?!?!
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There is nothing contradictory about anything I have said. Just because I currently work in a school that uses listening and spoken language does not mean that I don't understand that other placements are important for other students. I have been saying that exact thing from the beginning.
 
deafdyke said:
I KNOW. Its so much more complex then just getting the child speech skilled and with HOH level functioning. Honestly I think students who are strongly academic, should be able to have a once a week TOD GROUP time where dhh kids from a particular area come together at a central location. I'm in TONS of dhh young adult groups. They ALL express frustration that ASL, deaf culture or even knowing other dhh kids wasn't automaticly GIVEN to them!
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Yes, it is far more complex than teaching speech. That is why that isn't what we do. We teach receptive and expressive vocabulary, complex language, syntax, pragmatics, audition, speech, academics, social skills, and self-advocacy.
 
deafdyke said:
That is b/c the MAJORITY of kids with hearing loss are oral and mainstreamed. There you have it again. You're implying that Sign INHIBITS progress towards those outcomes
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I am not implying any such thing. You are projecting your insecurities onto my words.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
I am not implying any such thing. You are projecting your insecurities onto my words.
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I'm late deafened so did not suffer what many deaf kids suffered because hearies think they should only learn how to be like hearies. But I agree with DD and others that you come across as thinking sign language is inferior to speech and hearing. That kids who know sign language are inferior to kids who can speak and hear.
And I think it's rude that you're even here on AllDeaf with your attitude towards deaf who sign or wish they had been given access to sign language from the get go.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
I do listen. I also listen to the three deaf adults I have worked with who chose to teach listening and spoken language to children. I listen to the hundreds of adults who grew up using spoken language and are happy. I listen to the four deaf audiologists I know, including the one teaching a 6-week seminary about working with children in the mainstream. Your experience is absolutely valid and important, and so is everyone else's.
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I bet those DHH adults were raised by hearing parents who pushed them into spoken language with the exclusion of ASL, you can tell because you refer to them as deaf not Deaf. I doubt they ever have been exposed to the DHH community so that doesn't really make their choice a choice nor does it counter the vast majority of DHH parents with DHH children who choose ASL. I don't understand why you'd support a method that excludes sign usage. It is an antiquated and debunked idea that using sign inhibits spoken language, on the contrary it enhances it for those who choose to also use speech. I also don't understand how you can keep stressing teaching DHH "listening". Like DHH can do everything except for hear it's not something if we just try harder we'll get. And it's kind of insulting that you've co-opted listening to mean what your oralist program teaches. We listen visually by being more aware of our environments than hearing people, by picking up on body language and facial expressions, by understanding people signing. Yes I have HAs but I know how to listen without sound and can't be taught to hear any better or more clearly than my amplification provides.

It reminds me of when I've had to use a wheelchair because of a spinal cord injury I sustained from the same autoimmune disorder that caused my hearing loss. There's a lot of value placed on walking again for people with SCIs, to the point where some people's lives revolve around being able to walk, which the vast majority will never do. Their entire self esteem is placed on something their bodies don't do. When I started living my life to the best of my ability just in ways that accommodated my wheelchair I was happier and more successful than those who believed they only had worth if they could walk again. This isn't much different than the idea that DHH need to be taught to hear and listen to be successful and valuable. There's so many ways for DHH to do this without fighting against the one thing our bodies don't do.

Even with amplification and CIs we don't and never hear like hearing people like yourself. Do you really think you're teaching DHH kids to hear the same way you do? Like I said in another post, when I get home from work my ears hurt from my HAs, I have a headache from the effort it takes to understand verbal language around me, which even then I never will be close to understanding the majority of it, I have to rely on other cues to contextualize what I can make out. Then responding with speech of my own takes just as much effort and thought. I'm almost 30 years old I've been doing this for decades and it sucks. I want to be able to use sign language instead but I was exposed to SE, SEE 1 and 2 made up systems that I can't get an interpreter for. I cannot wait until I feel my ASL is at a completely fluent level (which a part of me is worried might not happen unless I get accepted into Gallaudet's masters program and I can be completely immersed there on campus). Out in public at the end of the day I sometimes don't even bother to try to use verbal language. It's not something I learned to do when I was 6 and now is a natural skill for me as a grown woman. Every single day of my life since I was 5 years old is has been a huge burden and a huge effort only to feel like an outsider from both the hearing and Deaf communities.

Why do you insist on pushing this burden and difficulty onto DHH students? If you're convinced some DHH want to hear and talk like you, you should at least support teaching all kids bilingually, with ASL and English. If speech is better than ASL most of your students will choose verbal English then right? But at least you gave them all the tools possible.
 
LoveBlue said:
I'm late deafened so did not suffer what many deaf kids suffered because hearies think they should only learn how to be like hearies. But I agree with DD and others that you come across as thinking sign language is inferior to speech and hearing. That kids who know sign language are inferior to kids who can speak and hear.
And I think it's rude that you're even here on AllDeaf with your attitude towards deaf who sign or wish they had been given access to sign language from the get go.
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Her username shows her true feelings. Teacher is capitalized because she thinks that she is superior to her students, that she is gracing them with her hearing presence and teaching them to be like hearing people like herself. deaf is not capitalized because she thinks deaf students should become hearing. You would think coming to a Deaf website she would at least respect us enough to be TeacheroftheDeaf. :shrugs:
 
LoveBlue said:
I'm late deafened so did not suffer what many deaf kids suffered because hearies think they should only learn how to be like hearies. But I agree with DD and others that you come across as thinking sign language is inferior to speech and hearing. That kids who know sign language are inferior to kids who can speak and hear.
And I think it's rude that you're even here on AllDeaf with your attitude towards deaf who sign or wish they had been given access to sign language from the get go.
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I believe in what works best for each person. I will fight just as hard for a family to have their child placed at a Deaf school as I would to have them placed in the mainstream. I don't choose a family's language or modality, that is not my decision. I am just here to provide excellent services after they do.
 
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zeefour said:
I bet those DHH adults were raised by hearing parents who pushed them into spoken language with the exclusion of ASL, you can tell because you refer to them as deaf not Deaf. I doubt they ever have been exposed to the DHH community so that doesn't really make their choice a choice nor does it counter the vast majority of DHH parents with DHH children who choose ASL. I don't understand why you'd support a method that excludes sign usage. It is an antiquated and debunked idea that using sign inhibits spoken language, on the contrary it enhances it for those who choose to also use speech. I also don't understand how you can keep stressing teaching DHH "listening". Like DHH can do everything except for hear it's not something if we just try harder we'll get. And it's kind of insulting that you've co-opted listening to mean what your oralist program teaches. We listen visually by being more aware of our environments than hearing people, by picking up on body language and facial expressions, by understanding people signing. Yes I have HAs but I know how to listen without sound and can't be taught to hear any better or more clearly than my amplification provides.

It reminds me of when I've had to use a wheelchair because of a spinal cord injury I sustained from the same autoimmune disorder that caused my hearing loss. There's a lot of value placed on walking again for people with SCIs, to the point where some people's lives revolve around being able to walk, which the vast majority will never do. Their entire self esteem is placed on something their bodies don't do. When I started living my life to the best of my ability just in ways that accommodated my wheelchair I was happier and more successful than those who believed they only had worth if they could walk again. This isn't much different than the idea that DHH need to be taught to hear and listen to be successful and valuable. There's so many ways for DHH to do this without fighting against the one thing our bodies don't do.

Even with amplification and CIs we don't and never hear like hearing people like yourself. Do you really think you're teaching DHH kids to hear the same way you do? Like I said in another post, when I get home from work my ears hurt from my HAs, I have a headache from the effort it takes to understand verbal language around me, which even then I never will be close to understanding the majority of it, I have to rely on other cues to contextualize what I can make out. Then responding with speech of my own takes just as much effort and thought. I'm almost 30 years old I've been doing this for decades and it sucks. I want to be able to use sign language instead but I was exposed to SE, SEE 1 and 2 made up systems that I can't get an interpreter for. I cannot wait until I feel my ASL is at a completely fluent level (which a part of me is worried might not happen unless I get accepted into Gallaudet's masters program and I can be completely immersed there on campus). Out in public at the end of the day I sometimes don't even bother to try to use verbal language. It's not something I learned to do when I was 6 and now is a natural skill for me as a grown woman. Every single day of my life since I was 5 years old is has been a huge burden and a huge effort only to feel like an outsider from both the hearing and Deaf communities.

Why do you insist on pushing this burden and difficulty onto DHH students? If you're convinced some DHH want to hear and talk like you, you should at least support teaching all kids bilingually, with ASL and English. If speech is better than ASL most of your students will choose verbal English then right? But at least you gave them all the tools possible.
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Actually, several of them have learned ASL as adults. Some to communicate with Deaf friends, one to access language in large group settings. They all still choose to advocate for listening and spoken language for deaf children.
I use the word listening because it is accurate. The students I teach and those I am referring to learn through listening. They use technology to be able to understand spoken language through listening alone. They don't hear the way I do, but they hear well and are able to learn that way.
 
zeefour said:
Her username shows her true feelings. Teacher is capitalized because she thinks that she is superior to her students, that she is gracing them with her hearing presence and teaching them to be like hearing people like herself. deaf is not capitalized because she thinks deaf students should become hearing. You would think coming to a Deaf website she would at least respect us enough to be TeacheroftheDeaf. :shrugs:
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The T is capitalized because that is the first letter of my username and the D is not because I teach students who are not culturally Deaf.
 
zeefour said:
Her username shows her true feelings. Teacher is capitalized because she thinks that she is superior to her students, that she is gracing them with her hearing presence and teaching them to be like hearing people like herself. deaf is not capitalized because she thinks deaf students should become hearing. You would think coming to a Deaf website she would at least respect us enough to be TeacheroftheDeaf. :shrugs:
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The use of the capital letter for the title or first word of a sentence seems natural to me. I think you are reading something into it that is not truly there. Your use of zeefour rather than Zeefour does not seem natural to me.
 
Jane B. said:
The use of the capital letter for the title or first word of a sentence seems natural to me. I think you are reading something into it that is not truly there. Your use of zeefour rather than Zeefour does not seem natural to me.
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I almost don't want to respond to this it's so asinine. But I can't fault you, you really have no clue how little you understand about the Deaf community and Deaf culture.
 
zeefour said:
I almost don't want to respond to this it's so asinine. But I can't fault you, you really have no clue how little you understand about the Deaf community and Deaf culture.
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I have never pretended to understand the Deaf Community and Deaf Culture.!

My post that you just objected to just accounts for where I thought, from the first time I saw her post, that her use of a capital to start her user name comes from.
 
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Jane B. said:
I have never pretended to understand the Deaf Community and Deaf Culture.!

My post that you just objected to just accounts for where I thought, from the first time I saw her post, that her use of a capital to start her user name comes from.
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That's really not the issue. The issue is she clearly thought to use a capital letter for Teacher bur NOT deaf. Not capitalising Deaf in the DHH world is huge. THAT is the point.

I'd rather continue the discussion from my last substantive post though...
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
I have no idea who you are talking about, and yes it is creepy that you think you need to research who I am. You have made insane claims about following me on Facebook and about posts I have made here and other places. You need to seek professional help. I have been nothing but upfront about who I am.
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Then why do you sound exactly like a previous poster? Why don't you at least give some details about who you are?
 
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