more interpreter issues...UGH!

[posts from hell]

That's an interesting point. Are you suggesting that deaf children don't deserve qualified interpreters if their parents can't really tell the difference between qualified and unqualified levels of ASL? Maybe kids also don't deserve to visit medical doctors with actual degrees if their parents don't have enough medical knowledge to determine whether or not the doctor is really qualified and have to rely on whether or not they hold a license to know if this guy happens to be a real doctor and have a certain specialt. Teachers, too: why do we insist on qualified teachers of the deaf if we really don't have the same level of expertise as those teachers and can't determine whether they truly are qualified without checking up on those degrees.

Post reported.

 

[CSign]

It was called a JOB. I was nice enough to quote things so you can have the ease of viewing.





Next time, read and remember what I have to say.

Now, I am going to ask you this question: Since you, like majority of parents with a deaf child, do not know ASL well enough to judge qualifications - what position do you hold to determine facts compared to these who grew up in the system or worked in it?

To answer your question: I am fluent in SEE and well versed when it cones to ASL. I also have open lines of communication with my son. The factors listed above enable me to help make that determination.

If I didn't know sign, but I wanted my child to have a terp (I don't think thus is often the case, but I'll respond) I would ask to see their certifications and also have a dialogue with my child about how things are going.

In terms of that being your job, ok. I would leave the second I noticed things were haywire if I wasn't able to make a change, but that's just me.

 

[CSign]

Post reported.

Out of curiosity, what in that post warranted reporting it? Grendel addressed points that are valid to the discussion at hand. Sure, we can report whatever we feel like- but that just seemed a bit silly.

 

[posts from hell]

To answer your question: I am fluent in SEE and well versed when it cones to ASL. I also have open lines of communication with my son. The factors listed above enable me to help make that determination.

If I didn't know sign, but I wanted my child to have a terp (I don't think thus is often the case, but I'll respond) I would ask to see their certifications and also have a dialogue with my child about how things are going.

In terms of that being your job, ok. I would leave the second I noticed things were haywire if I wasn't able to make a change, but that's just me.

Do you even know how long I stayed? I was not there very long at all. I think it was my shortest job, ever.

And now, if you're well versed when it comes to ASL, why are you using SEE?

I am not trying to personally attack you. This is fact of life. Many people out there are like you, and how are they to judge? Are you going to ignore my experiences in the system and say "everything is peachy"? Because it is not.

 

[posts from hell]

Out of curiosity, what in that post warranted reporting it? Grendel addressed points that are valid to the discussion at hand. Sure, we can report whatever we feel like- but that just seemed a bit silly.

That shouldnt concern you. Grendel knew exactly what she did.

 

[CSign]

That shouldnt concern you. Grendel knew exactly what she did.

I guess I don't understand why you would post, "Post reported" if you didn't want others to see it. You certainly could have sent her a PM to let her know instead of posting it for everyone to see.

 

[posts from hell]

I guess I don't understand why you would post, "Post reported" if you didn't want others to see it. You certainly could have sent her a PM to let her know instead of posting it for everyone to see.

Oh ok, input received.

 

[Jiro]

That's an interesting point. Are you suggesting that deaf children don't deserve qualified interpreters if their parents can't really tell the difference between qualified and unqualified levels of ASL? Maybe kids also don't deserve to visit medical doctors with actual degrees if their parents don't have enough medical knowledge to determine whether or not the doctor is really qualified and have to rely on whether or not they hold a license to know if this guy happens to be a real doctor and have a certain specialt.

that's why most parents rely on word of mouth.

Teachers, too: why do we insist on qualified teachers of the deaf if we really don't have the same level of expertise as those teachers and can't determine whether they truly are qualified without checking up on those degrees.

All for more reason why parents should be proactive and listen to their children's feedback. You can always get a trusted person to judge terp's skill.

For hearing parents with hearing kids.... they can sit in their class and observe to see if teacher is really qualified or not.

 

[CSign]

Do you even know how long I stayed? I was not there very long at all. I think it was my shortest job, ever.

And now, if you're well versed when it comes to ASL, why are you using SEE?

I am not trying to personally attack you. This is fact of life. Many people out there are like you, and how are they to judge? Are you going to ignore my experiences in the system and say "everything is peachy"? Because it is not.

I've never said "everything is peachy" as I know from first hand experience the challenges of dealing with the public school system. I've had to fight for my son for the last 5 years over a variety of things to get him the services and support he needs.

So I know it sucks- I deal with it on a regular basis. My point is the students have rights and the parents have rights. They just have to assert them.

 

[Jiro]

Out of curiosity, what in that post warranted reporting it? Grendel addressed points that are valid to the discussion at hand. Sure, we can report whatever we feel like- but that just seemed a bit silly.

really? there were points in her post? I didn't see any

 

[posts from hell]

I've never said "everything is peachy" as I know from first hand experience the challenges of dealing with the public school system. I've had to fight for my son for the last 5 years over a variety of things to get him the services and support he needs.

So I know it sucks- I deal with it on a regular basis. My point is the students have rights and the parents have rights. They just have to assert them.

Then why imply that most of the states follow compliance? That is the kind of statement that also implies things are peachy. You see what you did there?

 

[DeafCaroline]

That shouldnt concern you. Grendel knew exactly what she did.

Yeah. I got PFH's post perfectly. I got what he meant which was what the law says and what really happens in the system can be two very different things and for a hearing parent to say "nuh uh you're wrong, these are the real facts" despite that the deaf person is speaking from experience both as a deaf person and as one who worked within the school system is just plain obnoxious and disrespectful. I'm seeing it happen all the time here on AD...hearing parents pooh-poohing what deaf people are saying or having a condescending tone of "I know better than you, you're just plain wrong."

The fact of the matter is ...and I say this is to all hearing parents: No, you don't. Until you've actually lived our lives and had the same experiences as we did, you ain't got a freaking clue and it would be nice if instead of correcting us, doubting the truth of what we say or telling us we're wrong, you might occasionally say "huh, I didn't know that, thank you for telling me. I appreciate it."

 

[posts from hell]

Simple acknowledgement goes a very long way. Its amazing.

 

[GrendelQ]

really? there were points in her post? I didn't see any

It was this: parents have the right to insist on qualified terps -- even if they themselves are not native users of ASL. Just as I may not know how to remove a tooth, myself, and can't eyeball a dentist's skill, I have the right to insist that my daughter's dentist is credentialed.

 

[Jiro]

It was this: parents have the right to insist on qualified terps -- even if they themselves are not native users of ASL. Just as I may not know how to remove a tooth, myself, and can't eyeball a dentist's skill, I have the right to insist that my daughter's dentist is credentialed.

um.... why would you need to question if the dentist is credentialed or not? it's.... er.... the law. This is not Africa, ya know....

It's not about credential. Anybody can get certified. It's about quality of service. If your daughter is screaming in pain during tooth extraction.... then your dentist is doing a bad job because it shouldn't be that painful. But many parents ignore their children's scream and they held them down.

You see where I'm getting at?

 

[jillio]

Let me reiterate: it is not a matter of what deaf children are entitled to, or what they deserve...it is a matter of what happens in actual practice. And in actual practice, children are consistently being underserved because the school system will get by with providing accommodation as cheaply as possible. Parents accept what the school system provides. They do not even realize their child is in the hands of an unqualified terp because they have no idea how to determine if the terp is qualified or not. They are relying on a false sense of security in believing that the school system is providing certified terps because it says they will on paper. Lets get real. Just because it is written on a piece of paper does not mean that it is put into practice. The only time the school will be challanged is when a parent files an official complaint. This is a rare occurrance. This OP in this thread is a perfect example of that.

College students coming from the mainstream are not properly transitioned. Most don't even realize that they have to request specific services from the disability services office. They think that the accommodations they had in high school will aiutomatically transfer to their college setting just because they have submitted a copy of their IEP from high school. They are not receiving transitional services in the mainstream that instills the skills they need to advocate for themselves in a college environment or a work environment. This is the reality of the situation, no matter what it says on paper.

Being fluent in SEE means being fluent in English. That does not qualify anyone to determine the ability of an interpreter to do educational interpreting, especially at the more advanced levels. ASL interpreters are interpreting from one language to another conceptually. SEE transliterators are simply switching from a spoken mode of English to a manual mode of English. It is not even interpreting. It is transliterating. The same with CS transliterators. The vast majority of professionals and parents involved in IEPs in the mainstream do not understand the fundamental difference, and the negative effects on a child's cognition when proper interpreting is not in place. I am certain that Reba, who does specialize in educational interpreting, will agree with all that is being said here. She is in the field on a daily basis, and I know for a fact that she has seen the problems first hand.

Additionally, if a child enters the school system without having a strong foundation in ASL as their communication mode in the home, an ASL terp is all but useless, as is a terp that uses PSE. Without proper exposure prior to school, the child will contstantly be having to re-interpret everything that is interpreted in his head. This is where things get so confusing linguisitically and conceptually for most deaf students in the mainstream. Additionally, especially in the younger years, having to communicate through a 3rd party is extremely ineffectual both for the learning process and the socialization process. This negative effect is particularly important in the younger grades. This negative impact is why so many kids leave the mainstream with social skills far behind those of their hearing peers. A young deaf student does not need an interpreter in the mainstream. They need a TOD that communicates in fluent ASL and a classroom full of their peers...other deaf children who share their communication mode. Anything less is to limit the child and their ability to derive the necessary information from their learning environment. Children in the mainstream are being limited both academically and socially, even when a terp is provided. This is the reality of the situation.

We can post links showing what the school is supposed to do all day long. The fact of the matter is that the only thing that matters is not what is on paper, but what is occurring in the deaf child's environment. And what occurs in the deaf child's environment is far less that what the vast majority of people believe is occuring. This is the reality of the situation.

 

[GrendelQ]

um.... why would you need to question if the dentist is credentialed or not? it's.... er.... the law. This is not Africa, ya know....

It's not about credential. Anybody can get certified. It's about quality. If your daughter is screaming in pain during tooth extraction.... then your dentist is a bad one because it shouldn't be that painful. But many parents ignore their children's scream and they held them down.

You get where I'm getting at?

Right, that's the issue. It's also the law that kids have qualified terps, but as Jillio and PFH pointed out, that's not how it really works in real life. There are a lot of substandard terps in public ed. It's actually one of the factors that led me towards the approach we are taking. But, as Csign pointed out, parents need to stand up and make certain that law is being enforced.

 

[Jiro]

To answer your question: I am fluent in SEE and well versed when it cones to ASL. I also have open lines of communication with my son. The factors listed above enable me to help make that determination.

If I didn't know sign, but I wanted my child to have a terp (I don't think thus is often the case, but I'll respond) I would ask to see their certifications and also have a dialogue with my child about how things are going.

In terms of that being your job, ok. I would leave the second I noticed things were haywire if I wasn't able to make a change, but that's just me.

would you be able to interpret for your son in classes?

 

[DeafCaroline]

Let me reiterate: it is not a matter of what deaf children are entitled to, or what they deserve...it is a matter of what happens in actual practice. ...

....We can post links showing what the school is supposed to do all day long. The fact of the matter is that the only thing that matters is not what is on paper, but what is occurring in the deaf child's environment. And what occurs in the deaf child's environment is far less that what the vast majority of people believe is occuring. This is the reality of the situation.

thank you! that's why it's infuriating when us deaf people speak from experience saying 'well, the truth is..." and we get told we're wrong or we get corrected or our posts get deliberately misunderstood or overlooked. I would really appreciate it if some hearing parents just drop their hypersensitive and hyper-self-defensive egos and stop doing that.

 

[jillio]

um.... why would you need to question if the dentist is credentialed or not? it's.... er.... the law. This is not Africa, ya know....

It's not about credential. Anybody can get certified. It's about quality of service. If your daughter is screaming in pain during tooth extraction.... then your dentist is doing a bad job because it shouldn't be that painful. But many parents ignore their children's scream and they held them down.

You see where I'm getting at?

Excellent methaphor.