Mitt Romney said He is Not Concerned about the Poors!

saywhatkid said:
Glad you do. Me, not so much. I avoid fast foods and environmentally ignorant packaging; think Lunchables and the like. However, one can spin animal rights any way their conscience allows. Third degree burns? Do we take a torch to a pig to test the medications, or do we wait for a victim to offer his/her chances for survival as a test subject?
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Well, let's put it this way, how would you feel about putting a torch to your own dog to test the medication?
 
DeafCaroline said:
Well, let's put it this way, how would you feel about putting a torch to your own dog to test the medication?
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Not going there with you. I do not have a love bond with animals when it comes to survival of loved ones.
 
We have quite a few DQ locations here in Niagara. I don't go there much though, I prefer homemade ice cream.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Then don't open the door.
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Well, since you actually created the opening with your anti-DQ diatribe, I will make one post and leave it alone. There was an animal rights group (ALF) that vandalized the University of Minnesota's Alzheimer's research study, releasing test animals, stealing papers, and destroying years of research. The released "torture victims" scurried around a suburban field, where most of them were found dead a short time later. The group considered this a victory for their "friends" even though they did not survive long. I remember this when I lived out there, and at the time, found it a bit sad. When Alzheimer's became part of my family, it angered me that these "liberators" had perhaps stolen some precious time with my mother, along with countless other families. If I could torch hundreds of mice to gain a year of dementia freedom for a family, I would do it in a heart beat.

Animal Liberation League | AnimalRights.Net

Resource Clearinghouse: Animal Rights - Are They Treading on Yours?
 
saywhatkid said:
Well, since you actually created the opening with your anti-DQ diatribe, I will make one post and leave it alone. There was an animal rights group (ALF) that vandalized the University of Minnesota's Alzheimer's research study, releasing test animals, stealing papers, and destroying years of research. The released "torture victims" scurried around a suburban field, where most of them were found dead a short time later. The group considered this a victory for their "friends" even though they did not survive long. I remember this when I lived out there, and at the time, found it a bit sad. When Alzheimer's became part of my family, it angered me that these "liberators" had perhaps stolen some precious time with my mother, along with countless other families. If I could torch hundreds of mice to gain a year of dementia freedom for a family, I would do it in a heart beat.

Animal Liberation League | AnimalRights.Net

Resource Clearinghouse: Animal Rights - Are They Treading on Yours?
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One group of radicals does not represent the entire realm of those who advocate for animal rights. In fact, the majority of those who do advocate for animal rights are normal every day people like you and me.

It's like saying all Americans are polygamous because of a mormon colony in Utah.

So, you value human life over that of an animal and are perfectly willing to condone and encourage cruelty towards animals for one loved member in your family. You have no problems torching hundreds of animals...yet you have a problem with a group breaking into a lab to free animals and think this makes you more righteous than them. I see.
 
DeafCaroline said:
So, you value human life over that of an animal and are perfectly willing to condone and encourage cruelty towards animals for one loved member in your family. You have no problems torching hundreds of animals...yet you have a problem with a group breaking into a lab to free animals and think this makes you more righteous than them. I see.
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It's amazing how cruel our species can be. Not to mention egregiously self-entitled too as well. Just look at how out of control the consumerism is, what we are willing to sacrifice and condone in order to get what we desire.
 
DeafCaroline said:
One group of radicals does not represent the entire realm of those who advocate for animal rights. In fact, the majority of those who do advocate for animal rights are normal every day people like you and me.

It's like saying all Americans are polygamous because of a mormon colony in Utah.

So, you value human life over that of an animal and are perfectly willing to condone and encourage cruelty towards animals for one loved member in your family. You have no problems torching hundreds of animals...yet you have a problem with a group breaking into a lab to free animals and think this makes you more righteous than them. I see.
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We disagree. This comment from your post is absolutely true, in my case: "you value human life over that of an animal" I was not speaking for my family either; I speak for any human family touched by a tragedy that could be avoided by using animal research. I am also an omnivore. Paint it any way you like.
 
saywhatkid said:
We disagree. This comment from your post is absolutely true, in my case: "you value human life over that of an animal" I was not speaking for my family either; I speak for any human family touched by a tragedy that could be avoided by using animal research. I am also an omnivore. Paint it any way you like.
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You have already done a good job painting a picture of yourself. Thanks though.
 
Banjo said:
It's amazing how cruel our species can be. Not to mention egregiously self-entitled too as well. Just look at how out of control the consumerism, what we are willing to sacrifice and condone in order to get what we desire.
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Exactly. We hold this belief that the human life is more valuable than the life of any other species yet we are the most destructive cruel species in existence.
 
DeafCaroline said:
That's what NGOs trying to save starving children in Africa say all the time to westerners who raise an eyebrow at the hungry kids being fed sugar or cheap hot dogs. Their bodies are so starved that they actually need that sugar (as well as salt) unlike others who need to cut down on sugar.

So, you're right. If one is dealing with severe starvation, they're happy to eat anything and in fact, they need to be able to eat anything. My father survived the Winter of Hunger in de Hague, Netherlands and nothing made him more upset than seeing food being thrown out. Even old stale bread or cheese that got left out and hardened or old mealy apples. All of that was precious to him even long after he grew up to be quite a financially comfortable person.
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Food waste is what I watched a few weeks ago on the Food Channel.

More than 30 million tons of food was dumped into landfills in 2009, making food the number one material found there, according to the EPA. That adds up to about 200 pounds a year for every person in the country. Only about 2 percent of food waste is composted today, while 62 percent of paper is recycled.

A USDA study conducted in 1997 concluded that about 10 million people a year could be fed through the recovery of just 20 percent of food that is wasted.

The Grocery Manufacturers Association and the Food Marketing Institute headed up a leadership conference this summer to tackle the issue. Among the attendees were leaders from General Mills, Publix supermarkets, Waste Management waste removal company, and Feeding America, the nonprofit network of U.S. food banks.

A committee was formed that will begin to conduct a comprehensive survey of the sources and causes of food waste. Next, the initiative will identify public policies that could divert food that would typically wind up in landfills to food banks instead. The committee will also seek to pinpoint new technologies and industry best practices that will support efforts to reduce food waste.
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TrendWire, September 2011 in Trends on The Food Channel®

So, I'd rather that we have plenty of food, any food, to go around than hardly at all. So, no complaints from me on that aspect.
 
People shouldn't be throwing food into the trash can. It should be going straight to the compostable bin or the organic bin.
 
DeafCaroline said:
The thing is, if corporations make it illegal to reveal the truth to consumers, that they do merit ill will.

fpr example, Monsanto has won the right not to put genetically modified label on their produce because "it might scare the customers away".

Farming industries have now made it illegal to expose their illegal treatment of animals on their farms because it might harm their profits.

Apple only put a watch on their labour practices in China after the media exposed the child labour scandal. If the media hadn't done that, this would have gone on without our knowing and we would happily buy iPhones not knowing it was assembled by a 10 year old who doesn't go to school and instead works 12-14 hours day for cents a day.

how many people do you know personally know all this already?

they don't. corporations pay a lot of money to make sure they don't.
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I just posted in another wet forum I used about workers at Apple are killing themselves because the work conditions in so horrible in China . Safety nets had to be put on the outside of the factory as people where jumping out the windows. 14 people had killed themselves at Apple factory in China!
 
saywhatkid said:
Thanks for the condescending tone. "Sorry ma, we gotta keep those mice alive. Go back to your fantasy world."
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Half of my family have been decimated by cancer, my father, his two sisters, his mother, my mother's mother. I witnessed my father lose his mind when the cancer metastasized to his brain. The last six weeks of his life, he had no idea who I was. He often thought I was his nurse. He literally wasted away to skin and bones in just 2.5 months.

So, do not think you are the only one who has suffered seeing a dear one deal with a terrible disease. I do understand the sentiment of wanting there to be a cure. I do understand that very much.

I still don't see this wish to find a cure justifying making animals, who live and breathe, and love their young ones, can feel anger, fear, happiness, contentment, loyalty, kindness and dedication, just like us, suffer torture for our own selfish benefit. Because that's exactly what it is.

You obviously feel otherwise. That's fine. I am sorry for what you're dealing with and I can empathize but don't try guilt tripping me about your mother. Not falling for that manipulative tactic.
 
saywhatkid said:
We disagree. This comment from your post is absolutely true, in my case: "you value human life over that of an animal" I was not speaking for my family either; I speak for any human family touched by a tragedy that could be avoided by using animal research. I am also an omnivore. Paint it any way you like.
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Amen, even the family member I removed from my Christmas card list comes before my dog.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Half of my family have been decimated by cancer, my father, his two sisters, his mother, my mother's mother. I witnessed my father lose his mind when the cancer metastasized to his brain. The last six weeks of his life, he had no idea who I was. He often thought I was his nurse. He literally wasted away to skin and bones in just 2.5 months.

So, do not think you are the only one who has suffered seeing a dear one deal with a terrible disease. I do understand the sentiment of wanting there to be a cure. I do understand that very much.

I still don't see this wish to find a cure justifying making animals, who live and breathe, and love their young ones, can feel anger, fear, happiness, contentment, loyalty, kindness and dedication, just like us, suffer torture for our own selfish benefit. Because that's exactly what it is.

You obviously feel otherwise. That's fine. I am sorry for what you're dealing with and I can empathize but don't try guilt tripping me about your mother. Not falling for that manipulative tactic.
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I am done dealing. Mom passed away about 2 years ago. My sentiments are for families that are going through it now, or in the future. I do not value an animal life as equal to a human one. I also am not allowing you to guilt trip me about those loving animals that have feelings and care about "their" families. I do regret some of the research practices used, but I would not turn back the clock on medical progress that has been made.

Guess we have hijacked this thread enough. Thanks for the comments. :wave:
 
DeafCaroline said:
I wouldn't take any of them knowing where the milk comes from and what it's made up of.
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I know a couple of people that are dairy farmers and they both said they never drink Hood's milk or eat Perdue chicken. They said Hood cows are loaded with hormone and Perdue chicken have a lot of hormone. I bet a lot of people do not know what is done to babies calf to get veal.

Iams dog food grinds up live baby chicken to made their dog food.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
I know a couple of people that are dairy farmers and they both said they never drink Hood's milk or eat Perdue chicken. They said Hood cows are loaded with hormone and Perdue chicken have a lot of hormone. I bet a lot of people do not know what is done to babies calf to get veal.

Iams dog food grinds up live baby chicken to made their dog food.
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Maybe they are trying to remove a curse at the same time. :dunno:
 
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