Minn. Judge Rules Teen Must See Cancer Doctor

[jillio]

death or not - the end result is not an issue. it's the legal process that's an issue in here.

What would happen if he died from chemotherapy as ordered by court?

And that is where you are wrong. The end result is the issue, and that is exactly what the courts have looked at in this case.

It has already been determined that with chemotherapy, he as a 90% chance of being cured.

 

[Jiro]

Well, I suppose you can come to that conclusion using the logic that you are employing here, but in order for it to stand up, you will have to substantiate the fact that there are thousands of children whose lives are in danger from medical neglect.

This is not a case of child endangerment. It is a case of medical neglect. Two different charges, two different sets of criteria.

and that's what i'm talking about. Obesity is a medical neglect by your logic because thousands of parents are ill-informed about proper diet and/or are not very active participants in healthy program as recommended by government and health professionals. Obesity leads to death.

 

[Jiro]

And that is where you are wrong. The end result is the issue, and that is exactly what the courts have looked at in this case.

It has already been determined that with chemotherapy, he as a 90% chance of being cured.

so what happens if Daniel Hauser is in 10%?

 

[Foxrac]

And that is where you are wrong. The end result is the issue, and that is exactly what the courts have looked at in this case.

It has already been determined that with chemotherapy, he as a 90% chance of being cured.

You still don't answer Jiro's answer.

The doctor don't say if it applies to early or late stage of cancer, it's not uncommon to say about late stage of cancer is difficult to fight.

He asked about what happen if 13 years old boy die from chemotherapy?

 

[jillio]

and that's what i'm talking about. Obesity is a medical neglect by your logic because thousands of parents are ill-informed about proper diet and/or are not very active participants in healthy program as recommended by government and health professionals.

Please read my posts carefully Jiro. I said LIFE THREATENING OBESITY that can be determined to be MEDICALLY TREATABLE, thereby removing the threat of loosing one's life as a result.

And, yes, a parent that has allowed a 14 year old to reach the weight of 550 lbs, thus putting their life in immediate danger, is guilty of neglect. Especially when they have blatantly ignored all medical advise that would have prevented such.

But I see where you are going with this. Parents should be allowed to risk their child's life or engage in practices that maim, disfigure, and result in their deaths if they want to in the name of freedom.

 

[jillio]

You still don't answer Jiro's answer.

The doctor don't say if it applies to early or late stage of cancer, it's not uncommon to say about late stage of cancer is difficult to fight.

He asked about what happen if 13 years old boy die from chemotherapy?

If you will read the article, you will see that this boy was not in late stage, but was in fact in the early stages that are curable with a 90% cure rate for the stage he is in. If he advances to 4th stage, it is only because the parents have not provided the treatment to prevent the cancer from advancing.

If someone tells you that your child has a 90% chance of becoming cancer free, and living a long and full life, or a 2% chance of dying from chemotherapy, what chance are you going to put your money on?

 

[jillio]

so what happens if Daniel Hauser is in 10%?

That isn't a 10% chance of dying from the chemotherapy. That is a 10% chance of not having long term survival (5 years or more) from the cancer.:roll:

So, your child has cancer. With treatment, that child has a 90% chance of surviving and becoming cancer free, and you will see that child grow into adulthood. There is a 10% chance that the treatment will not be effective for long term. Which percentage are you going to hedge your bet on?

 

[Jiro]

That isn't a 10% chance of dying from the chemotherapy. That is a 10% chance of not having long term survival (5 years or more) from the cancer.:roll:

There is a chance that the person may live lot shorter than 5 years, yes? it's called health complication, yes?

 

[jillio]

There is a chance that the person may live lot shorter than 5 years, yes? it's called health complication, yes?

A 10% chance, compared to a 90% chance that they will. And that applies to this case alone.

 

[Jiro]

If you will read the article, you will see that this boy was not in late stage, but was in fact in the early stages that are curable with a 90% cure rate for the stage he is in. If he advances to 4th stage, it is only because the parents have not provided the treatment to prevent the cancer from advancing.

If someone tells you that your child has a 90% chance of becoming cancer free, and living a long and full life, or a 2% chance of dying from chemotherapy, what chance are you going to put your money on?

Well - if I choose to have acupuncture instead that has 25% of becoming cancer-free.... is that medical neglect?

 

[Foxrac]

If you will read the article, you will see that this boy was not in late stage, but was in fact in the early stages that are curable with a 90% cure rate for the stage he is in. If he advances to 4th stage, it is only because the parents have not provided the treatment to prevent the cancer from advancing.

If someone tells you that your child has a 90% chance of becoming cancer free, and living a long and full life, or a 2% chance of dying from chemotherapy, what chance are you going to put your money on?

Ok, fine.

I could wish if I find out about Indian culture is typical against on chemotherapy, can't believe about that.

In other way, if one boy has bone cancer then it would be worst situation and tough to fight without remove the limbs.

 

[Jiro]

A 10% chance, compared to a 90% chance that they will. And that applies to this case alone.

i see that you're continuing to refuse to answer the what-if question. go figure.

 

[Jiro]

Please read my posts carefully Jiro. I said LIFE THREATENING OBESITY that can be determined to be MEDICALLY TREATABLE, thereby removing the threat of loosing one's life as a result.

And, yes, a parent that has allowed a 14 year old to reach the weight of 550 lbs, thus putting their life in immediate danger, is guilty of neglect. Especially when they have blatantly ignored all medical advise that would have prevented such.

But I see where you are going with this. Parents should be allowed to risk their child's life or engage in practices that maim, disfigure, and result in their deaths if they want to in the name of freedom.

that's precisely what i'm talking about. Obesity LEADS to health complications and death. Parents continue to feed food to children that contributes to obesity. Parents are not active participants in their lives thus leading to obesity. The government and medical professionals have already gave us information on proper diet and healthy programs THAT IS MEDICALLY TREATABLE for obesity. The parents chose to ignore it and continued with the bad habits. Is that medical neglect? Is that negligence?

 

[jillio]

Well - if I choose to have acupuncture instead that has 25% of becoming cancer-free.... is that medical neglect?

No, because that is your decision to make for yourself. This is not about an adult making a decision for themselves. It is about a 13 year old child.

Can you show me where acupuncture has a 25% cure rate for cancer?

 

[jillio]

i see that you're continuing to refuse to answer the what-if question. go figure.

I'm not refusing to answer anything. There is a chance that a child can die from a single dose of antibiotics. Do you refuse to give them antibiotics when they have an infection?

The fact remains, without treatment, death is guaranteed 100%. With treatment, there is a 90% chance of long term survival.

 

[Jiro]

No, because that is your decision to make for yourself. This is not about an adult making a decision for themselves. It is about a 13 year old child.

Please try to follow the topic. Yes I know this is about a 13 years old child and that's what I'm sticking with. I'm talking about choosing acupuncture for a 13-years old child.

Can you show me where acupuncture has a 25% cure rate for cancer?

Ever heard of hypothetical question? Is it medical neglect if I opt for acupuncture instead of chemotherapy?

 

[Jiro]

I'm not refusing to answer anything. There is a chance that a child can die from a single dose of antibiotics. Do you refuse to give them antibiotics when they have an infection?

The fact remains, without treatment, death is guaranteed 100%. With treatment, there is a 90% chance of long term survival.

You did not answer my hypothetical question - "What would happen if he died from chemotherapy as ordered by court?"

 

[jillio]

Please try to follow the topic. Yes I know this is about a 13 years old child and that's what I'm sticking with. I'm talking about choosing acupuncture for a 13-years old child.


Ever heard of hypothetical question? Is it medical neglect if I opt for acupuncture instead of chemotherapy?

If you are refusing to provide treatment that will provide that child with a 90% chance at life, and that which can save his life in favor of a treatment that has not been shown to do such, and will ultimately guarantee his death as a direct result of not providing treatment, then yes, you are guilty of medical neglect.

Perhaps you are comfortable with taking such chances with children's lives. Thank goodness the majority isn't.

 

[Jiro]

If you are refusing to provide treatment that will provide that child with a 90% chance at life, and that which can save his life in favor of a treatment that has not been shown to do such, and will ultimately guarantee his death as a direct result of not providing treatment, then yes, you are guilty of medical neglect.

Perhaps you are comfortable with taking such chances with children's lives. Thank goodness the majority isn't.

I see. then again - I'm sad for this country. Government knows what's best for us.

and no I'm not refusing to provide treatment. It's because I don't believe in it or I don't like it. (hypothetically)

 

[jillio]

You did not answer my hypothetical question - "What would happen if he died from chemotherapy as ordered by court?"

In order to answer that question, one would have to know that the risk of dying from chemotherapy outweighed the risk of dying from the cancer. No matter how you attempt to spin it, the chances of survival are still in favor of his receiving the chemotherapy.