Mass Shooting in California , 6 dead :(

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Steinhauer said:
Foxrac, in case you need verification that I "read carefully", I can assure you that I do. I am also not "feeble minded" and i certainly do not have a short memory.

You apparently did not research thoroughly enough - because I was able to find at least one source verifying my claim.
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Where is link to source to support your claim?
 
Steinhauer said:
Foxrac, in case you need verification that I "read carefully", I can assure you that I do. I am also not "feeble minded" and I certainly do not have a short memory.

You apparently did not research thoroughly enough - because I was able to find at least one source verifying my claim That Peter Rodgers, the father of the shooter, made similar claims that one of the shooting victims' father made. This made the news yesterday.

here you go:

Alleged Gunman's Family Releases Statement Supporting Gun Control

I looked for the article reported on CNN, and it is no longer there. Since we have already established that "gun control" is purely political in nature, put 2 and 2 together and figure out why Breitbart is the only current source reporting this.
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After check the link, Victim's father and shooter's father's statement are not same, victim's father only claimed about politicians and NRA and shooter's family against guns and support gun control laws.

That's too far from being similar because two claims are different.

Victim's father could suggest that the congress hasn't pass the universal background check due to NRA opposition, along with the politicians that failed to fix the broken mental health.
 
Foxrac said:
After check the link, Victim's father and shooter's father's statement are not same, victim's father only claimed about politicians and NRA and shooter's family against guns and support gun control laws.

That's too far from being similar because two claims are different.

Victim's father could suggest that the congress hasn't pass the universal background check due to NRA opposition, along with the politicians that failed to fix the broken mental health.
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Ok, I guess I need to slow down a little bit and explain a couple of things. First, I stated that Peter Rodgers made a similar statement. I did not say he said the exact same thing.

Stating to the public that you are a staunch supporter of gun control laws is the same exact thing as stating you oppose the NRA and any politicians protecting the 2nd Amendment.

Do not get caught in the tangled web of deception when a staunch supporter of gun control tells you they also support the 2nd Amendment, because they do not. Gun Free Zones are part of a Federal Gun Control Law that these anti-2nd Amendment (although they claim to be for the 2nd Amendment) support.

Instead of addressing the real issues head on (i.e. mental illness), these gun control advocates are placing blame on inanimate objects. The shooter stabbed his roommates to death - he did not use a firearm to commit these crimes. He then drove over several people - again - he did not use a firearm. He did use a firearm to kill 3 people and injure others. Why aren't these "gun control supporters' trying to ration the gas used in the shooters BMW, or even ban knives? Why would they be placing blame on another inanimate object such as a firearm, while preventing lawful Americans from defending themselves in gun free zones?
 
Steinhauer said:
Ok, I guess I need to slow down a little bit and explain a couple of things. First, I stated that Peter Rodgers made a similar statement. I did not say he said the exact same thing.

Stating to the public that you are a staunch supporter of gun control laws is the same exact thing as stating you oppose the NRA and any politicians protecting the 2nd Amendment.

Do not get caught in the tangled web of deception when a staunch supporter of gun control tells you they also support the 2nd Amendment, because they do not.
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That's not similar to me.

Victim's father hadn't explicitly claim about against guns or support gun control laws, that's different from shooter's family.

NRA fought HARD to kill universal background check that where most Americans support via polls. You can be pro-gun supporters + support universal background check. I don't believe that background check is violation of the constitution and US Supreme Court didn't strike down, however they limit enforcement of assault weapon law (already expired) to federal authorities only.

I'm pro-2nd Amendment, but I'm favor universal background check to prevent citizens with mental illness from getting guns until they are well treated and stable for years. We need to fix the broken mental health system, but not all mass shooting is unavoidable, that's unfortunate.
 
Oh god... The mentioned "The Hunger Games" in the CNN article. Here comes the blame movie violence for everything crap again.
 
Wow I just watched his youtube video to now. What a moron... I don't think i've ever seen a real life god complex murderer.
 
Steinhauer said:
Instead of addressing the real issues head on (i.e. mental illness), these gun control advocates are placing blame on inanimate objects. The shooter stabbed his roommates to death - he did not use a firearm to commit these crimes. He then drove over several people - again - he did not use a firearm. He did use a firearm to kill 3 people and injure others. Why aren't these "gun control supporters' trying to ration the gas used in the shooters BMW, or even ban knives? Why would they be placing blame on another inanimate object such as a firearm, while preventing lawful Americans from defending themselves in gun free zones?
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Unlike southern states, the gun culture is not popular in California so I'm doubtfully that loosen the gun laws will going around in this state due to lower gun ownership rate, also different political climate as well. Some business owners don't believe in guns due to religious or cultural objection, also insurance companies require businesses to post no guns allowed sign as condition of coverage, also customer demands may be blamed for that.

Not all life create equally, anyway.
 
Steinhauer said:
Just one more point then i will leave this alone ... if you were to ban firearms, it would not have prevented this tragedy .. quite possibly, it would have made it far worse. This kid was smart... and crazy. Just like Ted Bundy:

Ted Bundy killed more than 100 women, his lawyer reveals - Mirror Online

Ted Bundy did not need a firearm
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Either did the Boston Strangler. I was sleeping over a friend apartment in Boston when this was happening . My friend and I where up late talking and all of sudden her closet's door fly open and everything fall out and man did we scream ! We where is was the Boston Strangler !
 
Catastrophic said:
Wow I just watched his youtube video to now. What a moron... I don't think i've ever seen a real life god complex murderer.
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He definitely had a god-complex;

I am not part of the human race. Humanity has rejected me. The females of the human species have never wanted to mate with me, so how could I possibly consider myself part of humanity? Humanity has never accepted me among them, and now I know why. I am more than human. I am superior to them all. I am Elliot Rodger… Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent… Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god. Humanity is a disgusting, depraved, and evil species. It is my purpose to punish them all. I will purify the world of everything that is wrong with it. On the Day of Retribution, I will truly be a powerful god, punishing everyone I deem to be impure and depraved.
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Foxrac said:
That's not similar to me.

Victim's father hadn't explicitly claim about against guns or support gun control laws, that's different from shooter's family.

NRA fought HARD to kill universal background check that where most Americans support via polls. You can be pro-gun supporters + support universal background check. I don't believe that background check is violation of the constitution and US Supreme Court didn't strike down, however they limit enforcement of assault weapon law (already expired) to federal authorities only.

I'm pro-2nd Amendment, but I'm favor universal background check to prevent citizens with mental illness from getting guns until they are well treated and stable for years. We need to fix the broken mental health system, but not all mass shooting is unavoidable, that's unfortunate.
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I can see that you already got tangled in the web of deception.

It has always been against the law for someone who is mentally unstable to own or possess a firearm.

Do you honestly think that the NRA is trying to allow mentally unstable people the ability to own or possess firearms?

if so, please explain.
 
Steinhauer said:
I can see that you already got tangled in the web of deception.

It has always been against the law for someone who is mentally unstable to own or possess a firearm.

Do you honestly think that the NRA is trying to allow mentally unstable people the ability to own or possess firearms?

if so, please explain.
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No, I'm not tangled in the web of deception and you failed to understand about difference in statement. Victim's father didn't explicitly state that he is against on guns, but he criticized at politicians and NRA because politicians failed to address the broken mental health system and didn't pass universal background check, also NRA heavily opposed to universal background check that caused politicians to not vote this bill.

The existing federal law about mentally unstable has flaws because it is ONLY covered after you are involuntary commitment to mental hospital that ordered by court or sheriff so that will appear on background check system. It don't count if you are voluntarily visit therapist or go to mental hospital, it will not appear on background check.

The congress want to pass the universal background check and extended to include anyone who see therapists, psychiatrists, admit to mental hospital or see primary doctor about mental illness to be reported to background check, also patients need demonstrate that they are not danger to anyone or themselves after years of treatment for mental illness and frequently mental screening, before they can get gun rights restored.

NRA fought so hard and they didn't want universal background check, also they don't want to have extended to existing background check about mental illness.

Despite about pro-2nd Amendment, I'm no NRA supporter for some reasons.
 
Foxrac said:
No, I'm not tangled in the web of deception and you failed to understand about difference in statement. Victim's father didn't explicitly state that he is against on guns, but he criticized at politicians and NRA because politicians failed to address the broken mental health system and didn't pass universal background check, also NRA heavily opposed to universal background check that caused politicians to not vote this bill.

The existing federal law about mentally unstable has flaws because it is ONLY covered after you are involuntary commitment to mental hospital that ordered by court or sheriff so that will appear on background check system. It don't count if you are voluntarily visit therapist or go to mental hospital, it will not appear on background check.

The congress want to pass the universal background check and extended to include anyone who see therapists, psychiatrists, admit to mental hospital or see primary doctor about mental illness to be reported to background check, also patients need demonstrate that they are not danger to anyone or themselves after years of treatment for mental illness and frequently mental screening, before they can get gun rights restored.

NRA fought so hard and they didn't want universal background check, also they don't want to have extended to existing background check about mental illness.

Despite about pro-2nd Amendment, I'm no NRA supporter for some reasons.
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Here is what Peter Rodgers said through his attorney:

"My client's mission in life will be to try to prevent any such tragedies from ever happening again," he said. "This country, this world, needs to address mental illness and the ramifications from not recognizing these illnesses."
Shifman said the family is "staunchly against guns" and supports gun-control laws. "They are extremely, extremely upset that anybody was hurt under these circumstances," he said.
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No matter how much spin you attempt to put on this ... those two statements are similar. They actually are nearly identical. Those "gun control laws" that Peter Rodgers supports are the same 'gun control laws" the victims father supports.

Do you understand now? You cannot be pro 2nd Amendment while restricting the freedom of law abiding citizens right to carry.

So, can we move on to exactly why the NRA opposes useless universal background checks? Elliot passed his.
 
Steinhauer said:
Here is what Peter Rodgers said through his attorney:

No matter how much spin you attempt to put on this ... those two statements are similar. They actually are nearly identical.
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Not really, it is not similar, even not identical. :lol:

It is only similar to your standard, but you failed to realize about different phrases and I know victim's father means about blaming on politicians (including federal and state) and NRA over failed universal background check, that's not anti-gun law but just add bureaucracy to ensure that citizens with mental illness are reported on background check system.

Feel free to label me as anti-gun rights and I'm really don't care about your statement that toward to me, also ADers know that I'm pro-2nd Amendment but I make fair compensation to fix the broken mental health system and enhance the background check. I know you have a difficult to understand and you went thorough nonsense, useless debate.
 
There are people who are good to hide mental illness to access to weapons. It's one scary thing... blaming politicians or NRA will not help nor solve the problem. Should we screen every humans for mental illness? I don't think they will.. not at least now.

Prayers to those victims involved.
 
Calvin said:
There are people who are good to hide mental illness to access to weapons. It's one scary thing... blaming politicians or NRA will not help nor solve the problem. Should we screen every humans for mental illness? I don't think they will.. not at least now.

Prayers to those victims involved.
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It is possible - bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and other serious mental illness are not appear until between teenagers and young adults.

If mental illness is out of question so it could be cold-blooded killers. :cold:
 
Steinhauer said:
Here is what Peter Rodgers said through his attorney:

"My client's mission in life will be to try to prevent any such tragedies from ever happening again," he said. "This country, this world, needs to address mental illness and the ramifications from not recognizing these illnesses."
Shifman said the family is "staunchly against guns" and supports gun-control laws. "They are extremely, extremely upset that anybody was hurt under these circumstances," he said.

No matter how much spin you attempt to put on this ... those two statements are similar. They actually are nearly identical. Those "gun control laws" that Peter Rodgers supports are the same 'gun control laws" the victims father supports.

Do you understand now? You cannot be pro 2nd Amendment while restricting the freedom of law abiding citizens right to carry.

So, can we move on to exactly why the NRA opposes useless universal background checks? Elliot passed his.
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I don't see any statements from the killer's family blaming the NRA or gun lobbies for what their son did. From what they did say I take it to mean that the family was shocked that their son went the gun route since they (the family) are against guns (whatever that means), and support gun-control laws. As parents, they expected their child felt the same way, so they were surprised that he used guns (in addition to knives and his car) as deadly weapons.

The family DID emphasize the mental illness of the killer, how they couldn't get an adequate response to that risk. That seemed to be their major concern.
 
Elliot Rodger's parents had read his manifesto and were driving to stop their son | Mail Online

Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Kelly Hoover said the sheriff's office 'was not aware of any videos until after the shooting rampage occurred.'

Sheriff Bill Brown has defended the officers' actions, but the case highlights the challenges that police face in assessing the mental health of adults, particularly those with no history of violent breakdowns, institutionalisations or serious crimes.

'Obviously, looking back on this, it's a very tragic situation and we certainly wish that we could turn the clock back and maybe change some things,' Brown told CBS' 'Face the Nation' on Sunday.

'At the time deputies interacted with him, he was able to convince them that he was OK,' he said.

It's not clear why the deputies did not become aware of the videos.

Rodger, writing in a manifesto, said he was relieved his apartment wasn't searched because deputies would have uncovered the cache of weapons he used in the beach town rampage Friday in which he killed six people and then, authorities say, himself.
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No way! The cops didn't watch his video in April when they met him. I wonder why. The evidence was right there. They must be lazy to do their jobs. His parents should keep telling them to watch the video because it was that serious. If the parents did, maybe they gave up afterwards.
 
Mental health issues is the pink elephant no one wants to address flaws in system or put funds into. How many more people have to die?

My sympathies to every single person that is affected by this.
 
Reba said:
When someone is experiencing so much deep grief I would let him vent. His heart is broken, and he can't even see straight. It's tragic. :(
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Yes, losing the child due to shooting is extremely devastated to family. :(

I can't imagine if my future child dies from tragic event and not sure about change my belief, also much worse than gun-related road rage that used as tactic only.
 
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