MAC users suck....

I use Mac and Windows both equally. Both got pros and cons. Mac users don't suck. :)
 
I bought my first MacBook Pro to use during my studies in school for IT.

I bought it on the recommendation of a friend who has been in IT for years. He said that many companies are switching to Apple for workstations.

But my college program does not have a class for Macs. That means that if I want to learn how to configure Macs and list that as a marketable skill to IT departments, I have to learn it myself on my own Mac.

So I have Windows 7 Pro dual-booted on my Mac. I am running VMware to run Linux and Windows Server.

The Mac haters in my program have given me crap for using a Mac instead of a "real computer". They said that the Mac wouldn't be able to keep up with the demands of the class.

It has been and is working just fine so far. No problems whatsoever, running Win7 (dual-booted, not virtualized) and no problem virtualizing Linux and Win Server.

So when I'm done with the program, I'll have an extra skill over that of my class mates.

I'll also have a computer that will last 10 years or better. I've bought many "regular" laptops before and they barely last 3 or 4 years, if I'm lucky. This Macbook Pro is built like a tank and the manufactured components that went into it are high quality.

Unlike my father's HP laptop whose components literally melted, because HP cut corners to use solder with a lower melting point. His HP laptop lasted about 1.2 years before self-destruction.

I don't have to worry about that with my Macbook Pro. But, to be fair, if you paid for an HP what you pay for a new Mac, you generally wouldn't have that worry with the HP either. You get what you pay for.

Question for PFH: If you are condemning Mac owners for the so-called politics of Apple's CEO at the time, should Microsoft OS users and Linux users be condemned for the politics of Bill Gates and Linus Torvalds, respectively?

Aren't you really trying to apply the fallacy of "guilt by association"?

(Besides, the sensationalist headlines are wrong. Jobs didn't maliciously predict that Obama would be a one-term president. He advised Obama that Obama had to be friendlier to business interests if he wanted to win re-election, and offered to help Obama. But that doesn't sell newspapers and advertising time on TV, does it?)
 
Jiro said:
oh come on.

Microsoft did similar donation to elementary schools too and educational discount on software for college students. majority of Redmond's public functions (where Microsoft is located) is basically funded by Bill Gates. amazing.
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Hey, I didn't say Microsoft didn't do it too, but Apple pioneered this technique. There's a reason why every computer lab in the public school system back in the 80s and 90s was full of Macintoshes, IIes, etc. It's not because Apple was being generous out of the goodness of their heart. It was part of their business plan.
 
DeafBadger said:
I bought my first MacBook Pro to use during my studies in school for IT.

I bought it on the recommendation of a friend who has been in IT for years. He said that many companies are switching to Apple for workstations.

But my college program does not have a class for Macs. That means that if I want to learn how to configure Macs and list that as a marketable skill to IT departments, I have to learn it myself on my own Mac.

So I have Windows 7 Pro dual-booted on my Mac. I am running VMware to run Linux and Windows Server.

The Mac haters in my program have given me crap for using a Mac instead of a "real computer". They said that the Mac wouldn't be able to keep up with the demands of the class.

It has been and is working just fine so far. No problems whatsoever, running Win7 (dual-booted, not virtualized) and no problem virtualizing Linux and Win Server.

So when I'm done with the program, I'll have an extra skill over that of my class mates.

I'll also have a computer that will last 10 years or better. I've bought many "regular" laptops before and they barely last 3 or 4 years, if I'm lucky. This Macbook Pro is built like a tank and the manufactured components that went into it are high quality.

Unlike my father's HP laptop whose components literally melted, because HP cut corners to use solder with a lower melting point. His HP laptop lasted about 1.2 years before self-destruction.

I don't have to worry about that with my Macbook Pro. But, to be fair, if you paid for an HP what you pay for a new Mac, you generally wouldn't have that worry with the HP either. You get what you pay for.

Question for PFH: If you are condemning Mac owners for the so-called politics of Apple's CEO at the time, should Microsoft OS users and Linux users be condemned for the politics of Bill Gates and Linus Torvalds, respectively?

Aren't you really trying to apply the fallacy of "guilt by association"?

(Besides, the sensationalist headlines are wrong. Jobs didn't maliciously predict that Obama would be a one-term president. He advised Obama that Obama had to be friendlier to business interests if he wanted to win re-election, and offered to help Obama. But that doesn't sell newspapers and advertising time on TV, does it?)
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Just to answer your question, I use Ubuntu.

Now see where this is going, buddy?
 
posts from hell said:
Just to answer your question, I use Ubuntu.

Now see where this is going, buddy?
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Good for you. I use Linux Mint.

And no, you did not answer my question. If you had, you would be analyzing the politics of all the programmers who developed the various components of GNU/Linux, including the the politics of the distributions that use different philosophies to piece together their distributions, and also the politics of the hardware manufacturers and company officials who made the hardware that you are using.

Far from answering my question, you've made your task a lot harder. Now you're in the position of having to vet the political opinions of hundreds or more people, instead of just a few in the case of Apple.

At what point do you say, "Forget about it, I'm just not responsible for the opinions of people whom I have no interaction or control over... I'm going to buy, or use for free, what I believe are the best products, hardware and software, that the market provides."?
 
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DeafBadger said:
Good for you. I use Linux Mint.

And no, you did not answer my question. If you had, you would be analyzing the politics of all the programmers who developed the various components of GNU/Linux, including the the politics of the distributions that use different philosophies to piece together their distributions, and also the politics of the hardware manufacturers and company officials who made the hardware that you are using.

Far from answering my question, you've made your task a lot harder. Now you're in the position of having to vet the political opinions of hundreds or more people, instead of just a few in the case of Apple.

At what point do you say, "Forget about it, I'm just not responsible for the opinions of people whom I have no interaction or control over... I'm going to buy, or use for free, what I believe are the best products, hardware and software, that the market provides."?
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Let's not get off track here: Apple is hoarding cash. They're doing it well.

How is Linux doing that?
 
It's always better to use all, or multiple, since it offers something like a heterozygous advantage. :)

I use:
Both major linux distributions (debian & fedora)
NT 6.1 and 5.1
Android 2, 3, soon 4 hopefully.
iOS 5

No interest in using OS X, have used snow leopard and lion before but does not leave a lasting impression for me to continue needing to use it. iOS has more appeal factor.

Everything else is a tad political or opinionated, cause it becomes a discussion on "iphone is better than android" or "windows kills osx", and so on.

TheWriteAlex said:
Hey, I didn't say Microsoft didn't do it too, but Apple pioneered this technique. There's a reason why every computer lab in the public school system back in the 80s and 90s was full of Macintoshes, IIes, etc. It's not because Apple was being generous out of the goodness of their heart. It was part of their business plan.
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I can agree with this one, I recall all the computers I used at elementary, junior high were only apple mac's. Mac 2, 2e from the 80's and 90s. There was rarely any flexibility as there were only one or none x86 PC in the lab or someone's special computer in the school. I grew up with a 286 at home, so I knew my dos and windows roots from home, but learned to use old macs at school. It wasn't until high school that different choices became more available, so definitely can see the power struggle thing going on with the young pawn kids.
 
DeafBadger said:
..I'll also have a computer that will last 10 years or better. I've bought many "regular" laptops before and they barely last 3 or 4 years, if I'm lucky. This Macbook Pro is built like a tank and the manufactured components that went into it are high quality.

Unlike my father's HP laptop whose components literally melted, because HP cut corners to use solder with a lower melting point. His HP laptop lasted about 1.2 years before self-destruction.

I don't have to worry about that with my Macbook Pro. But, to be fair, if you paid for an HP what you pay for a new Mac, you generally wouldn't have that worry with the HP either. You get what you pay for.
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If you get deeper into the root of the issue, it doesn't have to do with Apple's components are better than HP or some nonsense, because as some of you may know Apple sources their component work to the same few companies that work with HP and other manufacturers.
Case in point, Foxconn is one these mfgs, while they produce pcb's and such for iWhatever, they also make motherboards, and components and such for HP's PCs. It should be more of an issue with batch production, schematic, or QC/QA error over your father's melted laptop.

You did say the right thing by 'you get what you pay for', I feel that's more like the underlying issue.
 
naisho said:
If you get deeper into the root of the issue, it doesn't have to do with Apple's components are better than HP or some nonsense, because as some of you may know Apple sources their component work to the same few companies that work with HP and other manufacturers.
Case in point, Foxconn is one these mfgs, while they produce pcb's and such for iWhatever, they also make motherboards, and components and such for HP's PCs. It should be more of an issue with batch production, schematic, or QC/QA error over your father's melted laptop.

You did say the right thing by 'you get what you pay for', I feel that's more like the underlying issue.
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Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that Apple made better components than other manufacturers. I was saying that manufactured components are generally the same quality at the same price point. My father's HP laptop was a cheap $400 model. And you're right, it was probably the manufacturing batch or model. That particular model had problems across the board if the forum chatter was any indication.

He got another HP laptop from State Surplus that was used in a government office. It was depreciated so the State replaced it. But this was, at one time, an expensive HP model for enterprise use. This one is built like a like a tank and can take a beating. I'm impressed with that one. But the State sure didn't pay $400 for that one. They paid a price similar to current MacPro computers, or more.

I have to say, though, that I'm not enthusiastic about Mac OS X. It's alright, but it doesn't strike me as the "revolutionary OS" that some people say it is. I like Linux Mint more. The hardware is really good though. I'm very pleased with that.
 
posts from hell said:
Let's not get off track here: Apple is hoarding cash. They're doing it well.

How is Linux doing that?
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Seriously?

That cash finances research and development for new products. It is every company's prerogative to use their funds as they wish, within the parameters of the law. It also gives them the means to acquire other companies and their technologies. They are no different than any other company out there. If you disagree, lobby Congress the change the laws.

As for Linux, the major companies that distribute Linux do so with a profit in mind. They sell technical support and extra software with their Linux distributions, primarily to enterprise operations. I'm quite certain they have cash on hand, too, to finance their next move in business. The OS is free; their technical support and specialized software is not.
 
netrox said:
You didn't read the whole story, did you? Steve Jobs warned him that with excessive regulations, Obama will be a one term president but *offered* to help his campaign.
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I did read the whole story. I hate to admit that I agree with Jobs on Obama's presidency term. I feel that Obama is not a right person for presidency.
 
Apple supplied our local public schools with iPads for the students.

Lots of places use more than one platform or OS.

One college here uses Mac for the graphic design and related majors and courses, and uses Windows PCs for everything else.

When I was in the Navy, we used Mac in the public affairs office for desktop publishing but all the other departments used non-Macs.

I think some consumers and businesses are wising up and picking out what best suits their own needs rather than being hooked on brand names.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Hey, I didn't say Microsoft didn't do it too, but Apple pioneered this technique. There's a reason why every computer lab in the public school system back in the 80s and 90s was full of Macintoshes, IIes, etc. It's not because Apple was being generous out of the goodness of their heart. It was part of their business plan.
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no.......... sure it was part of their business plan but a very tiny picture. Big picture? Apple made a product that everybody likes. plain and simple... plus - its products are sustainable and viable for long-term use.

and Microsoft? PC? unsustainable. costly. difficult. extremely short-term. That is their business plan. Make it so cheap that people will just keep replacing it when in fact - it's actually very costly. It's their clever conniving plan to trick people into thinking that their $599.99 laptop is cheap when it's actually not.

How many people you know have replaced their PC/laptop in just 4 years? and how many people you know have replaced their Apple products in same timeframe?

by your logic - the students from schools that HAVE PC would end up with PC long-term but on the contrary... many switched to Apple and have at least one apple product such as iPod or iPhone. Why not Windows Mobile or Zune?

I know what works and what doesn't work. I came from a long history of Microsoft/PC starting from MS-DOS. My high school had Apple but I was still with PC. Why? Because Windows was a much better product than MacOS at that time. Now since Apple dumped PowerPC for Intel... it was a life-changing moment in the course of humanity. and Windows/PC? They still haven't evolved since 90's. That's the failure in Microsoft's business plan and that's the success in Apple's business plan.
 
Jiro said:
no.......... sure it was part of their business plan but a very tiny picture. Big picture? Apple made a product that everybody likes. plain and simple... plus - its products are sustainable and viable for long-term use.

and Microsoft? PC? unsustainable. costly. difficult. extremely short-term. That is their business plan. Make it so cheap that people will just keep replacing it when in fact - it's actually very costly. It's their clever conniving plan to trick people into thinking that their $599.99 laptop is cheap when it's actually not.
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But if it weren't for some computers being available at entry level prices, some people would never be able to afford any computer for home use.

Honestly, my MacBook Pro is my fourth Apple computer I've owned during my lifetime but it's my first new one. My other three Macs were used computers. Otherwise, I could never have afforded them.

My first PC was also second hand, which I was able to obtain because someone else was upgrading. My subsequent PCs and first laptop were bought new, and were affordable because they were not Macs.

Each one of my computers (Macs and Windows) have gone on to new homes of people who couldn't afford to buy any computers.

Not everyone needs the latest and greatest whiz bang product but they can seriously benefit from internet access and basic computer processes. My older computers opened up doors for less financially able families and students.

Sure, more expensive products usually last longer but there is still a niche for entry-level basic products.

How many people you know have replaced their PC/laptop in just 4 years? and how many people you know have replaced their Apple products in same timeframe?
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Are you kidding? Some people replace their Apple products every time a new one hits the market. They're replacing their iPads with iPad2, or waiting in long overnight lines for the newest iPhone long before the previous model has worn out.

It's all about marketing. Young people especially don't want to be caught with "old" products. :lol:

by your logic - the students from schools that HAVE PC would end up with PC long-term but on the contrary... many switched to Apple and have at least one apple product such as iPod or iPhone. Why not Windows Mobile or Zune?
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Marketing and snob appeal carries a lot of weight.

I know what works and what doesn't work. I came from a long history of Microsoft/PC starting from MS-DOS.
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Heh, heh, I used MS-DOS. For me, that was advanced computing, back in the day. I go further back than that (late 70's). :lol:

True, I'm not so tech savvy now. But I also studied and worked in marketing related fields, so I know how product promotion works.

...That's the failure in Microsoft's business plan and that's the success in Apple's business plan.
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Failure in what sense? Is Microsoft going broke?
 
There is a place for lower price points. I'm not criticizing that at all. One of my best low-priced purchases was an e-Machines laptop that I bought in March 2005 for about $250. It still works. Sure, the hardware can barely keep up these days. Ubuntu 10 is on it now and it's a decent web browsing, email, and word processing machine. Not much else. But it's still going. So it's not that low priced means "poor quality"... it's just hit-and-miss. You're never quite sure what you're going to get.
 
So when I build a rig...

There are only a handful of companies that build components now... and you can buy from company A or B, the branded chips/boards or the unbranded chips/boards...

I build a PC, I spend a bit more, laying out $800-1000 instead of $300-500 for a cheep pre-built.

They last about 10 years... and are still cheaper then the MACs in term of components... (seen the prices on those nice Mac screens!!)

Don't know what you guys -do- to your laptops but I have an old 5500 Gateway laptop that -still- runs... it does what I need it to do... internet, word processing, and a time killer or two... (upgraded ram once and the HD once)

My new Laptop (as I won't build these is a ... hp pavilion, one of the ones with the stupid battery issues... that HP did take care of...) I expect it to last about 8 years and still be able to play games (ES5 Oblivion, SPORE, Dragon Age) get on the internet and do word processing... It won't play the latest and grated games soon... but for now ...

I do my research when available, stay away from most components known to fail... (Hitachi deathstars anyone?)

I don't take them swimming, it isn't the 90s where every 3 months there's a huge processor jump. Now the bottleneck is the bus speed so till that changes... or people besides CAD programs and super-duper 3d animation programs are written to utilize more then one processor... or we develop an integrated traffic-cop to auto switch processor (and not in a server box)... my PCs work fine.

*shrug*

Same architecture (chip use), same graphics cards, same... well almost everything but the OS...

and I can fix the PC when it does -wonky- ...

(some Windows OS tend to eat themselves every 8-12 months... well not running 7 on this rig... that would be the one major benefit of running anything else)

(Have a Minty fresh frakenPC in the back for students... *heh heh heh*)
 
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