LGBT Discrimination in Arizona

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If religious people want to start their own businesses, they have to be prepared to serve everyone in America. If they don't want to, then move to another country where this kind of practice is acceptable.
 
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shel90 said:
If religious people want to start their own businesses, they have to be prepared to serve everyone in America. If they don't want to, then move to another country where this kind of practice is acceptable.
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or move to a Christian compound
 
Steinhauer said:
I didn't ask for this war, you guys did. So it is war you will get.
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Your kind of people oppressed too many people who aren't like them for a long time and now people are taking a stand. No more.
 
:DShel, Mew, Calvin, Jiro - some great posts! :applause:
 
IMO:

If a potential customer or client requests the business to perform a service that it is against the owner's religious or ethical beliefs, then the owner should refuse to comply. However, with that refusal, the owner should accept the consequences that result. That would be, boycotting the business, fining the business, bad publicity, etc. If one's convictions are strong enough, and are convictions, not just "feelings," then one should be strong enough to stand behind them.

I speak from conviction and experience. As a Christian, I've stood my ground at work; sometimes I was fired, sometimes I was vindicated. However, I stood my ground without consideration for the outcome.

As Martin Luther said, "I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen."

People of conscience shouldn't depend on the government to make laws to defend them before determining their positions in life.

IMO
 
What if your business was requested to perform a service that supported blatant Skinheads, KKK, audists, people who supported honor killings, racists, homophobes, anti-Semites, people who publicly hated America, mockers of the ADA, members of NAMBLA, etc.? (For example, a print shop that would be making banners to promote their rallies, or printing t-shirts with their slogans.) Would you do it?
 
I am thinking Community Standards, Community Standards. It is complicated.
Even McCain and Romney urged a veto.
 
Mewtilation said:
We shouldn't HAVE to go to a store like that to get an additional bride or groom placed on a cake, that's the POINT! It wasn't too long ago that this same exact thing was happening with black people. Do you support the discrimination of the African American population, too? By not granting homosexuals equal rights, you're basically saying that you feel it's okay to discriminate against people for things they can not CONTROL! I didn't wake up one morning and smell some damn coffee and decide I was going to be a lesbian! It was something inside of me that wasn't attracted to men... Did you decide to be straight, or was it just something you felt? It's just something you feel, you don't have to choose! :roll: :mad: I don't choose to be gay anymore than a black man chooses to be black. Separation of church and state, your religious beliefs are not allowed to govern MY FREEDOM or ability to not be discriminated against! Not everyone believes in your religion, and your religion did NOT start marriage. Marriage existed before the forming of your religion. Native American's performed same sex marriages over here before the white man came to America because their beliefs were that souls do not have gender, that is only your body.

Fact of the matter is, gay marriage is passing more and more in every state, every time... it's becoming accepted, and you're just going to have to deal with the fact that you can't make people fall under your beliefs. If you don't support gay rights or gay marriage, don't! You don't have to support it to treat everyone the same. Don't be gay! Don't have a gay wedding! You nor does anyone against gay rights have the option to discriminate against gays for any reason! Again, African American's just went through this not too long ago. Pretty soon gays will be in the same situation, where nobody thinks twice because everyone are people, and not orientations.

17 states now support marriage equality, and more and more states ( Texas recently and Virginia ) Say their ban on same sex marriage is unconstitutional. So, you'll just have to deal with the fact your close minded inability to treat people based on their moral character and not their sexual orientation, is old, outdated, close minded and fading away. :) The sooner people realize they can't shove their religion down others throats, the sooner people realize their religion can't govern peoples choices, the sooner this country will become a better place. You're entitled to your beliefs, but discrimination is wrong no matter how you look at it. If YOUR beliefs say you don't support gay marriage, that means YOU can't be gay married. It doesn't mean go out and make it so other people can't get gay married.

As far as your "war" comment is concerned, this has been an ongoing battle hardcore over the past couple of years. Based on 17 states supporting gay marriage now, and the 12 others ruling the bans on marriage equality are unconstitutional, and the fact that in 2004 28% of Americans supported same sex marriage and now 56% support it... I think you're losing. :) :giggle: Have fun with that, I'll bake you a rainbow cake to show good sportsmanship. :)
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Damn now I want some cake , I hope it will a be chocolate cake .
 
Steinhauer said:
You apparently are not up to date on the news. The reason this bill was brought before the Governor in the first place, is because of a court case in New Mexico where a Christian photographer was sued for refusing to photograph a same sex wedding. Same sex marriage isn't even legal in New Mexico.

And like Foxrac brought up, the baker in Oregon.

Excuse me, but why in the hell would someone force anyone to participate in something they find conscientiously objectionable? This is America, not some despotic regime.

Another thing, the Governor of Arizona cut off all benefits to illegal immigrants. Yet, after reading her response to why she vetoed this bill, I can somewhat understand why. No one in Arizona has forced a person of faith to do something against their faith, then sued them when they refused. When and if it does, I expect she will reverse her stance.


Forcing a Christian to participate in Samhain, is like forcing an Orthodox Jewish deli owner to serve bacon. The GLBT community that is so full of how wonderful they are that they have to cram their agenda down everyone's throats needs a big wake up call. Other people have rights too, and you cannot tread on them without repercussions.
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Arizona doesn't have anti-discrmination law that cover sexual orientation so state of Arizona has no standing to fine the businesses over discrimination case.

Oregon, Washington, Colorado and New Mexico has anti-discrmination law and they have standing to fine the businesses whatever violate the law, but state of Arizona cannot involve nor fine the businesses.

Do you see big difference - state with anti-discrmination law AND state with no anti-discrmination law.
 
Mewtilation said:
Clearly... We should all just go back to having separate drinking fountains for black people and women not being able to vote or work. We should be stay at home baby makers and make the men support us. :roll: After all, it IS the only way!

Also, we shouldn't wear mixed fabrics, men shouldn't be able to shave and lordy stone the people working Sundays! :laugh2: Where to start, where to start... :hmm:
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And Jewish people would not be allowed build a Temple in their town. This happen when I was gowning up . People where upset if there was a Temple more ' Jews' would move in. We had a fancy golf club at end of our street and my dad was not allowed to join. The only time I got onto the club ground was in the winter was to go sledding . I bet some people would not allowed their kids be there if they knew my sister and I where there too!
The bill did not pass because people would had been discrimination against anyone for their religion belief or race. It also would have given the state a bad name and hurt their economy .
 
Reba said:
What if your business was requested to perform a service that supported blatant Skinheads, KKK, audists, people who supported honor killings, racists, homophobes, anti-Semites, people who publicly hated America, mockers of the ADA, members of NAMBLA, etc.? (For example, a print shop that would be making banners to promote their rallies, or printing t-shirts with their slogans.) Would you do it?
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I will refuse to serve.

Remember about PA bakery refused to serve the cake to family that want put Nazi name on cake - it was in 2006 or 2007.
 
Foxrac said:
I will refuse to serve.

Remember about PA bakery refused to serve the cake to family that want put Nazi name on cake - it was in 2006 or 2007.
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So, would you say that it is acceptable to refuse service to customers?
 
Mewtilation said:
The part YOU keep forgetting about is the part where your religious liberty doesn't get to interfere with my freedom.... end of story. :D

Don't like gay marriage, don't gay marry! That's the beauty of religion, not everyone has to believe in the same thing or support it! It is a CHOICE... not a requirement... thankfully. You can't force me to believe in your crap and I can't force you to believe in mine. However, what goes hand in hand with this is you can't force anyone to believe in your CRAP that is against gay marriage. Not everyone believes in that, thankfully. So, your one man one woman standpoint / belief is only founded on your religion. Which again, can not dictate others actions or control them. You have no legal ground or standing... which is why gay marriage being legalized faster than taco bell gives people diarrhea. It's glorious. I can't wait until it keeps going and going and all states approve it... and then I can just start a thread that is full of little :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:'s... It's happening, and there's nothing you can do about it except throw temper-tantrums like 2 year olds... :D I find it quite humorous, all these temper-tantrums over equality... hilarious really... just makes me laugh. :D

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the part you keep forgetting is that your freedom does not get to interfere with my freedom.

End of story.


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Steinhauer said:
the part you keep forgetting is that your freedom does not get to interfere with my freedom.

End of story.


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so whose freedom values more? yours?
 
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