Learning pace of Deaf vs. Hearing kids

sr171soars said:
*Shakes my head*

It is as if the educational system doesn't believe those that are deaf can learn anything... I was mainstreamed and I wasn't given any "slack" so to speak. In other words, I had a set of expectations to meet and I did that and more. Of course, being in a mainstreamed situation sort of "lumps" you with the hearing.

As for deaf schools, it really boggles my mind that in general (not all deaf schools are like this) they don't expect much from the deaf kids. What a waste... No wonder many have so much trouble in the real world after they leave school.
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Yeah, low expectations has always been a problem in Deaf ed.

I remember my best friend and I got a Flintstone dictionary as a gift from our resources teacher when we were both mainstreamed. We felt insulted as both of us had better English skills then even many of our hearing peers.

That dictionary was like around first grade level. :roll:
 
sr171soars said:
Shel90 - I'm glad to hear they are allowing more deaf kids to use the public school curriculum. FYI - I just wish the public school curriculum was tougher than it is now. I do believe expectations can be much higher and kids can respond to it. IMHO - I think there has been too much "dumbing" down the standards over the years. But that is another story...;)
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I think the public school curriculm here in MD have VERY high standards. I know from experience as a teacher using it and from my daughter's school. By 2nd grade, the children are required to do a BCR to explain how they solved math problems.

My first grade class math curriculm is so tough cuz it involves a lot of critical thinking. I am impressed with it.
 
shel90 said:
I grew up around hearing kids and went to the same school as them. I think my learning pace was the same as them even though I had to compromise some things like extra hours spent with speech therapists and one on one time with the deaf ed teacher.

If u are asking about the pace of congnitive processing skills, I think they are the same but deaf children learn with the visual approach while hearing kids learn with the auditory approach.

Hope that is what your question was referring to.
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Exactly, shel.
 
rockdrummer said:
Thank you Shel and while I respect your view I am really looking for statistics and studies etc. as opposed to opinions and life experiences. While I do beleive those are important, they don't provide and accurate cross section.
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Look for the comparative cognitive research done by awell respected cognitive psychologist named Marshark. He has numerous published papers, and a couple of books.
 
I meant that deaf are not expected to do as well as hearing do when it come to learning stuff.

This is often reflected in courses for the deaf in either mainstream or deaf. I've never taken a biological course nor do I know many of the grammatical rules for English. I remember my little sister had to explain what a helping verb is to me.

That's because I spent most of my life in special ed. I recall that one poster had to color in anatomical stuff for her science class. You'd never see stuff like this for hearing classes.

Both my friend and I had better English skills than many of our hearing peers so we felt insulted when our teacher gave us what was either a kindergarten level or first grade level dictionary. We were in 7 grade at the time.
 
i want to add soemthing.. at Kyschool for the deaf.. my 2nd sonis in kindergaten.. he is learning add, and subtract in math classes and english and spelling.. iwonder why didnt me and my ex got that in past..and i askedmy best buddy whos a instructor aide there he works with my son.. he said that ky have a law called no child left behind i m not sure if it covers usa too but that is the reason why they are teachin math, spellin etc at early age..
 
In regards to the title of the thread "Learning Pace of Deaf vs. Hearing Kids", I think it may be misleading cuz it gave me the impression that it is about comparing the learning abilities of deaf children to the learning abilities of hearing kids. If that is the case, then the answer is really easy. Deaf kids are capable of learning at the same pace as hearing kids. Some can learn faster or some will be slower. As long as they dont have any congitive disabilities, their brains work just like hearing kids' brains at birth. The next 5 years will become critical for the deaf children's brain development depending on language accessibility.

I am not sure what is your intention of the title but do u mean u want research and statistics on how different education approaches impact the learning pace of the deaf children or deaf children's ability to learn as opposed to hearing kids?

I dont mean it to offend nor bash u but after reading different postings, I am starting to wonder what is it u are really looking for?

Thanks.
 
jessicacarlo said:
Hey I'm new, I have a deaf two year old daughter and like you I was trying to get statistics but I learn the hard way that tere's no accurate one the gov. for some reason never gives you the ones you should know but I know an organization that might provide you with info. Alliance for families with deaf children they go by affwdc.org. Are you from South Florida?
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Hi and welcome. Thanks for the info. I am from the midwest.
 
shel90 said:
In regards to the title of the thread "Learning Pace of Deaf vs. Hearing Kids", I think it may be misleading cuz it gave me the impression that it is about comparing the learning abilities of deaf children to the learning abilities of hearing kids. If that is the case, then the answer is really easy. Deaf kids are capable of learning at the same pace as hearing kids. Some can learn faster or some will be slower. As long as they dont have any congitive disabilities, their brains work just like hearing kids' brains at birth. The next 5 years will become critical for the deaf children's brain development depending on language accessibility.

I am not sure what is your intention of the title but do u mean u want research and statistics on how different education approaches impact the learning pace of the deaf children or deaf children's ability to learn as opposed to hearing kids?

I dont mean it to offend nor bash u but after reading different postings, I am starting to wonder what is it u are really looking for?

Thanks.
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Shel, Sorry for any misunderstanding. I am looking for statistics on exactly what the title of the thread indicates. The learning pace of Deaf vs. Hearing kids. To be more specific, what do the statistics show regarding the education level of Deaf kids vs. hearing kids that graduate from High School. Pace simply means how fast are they learning compared to hearing kids. I'm not talking about comparing kids that have other special needs beyond hearing loss. I also understand there are overacheivers and that sucess is dependant on teaching methods amongst many other things.

What I have gathered so far from the information provided, is that near half of the deaf kids graduating high school are at a 4th grade education level. To me, that indicates the learning pace of near half the deaf kids is only 1/3 as fast as hearing kids.

My objective for creating this thread is to find out if deaf kids are at a disadvantage in the educational system (for whatever reasons) when compared to hearing kids. From what I have seen it appears that nearly half are. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something or if there are statistics that prove otherwise.
 
rockdrummer said:
Shel, Sorry for any misunderstanding. I am looking for statistics on exactly what the title of the thread indicates. The learning pace of Deaf vs. Hearing kids. To be more specific, what do the statistics show regarding the education level of Deaf kids vs. hearing kids that graduate from High School. Pace simply means how fast are they learning compared to hearing kids. I'm not talking about comparing kids that have other special needs beyond hearing loss. I also understand there are overacheivers and that sucess is dependant on teaching methods amongst many other things.

What I have gathered so far from the information provided, is that near half of the deaf kids graduating high school are at a 4th grade education level. To me, that indicates the learning pace of near half the deaf kids is only 1/3 as fast as hearing kids.

My objective for creating this thread is to find out if deaf kids are at a disadvantage in the educational system (for whatever reasons) when compared to hearing kids. From what I have seen it appears that nearly half are. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something or if there are statistics that prove otherwise.
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Ok thanks for clarifying.

Yea, I agree about the learning pace of deaf kids is only 1/3 as fast as hearing kids and now the next thing is to find the source of the problem. Is it lack of language access during the first 5 years, oral-only approach, ASL-only approach, bi-bi approach, the curriculm not meeting the learning needs of deaf children (I have one problem with the public school's language arts curriculm that we adopted...tooo many lessons on phonetics or decoding), quality of teachers at the school, quality of parental involvement, the child's abilitiy to hear, or it could be ALLL of these variables that can have a postiive or negative impact on the learning pace?
 
rockdrummer said:
Shel, Sorry for any misunderstanding. I am looking for statistics on exactly what the title of the thread indicates. The learning pace of Deaf vs. Hearing kids. To be more specific, what do the statistics show regarding the education level of Deaf kids vs. hearing kids that graduate from High School. Pace simply means how fast are they learning compared to hearing kids. I'm not talking about comparing kids that have other special needs beyond hearing loss. I also understand there are overacheivers and that sucess is dependant on teaching methods amongst many other things.

What I have gathered so far from the information provided, is that near half of the deaf kids graduating high school are at a 4th grade education level. To me, that indicates the learning pace of near half the deaf kids is only 1/3 as fast as hearing kids.

My objective for creating this thread is to find out if deaf kids are at a disadvantage in the educational system (for whatever reasons) when compared to hearing kids. From what I have seen it appears that nearly half are. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something or if there are statistics that prove otherwise.
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Deaf kids are definately at a disadvantage, but it has more to do with methodolgy and curriculum than it does with learning pace. Also, the statistics that provide you with informationthat deaf kids are at a 4th grade level are taken from tests that are standardized for hearing children and threfore do not accurately reflect the knowledge that deaf children do possess. If a test question is formated in a way that does not prmit comprehension of what is being asked, then the deaf child cannot possibly answer the question in a way that truly reflects their knowledge. These tests are all very verbally based, not language based, and testing procedures recommended for deaf students are not followed more often than they are followed.

Many standardized tests have been revised for use with the deaf population, and when these tests are used, and proper testing procedure is followed, quite different results are obtained. The problems we see in educating deaf students lies more with teaching practices and innacurrate expectations than it does with the actual capabilities of the deaf student.
 
shel90 said:
Ok thanks for clarifying.

Yea, I agree about the learning pace of deaf kids is only 1/3 as fast as hearing kids and now the next thing is to find the source of the problem. Is it lack of language access during the first 5 years, oral-only approach, ASL-only approach, bi-bi approach, the curriculm not meeting the learning needs of deaf children (I have one problem with the public school's language arts curriculm that we adopted...tooo many lessons on phonetics or decoding), quality of teachers at the school, quality of parental involvement, the child's abilitiy to hear, or it could be ALLL of these variables that can have a postiive or negative impact on the learning pace?
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As you did, shel, I interpreted the pace of learning to mean the quickness or slowness with which a child can grasp the information that is presented--their innate cognitive and developmental abilities. I also agree with you that the problems lie in the variable that you have mentioned, not with the kids themselves. If you present material to any child in a way that prevents them from learning, you create a failure in education.
 
jillio said:
Deaf kids are definately at a disadvantage, but it has more to do with methodolgy and curriculum than it does with learning pace. Also, the statistics that provide you with informationthat deaf kids are at a 4th grade level are taken from tests that are standardized for hearing children and threfore do not accurately reflect the knowledge that deaf children do possess. If a test question is formated in a way that does not prmit comprehension of what is being asked, then the deaf child cannot possibly answer the question in a way that truly reflects their knowledge. These tests are all very verbally based, not language based, and testing procedures recommended for deaf students are not followed more often than they are followed.

Many standardized tests have been revised for use with the deaf population, and when these tests are used, and proper testing procedure is followed, quite different results are obtained. The problems we see in educating deaf students lies more with teaching practices and innacurrate expectations than it does with the actual capabilities of the deaf student.
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:gpost:
Tell me about it about those standardized tests!!!!
 
jillio said:
Deaf kids are definately at a disadvantage, but it has more to do with methodolgy and curriculum than it does with learning pace. Also, the statistics that provide you with informationthat deaf kids are at a 4th grade level are taken from tests that are standardized for hearing children and threfore do not accurately reflect the knowledge that deaf children do possess. If a test question is formated in a way that does not prmit comprehension of what is being asked, then the deaf child cannot possibly answer the question in a way that truly reflects their knowledge. These tests are all very verbally based, not language based, and testing procedures recommended for deaf students are not followed more often than they are followed.

Many standardized tests have been revised for use with the deaf population, and when these tests are used, and proper testing procedure is followed, quite different results are obtained. The problems we see in educating deaf students lies more with teaching practices and innacurrate expectations than it does with the actual capabilities of the deaf student.
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I can agree with what you are saying. Since deafness is nothing new, why is this still a problem in this day and age? How do you go about fixing it? Also one of the questions I asked earlier was about the testing standards. Should they be the same for deaf and hearing kids?
 
jillio said:
As you did, shel, I interpreted the pace of learning to mean the quickness or slowness with which a child can grasp the information that is presented--their innate cognitive and developmental abilities. I also agree with you that the problems lie in the variable that you have mentioned, not with the kids themselves. If you present material to any child in a way that prevents them from learning, you create a failure in education.
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The question is about the speed at which they learn. OK, assuming we are talking about an all deaf school. Are the testing standards the same. As I understand it they are. If that is part of the problem, what needs to be done to fix it?
 
rockdrummer said:
I can agree with what you are saying. Since deafness is nothing new, why is this still a problem in this day and age? How do you go about fixing it? Also one of the questions I asked earlier was about the testing standards. Should they be the same for deaf and hearing kids?
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The problem is people keep coming up with different theories or approaches on how to teach deaf children.
 
rockdrummer said:
I can agree with what you are saying. Since deafness is nothing new, why is this still a problem in this day and age? How do you go about fixing it? Also one of the questions I asked earlier was about the testing standards. Should they be the same for deaf and hearing kids?
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I definately think that there should be different testing procedures for deaf kids. Any test designed for hearing participants will be negatively biased against deaf individuals because the tests designed for hearing are very verbally based.

It is still a problem, in my opinion, because the policy makers are hearing. When the Deaf population is consulted, the methods they suggest are extremely effective. Unfortunately, our educational system consists of hearing educators who want to tell the Deaf what they need, rather than listening to what they say they need. The perspective is skewed from a hearing point of view. Research has already shown that when ASL is used to teach English skill, literacy rates improve. Deaf of Deaf (native signers) have the highest literacy rates overall because of consistent early language input, and the use of ASL to teach English as a second language. Despite all of the research that points to the most viable solutions, hearing policy makers continue to insist that hearing educators know more about what deaf students need than the Deaf themselvves do.
 
rockdrummer said:
The question is about the speed at which they learn. OK, assuming we are talking about an all deaf school. Are the testing standards the same. As I understand it they are. If that is part of the problem, what needs to be done to fix it?
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Generally, they are the same if you are talking about proficiency tests, and the reason is that they are state mandated and controlled. Most educators at deaf schools don't put a whole lot of faith in the stats produced by these tests because they are so aware of the bias (both cultural and linguistic) and realize fully that they do not reflect the true performance of these students.
 
Wasn't finished, I guess:giggle: To fix it: ADVOCATE, ADVOCATE, ADVOCATE
 
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