Learned a fact from my grandpa about asl, is this true?

[CSign]

Followering your logic, would that also make ASL a temporary band-aid?
The way I see it is that, at least in America, children have to be taught to read and write English, A Spanish child from Mexico has to, if the child wants to stay in America. So too would a deaf child and ASL does nothing to help teach a child to read and write English. Logic tells us the ASL can not be written and, therefore, can not be read.[/QUOTE]

That is a valid and accurate point.

 

[Jiro]

That is a valid and accurate point.

actually no because if that's the case...... they why is it that people can speak English but cannot read English?

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

[Frisky Feline]

Followering your logic, would that also make ASL a temporary band-aid?
The way I see it is that, at least in America, children have to be taught to read and write English, A Spanish child from Mexico has to, if the child wants to stay in America. So too would a deaf child and ASL does nothing to help teach a child to read and write English. Logic tells us the ASL can not be written and, therefore, can not be read.

I disagree.

At first I was taught with SEE with boring teachers for years. Sadly, I had a hard time understanding how to read the book. I often fell asleep or had a daydream when teachers sign in SEE in the classroom. One day, Teacher asked someone else who was an "intern" teacher who wanted to become a Deaf teacher. She signed in ASL reading the book. Finally I literally understood and know how, what where to read the book by ASL. Also, I did not have a daydream when it comes to ASL. I suggest you to be silent and stop making up about ASL. Alright?

 

[rolling7]

actually no because if that's the case...... they why is it that people can speak English but cannot read English?

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmm?

The normal process of any normal child is to first learn to speak the "mother tongue." Then comes reading and writimg. However, the normal child does not need an educational teaching to learn to speak, that child just picks it up over the first 2 or 3 years. If deaf culture has changed to were it is reqyired that a deaf child be taught not only ASL but also to read and write English and hopefully to speak English as best as possible, that is news to me. Nevertheless, a agree with you that a child must be taught both, ASL and English.

 

[Frisky Feline]

The normal process of any normal child is to first learn to speak the "mother tongue." Then comes reading and writimg. However, the normal child does not need an educational teaching to learn to speak, that child just picks it up over the first 2 or 3 years. If deaf culture has changed to were it is reqyired that a deaf child be taught not only ASL but also to read and write English and hopefully to speak English as best as possible, that is news to me. Nevertheless, a agree with you that a child must be taught both, ASL and English.

Back in my time, there were a lot of SEE approach or total communicaiton appraoch were at Deaf schools in the east coast by HEARING teachers that hurts. ouchie.

 

[rolling7]

Back in my time, there were a lot of SEE approach or total communicaiton appraoch were at Deaf schools in the east coast by HEARING teachers that hurts. ouchie.

I agree about "back in those days". Today, IMO, deaf children should not be taught SEE nor TC. Back in the days when deaf schools changed over to ASL, they neglected English reading and writing. I had a ton of co-workers that grad form TSD (Texas Institute for the Deaf/Austin) who coulod neither read nor write English. Had it not been for the Presidential Program (Nixon)
they would not have been hired by U.S.P.S. because they would have never, ever passed the Civil Service Exam. I did, in order to become a 204B (acting supervisor).

 

[Frisky Feline]

I saw some small kids use ASL and i can see that they talk to each other that makes sense. So they would have no problem by picking up english to write very well.

 

[Reba]

Followering your logic, would that also make ASL a temporary band-aid?
The way I see it is that, at least in America, children have to be taught to read and write English, A Spanish child from Mexico has to, if the child wants to stay in America. So too would a deaf child and ASL does nothing to help teach a child to read and write English. Logic tells us the ASL can not be written and, therefore, can not be read.

Children who grow up with other languages attain literacy in English all the time. That includes children who grow up with languages that have no English cognates, or even the same alphabet. The child who grew up with Korean, or Polish, or Hindi has to start from scratch with English. That doesn't make their native languages linguistic "band-aids."

ASL does help a child develop language skills that can be transferred to learning English. Thru ASL, a child learns that objects have names, actions have names, emotions have names, etc. They learn that every language has rules of use.

 

[rolling7]

Children who grow up with other languages attain literacy in English all the time. That includes children who grow up with languages that have no English cognates, or even the same alphabet. The child who grew up with Korean, or Polish, or Hindi has to start from scratch with English. That doesn't make their native languages linguistic "band-aids."

ASL does help a child develop language skills that can be transferred to learning English. Thru ASL, a child learns that objects have names, actions have names, emotions have names, etc. They learn that every language has rules of use.

I disagree. The reason being that ASL can not be written and, therefore, read as all other native languages can. Reading is reading and writing is writing, from one language to another with the exception of ASL.

 

[CSign]

I disagree. The reason being that ASL can not be written and, therefore, read as all other native languages can. Reading is reading and writing is writing, from one language to another with the exception of ASL.

I agree with you. Fluency in any language is good, and can put a person in a position to learn a second language. However, there is no getting around the fact that ASL does not teach a child or person how to read and write in English.

 

[Jiro]

I agree with you. Fluency in any language is good, and can put a person in a position to learn a second language. However, there is no getting around the fact that ASL does not teach a child or person how to read and write in English.

I disagree. *The reason being that ASL can not be written and, therefore, read as all other native languages can. *Reading is reading and writing is writing, from one language to another with the exception of ASL.

incorrect. educators, psychologists, linguists would disagree with you.*

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/life-bilingual/201010/myths-about-bilingualism-0

I have had the chance to live and work for extended periods of time in at least three countries, the United States, Switzerland and France, and as a researcher on bilingualism, it has allowed me to learn a lot about my topic of interest.

I have found that people in these countries share many misconceptions about bilingualism and bilinguals but that they also have very country-specific attitudes towards them.

Among shared misunderstandings, one is that bilingualism is a rare phenomenon. In fact, it has been estimated that more than half of the world's population is bilingual, that is uses two or more languages in everyday life.

Another common misconception is that bilinguals have equal knowledge of their languages. In fact, bilinguals know their languages to the level that they need them and many are dominant in one of them.

There are also the myths that real bilinguals do not have an accent in their different languages and that they are excellent all-around translators. This is far from being true. Having an accent or not does not make one more or less bilingual, and bilinguals often have difficulties translating specialized language.

As concerns children, many worries and misconceptions are also widespread. The first is that bilingualism will delay language acquisition in young children. This was a popular myth in the first part of the last century, but there is no research evidence to that effect. Their rate of language acquisition is the same as that of their monolingual counterparts.

There is also the fear that children raised bilingual will always mix their languages. In fact, they adapt to the situation they are in. When they interact in monolingual situations (e.g. with Grandma who doesn't speak their other language), they will respond monolingually; if they are with other bilinguals, then they may well code-switch.

Finally, there is the worry that bilingualism will affect negatively the cognitive development of bilingual children. Recent research appears to show the contrary; bilingual children do better than monolingual children in certain cognitive tasks.

Aside from these common misunderstandings, certain attitudes are specific to countries and areas of the world. In Europe, for example, bilingualism is seen favorably but people have very high standards for who should be considered bilingual. The latter should have perfect knowledge of their languages, have no accent in them, and even, in some countries, have grown up with their two (or more) languages. At that rate, very few people consider themselves bilingual.

Bilinguals do not have to meet such high standards in the United States, a country where bilingualism is very diverse, pairing English with Native American languages, older colonial languages, recent immigration languages, and so on. It has been estimated that more than 50 million inhabitants in the US live with two or more languages in their everyday lives.

In this blog I will evoke the many fascinating aspects that characterize bilinguals, both adults and children.

 

[Jiro]

Oregon's Deaf and Hard of Hearing Services ASL: A Distinct Cultural Language

Another misconception is that signs are a form of fingerspelling. Signs are separate and distinct from "Finger Spelling" which is a manual system in which a hand configuration is used to represent a letter of the alphabet. Although signers may finger spell in English term or name, the bulk of their signed communication is made up not of finger spelling but of signs, which are structured according to an entirely independent set of rules.

ASL is a combination of standard signs, initializing signs and finger spelling. Modifications of facial expressions sign movements and body positions provide adjectives and adverbs. Facial expressions in ASL is rule-governed and expresses not only emotion, but also specific grammatical features. Eye gaze, head shift and body shift is also rule-governed.

For many ASL users, ASL is their first language. English is their second, non-native language. ASL had no written form, which means that there are no newspapers, magazines, or books written in ASL. ASL can, however be translated into written English, and there are many books, magazines, videos and theater in the Deaf community. Although the average ASL user is fluent in written English. The average reading and writing level for many ASL users is between third and fifth grade. More and more ASL users are becoming fluent in written English, due to a new emphasis on bilingual-bicultural education.

In the last few years, ASL has gained respect and acknowledgment from linguists as a formal and sophisticated language. There has been a phenomenal increase in linguistic research on ASL in recent years, and as our knowledge base increases, language scientists are recognizing ASL as a unique language that is as precise, versatile and subtle, as any spoken language.

 

[Frisky Feline]

I agree with you. Fluency in any language is good, and can put a person in a position to learn a second language. However, there is no getting around the fact that ASL does not teach a child or person how to read and write in English.

I was taught with SEE in my earlier years and it was totally screwing up with my english. I was struggling to understand how to read and write when i used SEE. Until someone taught me with ASL, and I finally understand the concept so i can write better by reading the book better through the ASL. How did you know ASL didn't work when it comes to writing and reading? You don't use ASL therefore You were not there. I have and was there. I am telling you that SEE is my nightmare for a long time, Until ASL set me free. My english was really bad back in my time because of that SEE. So,I started with ASL and I have been slowly picking up English by reading and writing at my late age. It works better when I use ASL while I read and write in English.

So it shows that you know NOTHING about ASL. I am not the alone, and I have witness my friends who were in my classmates and they went through the same thing as I was.

 

[rolling7]

Oregon's Deaf and Hard of Hearing Services ASL: A Distinct Cultural Language

You can post a many links to sources a you wish but nothing beats real-life experience. I've socialized with the deaf community regularly on a weekly basic and see with my own eyes those who grew up strictly ASL can not read nor write.
A few post back, I agreed with you that a deaf child needs both ASL and English but the two are not mutually beneficial to each other because ASL/English would then become SEE.

 

[CSign]

Here is a brief overview of the history of sign language:

"It was in the sixteenth century that Geronimo Cardano, a physician of Padua, in northern Italy, proclaimed that deaf people could be taught to understand written combinations of symbols by associating them with the thing they represented. The first book on teaching sign language to deaf people that contained the manual alphabet was published in 1620 by Juan Pablo de Bonet.

In 1755 Abbe Charles Michel de L’Epee of Paris founded the first free school for deaf people. He taught that deaf people could develop communication with themselves and the hearing world through a system of conventional gestures, hand signs, and fingerspelling. He created and demonstrated a language of signs whereby each would be a symbol that suggested the concept desired.

The abbe was apparently a very creative person, and the way he developed his sign language system was by first recognizing, then learning the signs that were already being used by a group of deaf people in Paris, To this knowledge he added his own creativeness which resulted in a signed version of spoken French. He paved the way for deaf people to have a more standardized language of their own--one which would effectively bridge the gap between the hearing and nonhearing worlds.

Another prominent deaf educator of the same period (1778) was Samuel Heinicke of Leipzig, Germany. Heinicke did not use the manual method of communication but taught speech and speechreading. He established the first public school for deaf people that achieved government recognition. These two methods (manual and oral) were the forerunners of today's concept of total communication. Total communication espouses the use of all means of available communication, such as sign language, gesturing, fingerspelling, speechreading, speech, hearing aids, reading, writing, and pictures.

In America the Great Plains Indians developed a fairly extensive system of signing, but this was more for intertribal communication than for deaf people, and only vestiges of it remain today. However, it is interesting to note some similarities existing between Indian sign language and the present system.

America owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet, an energetic Congregational minister who became interested in helping his neighbor's young deaf daughter, Alice Cogswell. He traveled to Europe in 1815, when he was twenty-seven, to study methods of communicating with deaf people. While in England he met Abbe Roche Ambroise Sicard, who invited him to study at his school for deaf people in Paris. After several months Gallaudet returned to the United States with Laurent Clerc, a deaf sign language instructor from the Paris school.

In 1817 Gallaudet founded the nation's first school for deaf people, in Hartford, Connecticut, and Clerc became the United States' first deaf sign language teacher. Soon schools for deaf people began to appear in several states. Among them was the New York School for the Deaf, which opened its doors in 1818. In 1820 a school was opened in Pennsylvania, and a total of twenty-two schools had been established throughout the United States by the year 1863.

An important milestone in the history of education for deaf' people was the founding of Gallaudet College, in Washington, D.C. in 1864, which remains the only liberal arts college for deaf' people in the United States and the world.

Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet passed on his dream of a college for deaf people to his son, Edward Miner Gallaudet, who with the help of Amos Kendall made the dream a reality. Edward Miner Gallaudet became the first president of the new college.

Today we are fortunate to have one of the most complete and expressive sign language systems of any country in the world. We owe much to the French sign system, from which many of our present-day signs, though modified, have been derived."

American Sign Language History

 

[rolling7]

I was taught with SEE in my earlier years and it was totally screwing up with my english. I was struggling to understand how to read and write when i used SEE. Until someone taught me with ASL, and I finally understand the concept so i can write better by reading the book better through the ASL. How did you know ASL didn't work when it comes to writing and reading? You don't use ASL therefore You were not there. I have and was there. I am telling you that SEE is my nightmare for a long time, Until ASL set me free. My english was really bad back in my time because of that SEE. So,I started with ASL and I have been slowly picking up English by reading and writing at my late age. It works better when I use ASL while I read and write in English.

So it shows that you know NOTHING about ASL. I am not the alone, and I have witness my friends who were in my classmates and they went through the same thing as I was.

The clue here is: "at my late age". It is the child that needs an early education in both ASL and reading and writing English.

 

[CSign]

The clue here is: "at my late age". It is the child that needs an early education in both ASL and reading and writing English.

I am in agreement with you... If a child is given proper exposure to ASL early on, and also has appropriate language models within the educational setting (and/or at home) who use SEE properly, they will be at an advantage.

When SEE is used as intended, it allows for that face to face interaction which is necessary for building fluency in any language.

Unfortunately, some students are at times exposed to teachers who are not fluent language models which is not beneficial for them. There are some teachers who say they are using SEE, when in fact they are using PSE. That can prove to be detrimental and confusing to some students.

PSE is not an appropriate language model for students with emerging language skills because it does not represent any one language in its entirety. PSE would be comparable to "Spanglish" as some might say. I think it's fine for adults to use it in certain situations, but never with a child.

 

[Frisky Feline]

SEE screwed up is all I can say.


ASL and Reading /Writing are the best thing to do for Kids.

 

[Reba]

I disagree. The reason being that ASL can not be written and, therefore, read as all other native languages can. Reading is reading and writing is writing, from one language to another with the exception of ASL.

You do know that there are many, many spoken languages that have no written form? There are also other spoken languages who have only recently developed written forms. Having a written form of a language is not "proof" that they are real languages.

Suppose someone moves to America from a region where there was no written language; are you saying that they could never learn to read and write English?

Suppose someone moves to America from a country that does have a written language but that person was illiterate in the native language; are you saying that they could never learn to read and write English?

Finally, we are all illiterate until we learn how to read for the first time. That includes deaf and hearing people. No one is born with a book in one hand, and pen and paper in the other.

BTW, ASL does have a permanent, recordable, and sharable version of its language, and that is the video recording.

 

[CSign]

You do know that there are many, many spoken languages that have no written form? There are also other spoken languages who have only recently developed written forms. Having a written form of a language is not "proof" that they are real languages.

I didn't perceive Rolling's post as saying that ASL is not a real language. What I got from it was that since ASL doesn't have a written form (and that it is it's own unique language), that it isn't conducive to teaching students how to read or write in English. That is a logical conclusion to come to, as ASL is not English.

Living in the United States, it is critical that all citizens attain fluency in English. On that same note, for individuals who are deaf here in the states, ASL is equally important because it is the only entirely accessible language.