ladies and gentlemens I need your help!!

Marko IIT said:
Ok, here we are talking about music experience. I know many hearing people who do not enjoy music and that is ok. I was referring to the people which has an interest in this. I am driven by the fact that music means so much to hearing people so I would like to help people who are interesting in the same thing.

I know that you are enjoying in many different things. I will enjoy learning ASL and lips reading.. OOO, believe me I will. I am gonna use it.
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Did you know that some deaf folks don't listen to music?
Because, if you think about it, they're deaf. The pitches don't get heard, nor do they have an interest in wearing an assistive device.

Some who have some residual hearing or use a device may listen to music. Others won't. Different strokes for different folks. You can't be too sure everyone can enjoy the same things that are made for hearing people to enjoy.
 
Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Honestly MarkoIIT - I think you're wasting your time and money on this entire "project".

If this was something important to us we would have already created a "music interpretation system" for ourselves.

It really sounds like you need to spend some time learning about hoh,deaf and more importantly Deaf Culture. Then consider ASKING what type of technologies we are wanting, rather than trying to sell us on something we don't want.
 
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naisho said:
Did you know that some deaf folks don't listen to music?
Because, if you think about it, they're deaf. The pitches don't get heard, nor do they have an interest in wearing an assistive device.

Some who have some residual hearing or use a device may listen to music. Others won't. Different strokes for different folks. You can't be too sure everyone can enjoy the same things that are made for hearing people to enjoy.
Click to expand...

Did you know that some deaf folks don't listen to music? YES. I ALSO KNOW THAT SOME DEAF PEOPLE DO. THEY ARE TRYING TO EXPERIENCE MUSIC, THEY SPEND HOURS AND HOURS READING NOTES AND PRACTISING. WE CALL THEM HEROS.
You can't be too sure everyone can enjoy the same things that are made for hearing people to enjoy. AGAIN, I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE DEAF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT TO SENSE MUSIC, BUT I AM SURE THAT SOME WOULD LIKE.

Please, if someone is not interested in music, do not attack my opinion that some people would like to do it.

The pitches don't get heard, nor do they have an interest in wearing an assistive device. PITCHES GET ILLUSTRATED. Assistive devices would be ipad, laptop, cell.. Again, I share your opinion that someone don't want these devices, but some already use these devices every day for different purposes.

So, the conclusion is EVERYTHING is the point of interest. I'm talking with the people which share the same PIO as I do.
 
Marko IIT said:
Did you know that some deaf folks don't listen to music? YES. I ALSO KNOW THAT SOME DEAF PEOPLE DO. THEY ARE TRYING TO EXPERIENCE MUSIC, THEY SPEND HOURS AND HOURS READING NOTES AND PRACTISING. WE CALL THEM HEROS.
You can't be too sure everyone can enjoy the same things that are made for hearing people to enjoy. AGAIN, I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE DEAF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT TO SENSE MUSIC, BUT I AM SURE THAT SOME WOULD LIKE.

Please, if someone is not interested in music, do not attack my opinion that some people would like to do it.

The pitches don't get heard, nor do they have an interest in wearing an assistive device. PITCHES GET ILLUSTRATED. Assistive devices would be ipad, laptop, cell.. Again, I share your opinion that someone don't want these devices, but some already use these devices every day for different purposes.

So, the conclusion is EVERYTHING is the point of interest. I'm talking with the people which share the same PIO as I do.
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The bolded show your audist thinking clearly.

:barf: ad infinitum
 
Anij said:
Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Honestly MarkoIIT - I think you're wasting your time and money on this entire "project".

If this was something important to us we would have already created a "music interpretation system" for ourselves.

It really sounds like you need to spend some time learning about hoh,deaf and more importantly Deaf Culture. Then consider ASKING what type of technologies we are wanting, rather than trying to sell us on something we don't want.
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OK, this is why I came here initially. ANAJ, you explained that to me. I am ok with it. So, you do not want it and that is ok. This was my question.
I would like to say thank you for being nice and honest to me.
 
Bottesini said:
The bolded show your audist thinking clearly.

:barf: ad infinitum
Click to expand...

yes, I am proud of being open-minded person. You are fencing your self, not me. I do not treat you as inferior person, I treated you as a different in the point of interest. Nothing else. My audits' thinking is my will to create something helpful, not judge.
 
Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Marko - I'm guessing you don't know what audist means?



An "Audist" is a hearing (and rarely hoh or deaf) person who has a paternal, demeaning attitude towards Deaf people. Much akin to a racist is someone who thinks other races are "less".
 
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Ok, I didn't know that. Still, I can believe that this is happening. I am trying to create something helpful for us ( as a whole) and you people are saying that I am bad person with attitude? I know who I am and what I think about you. I don't feel sorry, I just tried to connect us using music. I realized that you do not want that. So, I guess that you have a reason for that. It is nice that you support each other even when you know that that is wrong. I was saying that we are the same world with the different PIO, but you accused me of being rude. I respect your opinion about the project, but do not respect the way of protecting "the tribe." For me you are the part of the world and these applications for me is that same as the games which I created for other people. Just the way to enjoy, free of charge, with positive attitude.
 
Hey Marko,

Can you be a little more specific about your project? From what I read, what you are describing may already done through youtube with folks signing songs. Granted, it is not as technical to include fancy lights or sound adjustments. For me personally, adding lights to represent pitches and watching someone sign isn't that interesting.

I am not trying to be discouraging and I am not saying that no one would enjoy your project but it might help us if you were more specific.

I can't speak for others on the site, but I always thought it would be interesting to put tactile experiences in theatre so it did not require language at all. Have a silent film and sprinkle rain on us (carefully since our electronics tend to be expensive), shake the seats in a thunderstorm and so forth.

cheers! Good luck with your projects.
 
paperclip said:
Hey Marko,

Can you be a little more specific about your project? From what I read, what you are describing may already done through youtube with folks signing songs. Granted, it is not as technical to include fancy lights or sound adjustments. For me personally, adding lights to represent pitches and watching someone sign isn't that interesting.

I am not trying to be discouraging and I am not saying that no one would enjoy your project but it might help us if you were more specific.

I can't speak for others on the site, but I always thought it would be interesting to put tactile experiences in theatre so it did not require language at all. Have a silent film and sprinkle rain on us (carefully since our electronics tend to be expensive), shake the seats in a thunderstorm and so forth.


.
Click to expand...
uh. Thank you for understanding. Please forget other posts and form your opinion for your self about me and my project.

you are right about you tube, I saw the songs with sign language interpretation and that is really nice. From the comments and the number of visits, I can say that it is pretty successful idea.

on the other hand, the project which we are working on should offer more types of representation, chance to create your own music and tutorials how to understand these signs and rules of music. So, for example, you play a song on your ipad, and the program offers you the appropriate vibration, visualization of the leading instrument ( tone pitch), lyrics, the instruments which currently are active, avatar with facial expressions and dancing movies based on the beat..we can add sign language representation and basically anything which can help to better understand the music. So, as you said, this avatar function, can be compared to you tubes songs in ASL, but the rest is different. The option of entering music into device was planned through internet, usb, cd, and through the microphone. So, If you are at a concert, you can turn the app and see all those signs. Reading these signs will help you understanding the music around you. The idea is that people can become very fluent in interpreting those signs, so that they can create own music, share in through the radio, facebook.. and get the feedback on it. We believe that these sounds can be very unique and special.

For what I heard in this forum, deaf people do not find these representations very significant. Some even do not want to sense music. I am not concern about the second one, but I am convinced that all these representations may not be enough for deaf to enjoy. I UNDERSTAND and that is the part which needs to be researched.

The effects which you like already exists in theatres. Most of the time they are called 4d,5d,6d :)) please visit Shredd Aquarium in Chicago. I really enjoyed the rain on me, snake jumps from the chair in front of me, the smell and different simulations. :)
 
Marko: Some actual info for you re Cochlear Implants. Sunnybrook/Toronto since 1984 to 2011 have "tested" 3000 referred patients of which only 950 were Implanted. ( I was one) Further only 18 were unable to benefit from their Implant.
Not every DEAF or Profound Hearing Loss person can benefit from a Cochlear Implant for a variety of medical reasons.

Also noted above-not every DEAF person wants to be considered-their choice.

Further info Google.

What the future of Cochlear Implants will be on the "Deaf community" unknown Consider the past-how many persons with Implants don't learn ASL et al?

Perhaps a review of various comments to your original question will indicate hardly a "monolithic entity called the "Deaf/deaf/DEAF".

More discussion in Sociology.
 
Marko IIT said:
uh. Thank you for understanding. Please forget other posts and form your opinion for your self about me and my project.

you are right about you tube, I saw the songs with sign language interpretation and that is really nice. From the comments and the number of visits, I can say that it is pretty successful idea.

on the other hand, the project which we are working on should offer more types of representation, chance to create your own music and tutorials how to understand these signs and rules of music. So, for example, you play a song on your ipad, and the program offers you the appropriate vibration, visualization of the leading instrument ( tone pitch), lyrics, the instruments which currently are active, avatar with facial expressions and dancing movies based on the beat..we can add sign language representation and basically anything which can help to better understand the music. So, as you said, this avatar function, can be compared to you tubes songs in ASL, but the rest is different. The option of entering music into device was planned through internet, usb, cd, and through the microphone. So, If you are at a concert, you can turn the app and see all those signs. Reading these signs will help you understanding the music around you. The idea is that people can become very fluent in interpreting those signs, so that they can create own music, share in through the radio, facebook.. and get the feedback on it. We believe that these sounds can be very unique and special.

For what I heard in this forum, deaf people do not find these representations very significant. Some even do not want to sense music. I am not concern about the second one, but I am convinced that all these representations may not be enough for deaf to enjoy. I UNDERSTAND and that is the part which needs to be researched.

The effects which you like already exists in theatres. Most of the time they are called 4d,5d,6d :)) please visit Shredd Aquarium in Chicago. I really enjoyed the rain on me, snake jumps from the chair in front of me, the smell and different simulations. :)
Click to expand...

Just to follow up. This might not be relevant, but I just wanted to point that the ASL videos on you tube that have high post counts are not necessarily watched by d/Deaf. The majority of those are viewed by hearing people like ASL students. Some of us like them, some of us don't.

You talked about creating music. Can you clarify? I am not sure how I understand how you hope to help us create music by means other than using a musical instrument. What makes you think it would be worthy to be on the radio if lights/images/signing was part of this program?

thanks for answering my questions!
 
DRPHIL: Thank you for giving me deeper insight about CI. I am glad that it worked for you.
Paperclip: Thank you for offering your respond and asking questions.

you will be able to create your own music using "create" mode in the app. Imagine this: First you read our tutorials about music which will contain the basic explanations about music instruments, scales, rhythm and melody ( the hardest part). So, tutorials will tell you that first you have to choose the beat for your song. Then you will skim through the list of offered rhythms and as you check them, you will fell the vibrations of that rhythm, and the avatar who will dance according to that beat( this should give you a sense is it song fast, slow, what kind of dancing, etc.
After that, since the beat is determined by drums, bass guitar, guitar. You can choose the variations of every of these instruments. These variations are just played tones in different manner( which will follow your accord every time), but will work for your already chosen rhythm in the same music scale, ex. D flat.

After this set up, you will chose your leading instrument. Before you seat to compose I guess that you had lyrics, or this can be instrumental. It is up to you. For this occasion, let say that we are creating instrumental. After you chose your leading instrument( let say piano because piano can simulate almost any other instrument), you will see the empty visualization, note lines, pitch number in db, level meter which will give you the colors for your notes and of course the piano keyboard to input sounds. Since you are in D scale, you will see what tones which are allowed to play in that scale( this is the part of musical theory). By alternating these allowed tones, you will be able to create your melody sounds, integrated into a fully functional rhythm. At any time you can add, change variations, choose intensity, change instrument sound.. Visualization will show you the smoothness of your melody. Over all, the representation will be very interesting to watch. So, you finish it. Upload, send to your friend and depending on the feedback, you will decide do you want to post it in internet radio station which is a part of our idea.

As time passes, you will use more advanced tools for creating your music, and you will master these sign representations. After that, you will be able to make comments on different songs by watching these representations. So, the part " music experience" is there when you are using some portable device ( I already provided the list of these devices) with your hearing or deaf friends to comment music.

So, you would be able to create song for some special occasions and for different audience.

Please, ask if you have any questions. I would like to hear your opinion. I know that you will be honest and I am ready to accept everything.
 
Marko: In my case the actual cost of my Implant, surgeon fees, hospital care, audi services. before and after the operation was CDN $55,000.00 in 2007.

As I was approved by the Cochlear Implant group-Sunnybrook/Toronto the entire cost was "picked up" by Ontario Health Insurance Plan-OHIP. What the situation is-in other countries/states- re: "pick up costs" etc-unknown by me. Initially the insurance covers for 3 years. One must pay yourself for whatever choice one does re: insurance/ repair as required etc.
 
drphil said:
Marko: In my case the actual cost of my Implant, surgeon fees, hospital care, audi services. before and after the operation was CDN $55,000.00 in 2007.

As I was approved by the Cochlear Implant group-Sunnybrook/Toronto the entire cost was "picked up" by Ontario Health Insurance Plan-OHIP. What the situation is-in other countries/states- re: "pick up costs" etc-unknown by me. Initially the insurance covers for 3 years. One must pay yourself for whatever choice one does re: insurance/ repair as required etc.
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Well, that is a big money, but I think that if it works, then this is nothing.
Can you answering me this? I know that this is not the topic in which I am interested but just to clarify, people do not want CI because the procedure is expensive, dangerous, possible unsuccessful .. and WHAT ELSE?

also, can you tell me something about your progress since the implementation?
 
Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Marko - can you tell me what your background is in music? Do you have a Music degree or other formal training?

The reason I ask is because it you seem to be overlooking the point that Music theory is almost exclusively teachable using non-aural methods (so much so that theory exams are written, not peformed).

In order to compose - you need to understand concepts of major,minor, chord progression, the Circle of fifths, modes etc - all of which deaf people can learn by simply reading music theory books etc.

The idea of representing the complex subtly of music in a non-aural mode ...isn't practical.

If you really want to work on something we'd appreciate and has wide MM applications - work on improving multipe voice speech recognition ... Systems that would allow any speaker's voice to be 99% accurately displayed in text form on any device. THAT is something worth spending time and money on.
 
Hi again Marko. 1) Why some DEAF persons don't want an Implant-even if deemed suitable?From reading comments here- don't seem to think "hearing" would be an "improvement in their lives" in comparison to using ASL et al. One's decision. Presumably subscribe to the "cultural theory of deafness".

2) I was fortunate-thanks in part to the many classes at Canadian Hearing Society/Toronto dealing/coping with your Hearing loss. Everything just kicked over eg SpeechReading .trying to be "assertive" and don't bluff-if not understanding something-spoken. I went to a Singles dance 3 days after Implantation-weird sounds to say the least. Mapping the next day corrected that. I started hearing right away. Didn't have headaches etc. From persons who knew before to after: a huge improvement in understanding them-now. A funny aside;kept thinking someone was following me: just me picking my own footsteps!

I followed the audi advice-keep your Implant on-all the time to help your brain "get used to the new sound". Still follow that advice- on- after waking up, disconnected when swimming and finally off when going to bed-battery recharges- over night. I have rechargeable-3 being recharged all the time. If going out after supper switch to a fresh battery in order not to run out unexpectedly. Don't carry a spare at the present time. This is almost 5 years experience.

It exceeded my expectations.

Again- my experiences may not be replicated by others. I was 70 when all this happened and in good health.

Some thoughts/experiences with my Cochlear Implant.
 
ANAJ i finished musical school in Europe( college degree). I am working as a musician for over 16 years and I can proudly say, successfully! my family counts many musicians and I think that I am able to understand and teach music. Also, I was teaching singing in elementary music school.

Thank you for your advice about voice recognition software.

DRPhil, I begin to understand some things which I even can't say here because someone will call me audits again. Thank you for your information about CI, now I know more about it.
 
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