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posts from hell

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I met four people that were raised oral, and now are fluent in ASL and never use their "oral skills".

I wonder why...
 
posts from hell said:
I met four people that were raised oral, and now are fluent in ASL and never use their "oral skills".

I wonder why...
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Where else would unhappy oral deaf people go? Deaf events, of course! Is that where you met them?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Where else would unhappy oral deaf people go? Deaf events, of course! Is that where you met them?
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They were happy, for the record. Oh and they say they were much more "free" when they got to use ASL..

:dunno:

Before I forget... I met them in various settings, but most were in a workshop not deaf event.
 
posts from hell said:
They were happy, for the record. Oh and they say they were much more "free" when they got to use ASL..

:dunno:

Before I forget... I met them in various settings, but most were in a workshop not deaf event.
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Unhappy with the oral status, not necessarily unhappy with their lives. Workshop? Was it connected to ASL?

Also, was it recent change for them? I find this "switch" fascinating. When I became more involved in the deaf community (along with learning ASL), it was fun, enlightening, and very educational. I learned so many things and experienced new things. However, I (and a few other oral people) did not have an extreme reaction like others have. Some became voice off, some become heavily involved with the deaf community, some started hanging out with mostly deaf people, etc. So I like to hear the varied stories about this "switch" that comes with learning ASL/being involved with the deaf community.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Unhappy with the oral status, not necessarily unhappy with their lives. Workshop? Was it connected to ASL?

Also, was it recent change for them? I find this "switch" fascinating. When I became more involved in the deaf community (along with learning ASL), it was fun, enlightening, and very educational. I learned so many things and experienced new things. However, I (and a few other oral people) did not have an extreme reaction like others have. Some became voice off, some become heavily involved with the deaf community, some started hanging out with mostly deaf people, etc. So I like to hear the varied stories about this "switch" that comes with learning ASL/being involved with the deaf community.
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Why are you assuming things? They were perfectly happy...

Cant say too much about the workshop...

I'll say this about the switch over to ASL - it depends on the person. If one has any resistance and looks down on ASL negatively even one bit... It will be much much harder for that person to take part of socials that uses ASL because the others can see right through them.
 
posts from hell said:
Why are you assuming things? They were perfectly happy...

Cant say too much about the workshop...

I'll say this about the switch over to ASL - it depends on the person. If one has any resistance and looks down on ASL negatively even one bit... It will be much much harder for that person to take part of socials that uses ASL because the others can see right through them.
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You asked why, so I tried to answer. Sometimes one has to make assumptions to create answers.

I totally admit I made an assumption that they were not satisfied with their oral status. But, hey, if you said (and not assumed) that they were perfectly happy with being oral (at least before they found ASL), then, okay, I believe you.

Do you believe that they are still happy with being oral or is this something that was changed upon finding ASL?

Also, do you believe there are deaf people who take the time and effort to learn enough ASL to hold conversations with other people within a deaf event can still look down on ASL negatively? If so, why do they even bother?
 
Daredevel7 said:
You asked why, so I tried to answer. Sometimes one has to make assumptions to create answers.

I totally admit I made an assumption that they were not satisfied with their oral status. But, hey, if you said (and not assumed) that they were perfectly happy with being oral (at least before they found ASL), then, okay, I believe you.

Do you believe that they are still happy with being oral or is this something that was changed upon finding ASL?

Also, do you believe there are deaf people who take the time and effort to learn enough ASL to hold conversations with other people within a deaf event can still look down on ASL negatively? If so, why do they even bother?
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No idea on how happy they were with being oral.. It was interesting, one of them has a deaf family, all oral - she was like.. fffuuuuu and learned sign language at school on her own.

There will always be people who look down on ASL negatively. There is one guy here in particular..... my god. He is involved in deaf politics and all, very strong. But he uses SEE all the times. It's morbidly hard to understand him.

There also are people that will stick around to "be around people" but dont exactly fit in. Usually because they dont know their identity..
 
posts from hell said:
No idea on how happy they were with being oral.. It was interesting, one of them has a deaf family, all oral - she was like.. fffuuuuu and learned sign language at school on her own.

There will always be people who look down on ASL negatively. There is one guy here in particular..... my god. He is involved in deaf politics and all, very strong. But he uses SEE all the times. It's morbidly hard to understand him.

There also are people that will stick around to "be around people" but dont exactly fit in. Usually because they dont know their identity..
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I can see why some people use SEE, especially when it comes to English education and for interpreters. Maybe one feels more comfortable using SEE to ensure that the interpreter conveys EXACTLY what the person is trying to say. However, to use SEE, repeatedly, in a conversation mode with other ASL users, it seems kinda dumb. Especially when the SEE-user refuses to learn ASL (it's different if they are new to ASL).

And I know EXACTLY what you are talking about in the bolded statement above. Now I am getting more involved with the deaf community, I have seen situations where deaf people just don't quite click with their social surroundings (all different types, not just hearing) and it's obvious that they do better in certain surroundings.
 
I'm still strong on oral but I do recognize an awesome benefit of ASL. I'm working on being fluent in it so I can get a terp for wherever I go. I do embrace it but I'm still strong on oral. ASL did change my life... made me view my deafness differently... changed my perspective... but not dramatic enough for me to stop talking.
 
PFH, that "deaf guy into politics and uses SEE".....if his last name begin s with a "V", he has been arrested ....:lol:
 
Tousi said:
PFH, that "deaf guy into politics and uses SEE".....if his last name begin s with a "V", he has been arrested ....:lol:
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This guy.... wouldnt be surprised if he has been arrested too.. he has a very very questionable past but the name doesnt start with a V.
 
posts from hell said:
This guy.... wouldnt be surprised if he has been arrested too.. he has a very very questionable past but the name doesnt start with a V.
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Ok, this guy I'm speaking of.....since his name has already been in the news...is Voracek
 
Daredevel7 said:
I can see why some people use SEE, especially when it comes to English education and for interpreters. Maybe one feels more comfortable using SEE to ensure that the interpreter conveys EXACTLY what the person is trying to say. However, to use SEE, repeatedly, in a conversation mode with other ASL users, it seems kinda dumb. Especially when the SEE-user refuses to learn ASL (it's different if they are new to ASL).

And I know EXACTLY what you are talking about in the bolded statement above. Now I am getting more involved with the deaf community, I have seen situations where deaf people just don't quite click with their social surroundings (all different types, not just hearing) and it's obvious that they do better in certain surroundings.
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The only reason people use SEE is the simple fact they dont recognize the linguistic equal to english that ASL provides AND they don't trust interpreters. This guy however uses see 100%, even in a setting with everyone else speaking ASL
 
posts from hell said:
This guy.... wouldnt be surprised if he has been arrested too.. he has a very very questionable past but the name doesnt start with a V.
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Unfortunately, our prisons have many orally raised deaf in them. The ones I have communicated with were so caught up in looking for acceptance from hearing peers that they were led to engage in some very self destructive behaviors in an attempt to prove that they were "just as good" as their hearing peers. I find it incredibly sad.
 
Since finding the Deaf community and my own identity in deafness nearly 2 years ago. I have been progressively making my hearing family and those around me aware of the changes I am aiming for and the accomodations that I desire. How I long to be totally voice-off and using sign language as my primary communication! However, I am faced with a predicament that is challenging to say the least. I am still learning AUSLAN everyday. I use it often with my younger children. But I am totally immersed in a hearing environment, my work together with my husband, demands that I continue to be oral too. Everyone is used to me being oral and so expects me to do as I have always done in the past. There are some things especially 'work' related that I cannot afford to change. I am thinking to perhaps view it this way: English being my acquired language as in the many languages my husband has acquired (he speaks and uses several in the course of a day). Perhaps looking at English in that perspective, I can still preserve sign language as my primary language? I am open to suggestions as to how I can achieve this successfully as I am one of those oral-deafies transitioning to sign language.
 
Talking about ASL, SEE and oralist. When I was falculty at NTID, being a teacher there is really tough to teach. When I became a teacher for one classes, on the very first day, I use strictly ASL, voice off and you name it. One student raise his hand and I said.."Yeeeassss?" He suddenly use oral asking me to use my voice. Ummm... then next student raise his hand and asking me if I can use SEE... and I stood there, ponder for second. In my mind I was like "Oooh...f*ck, lemme think lemme think..sh*t"... then I decided to ask how many of you know no sign language at all? Only two students raise their hands. Then I decided to use SEE and voice at the same time.. then later one deaf student asked me a question using pure bred ASL, and the oralist, SEE have no fook'in idea what he's saying.. Then I have to interpreted for them. It's insane!@$!@$!@#!!
 
Stuff like this convinces me more and more that the Deaf Community really needs to do active outreach to oral kids...like " we know you've mastered English and that's awesome....but here's another tool that might be helpful."
It's a second language and it's great for learning more advanced stuff and awesome for social emoitional stuff too.
 
I'm still strong on oral but I do recognize an awesome benefit of ASL. I'm working on being fluent in it so I can get a terp for wherever I go. I do embrace it but I'm still strong on oral
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Exactly Jiro! I find it SO funny that the very same thinking by parents " Oh I don't want them to depend on a 'terp" which in turn leads to an exclusive focus on speech, then creates kids who find ASL and Deaf culture to be something AMAZING and an open door for them!
I also find it funny that the same parents who rave about how their kids don't have to depend on an interpreter, are the very same people whining that there's no equaliavant to a 'terp for oral deafs.
Unfortunately, our prisons have many orally raised deaf in them. The ones I have communicated with were so caught up in looking for acceptance from hearing peers that they were led to engage in some very self destructive behaviors in an attempt to prove that they were "just as good" as their hearing peers.
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*nods* Yes. The thinking has been that "oh oral and mainstreamed kids will reap all the advantages of the mainstream, without thinking that the kid may basicly "sit in the back of the mainstream/oral bus.
I know a couple of dhh oral and mainstreamed to the max girls, who do stuff like sleep around with guys b/c they have no real friends or connections with anyone.
 
Oh, I would like to add in response to PFH's "I wonder why"......WE ARE TIRED because it doesn't come naturally, it is an continuous effort that doesn't get easier as time goes by.....we just become experts at fooling people into thinking it is easy and by bluffing our way through life. If given the choice, why bother. Go sign language!
 
BecLak said:
Since finding the Deaf community and my own identity in deafness nearly 2 years ago. I have been progressively making my hearing family and those around me aware of the changes I am aiming for and the accomodations that I desire. How I long to be totally voice-off and using sign language as my primary communication! However, I am faced with a predicament that is challenging to say the least. I am still learning AUSLAN everyday. I use it often with my younger children. But I am totally immersed in a hearing environment, my work together with my husband, demands that I continue to be oral too. Everyone is used to me being oral and so expects me to do as I have always done in the past. There are some things especially 'work' related that I cannot afford to change. I am thinking to perhaps view it this way: English being my acquired language as in the many languages my husband has acquired (he speaks and uses several in the course of a day). Perhaps looking at English in that perspective, I can still preserve sign language as my primary language? I am open to suggestions as to how I can achieve this successfully as I am one of those oral-deafies transitioning to sign language.
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That is a tough predicament because to suddenly go voice-off could appear to some as if you are withdrawing from them. You need to make them aware of the difficulties you face trying to communicate orally and that signing allows you to better express yourself in a language that is more natural to you. Even better if you could encourage them to learn sign language, too. And you definitely need the full support of your husband. I hope he's learning sign language along with you.
 
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