It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

[Daredevel7]

I have a question, Where are all the parents???? So many have left alldeaf that I am not sure that you are going to get a valid answer. I wonder why many of them left or didn't join?

Someone could argue that they didn't even bother trying to join. Someone else could argue they did join and because people would be negative to them, they left. So ehh it's all speculation.

 

[jillio]

One thing I keep seeing repeatedly is some deaf people telling hearing parents that they must sign with their deaf children or the type of education they must chose for their child, I personally think that the hearing parents do not like to be critized.

There could be a lot of reasons why some hearing parents do not sign, perhaps one could be that they are around hearing people more than they are with deaf people OR they do not turn off their voices completely and sign to their deaf children on a daily basis . Who knows My hearing parents still do not sign and no matter how many times I've told them to, nothing has changed but I still love them anyways.

When a deaf individual recommends that a parent learn sign, it is not a criticism. It is a suggestion coming from one who has lived through the very situation their child is in. It is not a criticism, it is the offering of personal experience that could very well lead to improved outcomes for their child. The hearing parents simply choose to see it as criticism. That is the whole point.

 

[vallee]

Absolutley, I had high hopes and dreams for my son's future. Those hopes and dreams did not change when I found out he was deaf. I just had to find an alternate method for showing him that those hopes and dreams were possible, and that included exposing him to the Deaf Culture that could show him, in a very real way, that he could achieve anything he wanted to achieve. Children need concrete example in order to relate. Telling him that, given that I was hearing, didn't have much impact. Always available is the reply, "But it isn't the same for you. You are hearing." That excuse is not available when shown a successful deaf role model. My child did not need to be hearing, or to be protected from exposure to the deaf community in order for me to have high expectations of him. I had them no matter. Exposure to the deaf community showed him that he could, indeed, live up to those expectations as a deaf individual.

I may not have had deaf role models, but my mom did exposure good role models to me. She use to tell me that where others say can't. she said I can. That positive role model is important weather deaf or hearing.

Let me take your comment and expand it - exposure to a positive community shows that a child can live up to those expectations as an individual.

While I am deaf, I have always put myself first and my deafness second. I see me, not deaf Vallee. My mom believed that placing my deafness first allows others to focus on it not me. That is my opinion.

 

[vallee]

Someone could argue that they didn't even bother trying to join. Someone else could argue they did join and because people would be negative to them, they left. So ehh it's all speculation.

I have seen many hearing parents of deaf children online they join and then stop posting. I chose to go with the second part of your statement.

 

[jillio]

I have a question, Where are all the parents???? So many have left alldeaf that I am not sure that you are going to get a valid answer. I wonder why many of them left or didn't join?

For the very same reasons that they choose not to embrace the deaf community on a one-to-one basis for the benefit of their child. I would suggest that it is a reluctance to confront and deal with their own issues regarding their child's deafness, and instead, make a choice to blame their lack of personal honesty and insight on others.

And that is not an accusation. It is an observation. From both a hearing parent, and a professional trained to see the nuances of human behavior and attitude.

 

[Jolie77]

I must say, this is an excellent thread to begin with.

I think the word "rejection" can come on as a strong thing but aside from that, its about how both sides generalizes the attitude for each other.

From what I see, it is also about instilling the fear itself for both sides because when that happens, both sides are asking to get the bigger picture of how one can possibly fit in. When that does not happen, that also gets to a point where everybody feels they are not able to meet halfway or better yet, to set a parallel line.

I'm on the sidekick at the moment and will bring some more insight to this later on to continue this discussion.

 

[jillio]

I may not have had deaf role models, but my mom did exposure good role models to me. She use to tell me that where others say can't. she said I can. That positive role model is important weather deaf or hearing.

Let me take your comment and expand it - exposure to a positive community shows that a child can live up to those expectations as an individual.

While I am deaf, I have always put myself first and my deafness second. I see me, not deaf Vallee. My mom believed that placing my deafness first allows others to focus on it not me. That is my opinion.

And, when she said, "You can." was she saying it from the perspective of a deaf individual who actually "had", or from the perspective of a hearing person who "had'? That is my point. Giving a deaf child all hearing role models only demonstrates to them what a hearing person can accomplish. As a teacher, I'm sure you understand that children need very concrete examples that they can relate to their world and their experience. Their experience is one of being a deaf child, not a hearing child. Therefore, in order to relate these role models to their own lives, they need examples of deaf role models.

 

[jillio]

I have seen many hearing parents of deaf children online they join and then stop posting. I chose to go with the second part of your statement.

Perhaps it is a case of making the choice to ignore that which would cause revision in their perspective. It happens all the time in all walks of life. Just the same my deaf son closing his eyes because he did not want to be corrected on his behavior, some adults will choose to ignore that which makes them uncomfortable or would cause them to engage in an active change process.

 

[jillio]

I have seen many hearing parents of deaf children online they join and then stop posting. I chose to go with the second part of your statement.

Many leave here, where there is a large percentage of culturally deaf, and spend their time in forums where the majority of posters are hearing parents with implanted children that subscribe to the same ideas they do. That is the whole point, vallee. An unwillingness to listen to, and provide validation for, any perspective that is not directly in line with their own.

These individuals are not looking for understanding or knowledge. They are looking for someone that agrees with them. Hardly the same thing at all. They are looking for reasurrance, not for information that could help them enrich not just their deaf child's life, but their opwn life, as well.

 

[Daredevel7]

Perhaps it is a case of making the choice to ignore that which would cause revision in their perspective. It happens all the time in all walks of life. Just the same my deaf son closing his eyes because he did not want to be corrected on his behavior, some adults will choose to ignore that which makes them uncomfortable or would cause them to engage in an active change process.

You mean like "NANANANA I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT! NANANANA!"

I think perhaps we need to increase the efficiency of what we are trying to say to each other. I mean if one is genuinely concerned about the path of one's child, how about presenting options that meet halfway instead of telling them what to do?

Do you really expect parents to respond a "You need to put the child in a deaf school" with a "SIR, YES, SIR!"

 

[Liza]

You mean like "NANANANA I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT! NANANANA!"

I think perhaps we need to increase the efficiency of what we are trying to say to each other. I mean if one is genuinely concerned about the path of one's child, how about presenting options that meet halfway instead of telling them what to do?

Do you really expect parents to respond a "You need to put the child in a deaf school" with a "SIR, YES, SIR!"

I haven't said that to anyone, but I think you have a good point about needing to not be so forceful about our POVs.

 

[jillio]

You mean like "NANANANA I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT! NANANANA!"

I think perhaps we need to increase the efficiency of what we are trying to say to each other. I mean if one is genuinely concerned about the path of one's child, how about presenting options that meet halfway instead of telling them what to do?

Do you really expect parents to respond a "You need to put the child in a deaf school" with a "SIR, YES, SIR!"

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. You condensed it very nicely! (I was trying to be diplomatic, lol!)

Of course I don't expect anyone to listen to such a definitive statement and respond positively. What I do expect is that they will listen to the "why" behind the statement, and give it the credibility and validity that it deserves. From both sides.

 

[vallee]

For the very same reasons that they choose not to embrace the deaf community on a one-to-one basis for the benefit of their child. I would suggest that it is a reluctance to confront and deal with their own issues regarding their child's deafness, and instead, make a choice to blame their lack of personal honesty and insight on others.

And that is not an accusation. It is an observation. From both a hearing parent, and a professional trained to see the nuances of human behavior and attitude.

or one can observe that they didn't feel that this is the type of community that they wanted their child to be a part of. We don't know if they then went out into their own community and connected to the Deaf Community there. One can also say they after reading negative comments they wanted more of a positive outlook for their child. Or even maybe Alldeaf is not as diverse as they wanted. There are other forums and areas where they can go and get a global view of CI/HA/cued speech/ASL. Either way we do not have enough data to make that statement about the issue of their child's deafness. Just because it goes against your views or mine, does not mean that parent has that view. My mom saw my deafness even if I was mainstreamed.

 

[jillio]

I haven't said that to anyone, but I think you have a good point about needing to not be so forceful about our POVs.

From both perspectives. Yes.

 

[vallee]

And, when she said, "You can." was she saying it from the perspective of a deaf individual who actually "had", or from the perspective of a hearing person who "had'? That is my point. Giving a deaf child all hearing role models only demonstrates to them what a hearing person can accomplish. As a teacher, I'm sure you understand that children need very concrete examples that they can relate to their world and their experience. Their experience is one of being a deaf child, not a hearing child. Therefore, in order to relate these role models to their own lives, they need examples of deaf role models.

Her view was a mother to a child. So my child looking up to our vet is not a good model, since my child is Asian American? A good role model goes across the race and ability areas.

 

[jillio]

or one can observe that they didn't feel that this is the type of community that they wanted their child to be a part of. We don't know if they then went out into their own community and connected to the Deaf Community there. One can also say they after reading negative comments they wanted more of a positive outlook for their child. Or even maybe Alldeaf is not as diverse as they wanted. There are other forums and areas where they can go and get a global view of CI/HA/cued speech/ASL. Either way we do not have enough data to make that statement about the issue of their child's deafness. Just because it goes against your views or mine, does not mean that parent has that view. My mom saw my deafness even if I was mainstreamed.

Chances are very great that if they didn't connect here, they didn't connect on a personal level, either. Connecting one-on-one with a deaf individual creates much more discomfort for most than an online connection. They only have to see a post online; they can ignore that there is an actual, real, live person behind that post.

And we are not talking about parents refusing to let their children associate with people on AD. We are talking about those same parents deciding that they would not accept the views of a different culture. It isn't the deaf kids that leave here, it is the hearing parents. That, in and of itself, tells you a great deal about their motivation.

 

[vallee]

Many leave here, where there is a large percentage of culturally deaf, and spend their time in forums where the majority of posters are hearing parents with implanted children that subscribe to the same ideas they do. That is the whole point, vallee. An unwillingness to listen to, and provide validation for, any perspective that is not directly in line with their own.

These individuals are not looking for understanding or knowledge. They are looking for someone that agrees with them. Hardly the same thing at all. They are looking for reasurrance, not for information that could help them enrich not just their deaf child's life, but their opwn life, as well.

So they join areas where people have the same experiences as them? We don't know if they are unwilling to see the point, maybe they don't feel your experiences of 20 years ago are valid to today. Or my experiences of 36 years ago are valid to them. Instead of others yelling or judging them they want like parents who can understand them. Parents who then make changes to learn ASL or cued speech or even oral.

 

[jillio]

Her view was a mother to a child. So my child looking up to our vet is not a good model, since my child is Asian American? A good role model goes across the race and ability areas.

And a good role model that a child can relate to their own life and experience is the one that will have the greatest impact. I did not say that deaf children should not have hearing role models. What I said was, they also need to have deaf role models in order to be able to relate those role models directly to their life and their experience.

Let me ask you a question, vallee. Did you not tell us a while back that you were making an attempt to make a connection with the deaf community in Nashville as an adult?

 

[jillio]

So they join areas where people have the same experiences as them? We don't know if they are unwilling to see the point, maybe they don't feel your experiences of 20 years ago are valid to today. Or my experiences of 36 years ago are valid to them. Instead of others yelling or judging them they want like parents who can understand them. Parents who then make changes to learn ASL or cued speech or even oral.

And now you are feeding into that very justfication. BTW, my experiences did not end 20 years ago, they only began there. They continue today. And when one doesn't see anything changing in that 20 year span of experience and interaction, it is indeed valid. You are simply validating the "My child is different because the technology has changed." argument that so many hearing parents use. As I said in my OP, technology has changed, but the soul and the needs of the deaf child have not. Perhaps the issue is not one hearing parent finding another that can understand them, but of creating hearing parents that better understand the experience of their deaf child.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Hmm... This is a very thought provoking thread. Where do I begin?

I think a lot of it has to do with the parents' attitude and bias toward speech and being able to hear just like everyone else. Sign language makes it very clear that the child isn't hearing. There are times when I think the whole point of oralism is to hide deafness as much as possible.

You'd be surprised at what some hearing say to me because they think I'm more like them then the other deaf because of my speech and I tried very hard to like them as much as possible when i was younger.

They'll say things like my thoughts must be more advanced than X because I have good speech. When I mentioned that some deaf got placed in classes for the MR when they were in the to my mother, she said to me that clearly they learned so little in school so that they deserve to be there. If you have an attitude like that you'll not get very far with the Deaf community even if you don't say so explicitly. Others will pick up on your attitude sooner or later and they won't be so friendly to you. Worse, your relationship with your deaf child will suffer as a result. No one likes to be treated like a second class citizen.

I agree, deafskeptic. I think it is much more about the underlying attitude that governs the behavior than most would care to admit.

Let me jump in here with a question...

Btw, I agree with you both about atitudes and what not, but having said that...

Where does that atitude start? Does it start with a pre-conceived notion that the parent wants their child to be apart of the hearing world, and therefore they seek out advice from that vantage point or does it start with the medical professional that says if you want your child to fit in, you must do this, that, or the other, to ensure your child's success in the hearing world?