Is more speech therapy worth it?

deafdyke said:
That is b/c Utah School for the Deaf is heavily oral (with a small signing program And its been very heavily oral for many years....since the 80's I believe.....I thought that the res school in Utah was very small , and it was mostly made up of "satillate" programs (including two or three oral, ending in inclusion programs)
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DeafDyke, can you send me a way that I can communicate with you privately? AD won't let me send you a PM.
 
Rabbitnose said:
I read somewhere that you have 18q-syndrome. Doesn't that mean that you have at most 60dB of conductive hearing loss that can be completely corrected by bone conduction hearing aids?
Not sayin you aren't Deaf. Just you have a choice.
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Who are you talking to? And as a brand new member, what are you??

A stalker? :ugh:
 
Rabbitnose said:
I read somewhere that you have 18q-syndrome. Doesn't that mean that you have at most 60dB of conductive hearing loss that can be completely corrected by bone conduction hearing aids?
Not sayin you aren't Deaf. Just you have a choice.
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It looks like hearing loss can vary and be SNL or conductive.

Hearing

Hearing loss is fairly common in distal 18q-. The degree of loss varies from mild to severe.

Some people have hearing loss because their ear canals are narrow or end before they reach the ear drum. Cleft palates may also contribute to hearing loss. Other people have changes in the nerve that moves sound from the inner ear to the brain. As mentioned above, ear infections may also cause hearing loss.

Because there are several things that can cause hearing loss in people with distal 18q-, they should have regular hearing screening. This will help find and treat hearing loss early.
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Distal 18q-

So unless you know our member personally, and that would be very creepy if you were posting something you know in that way, you are making a lot of assumptions.
 
CSign said:
I tried to look into that further by trying to get on their website, but couldn't find one that seemed to work properly.

I did, however find an article from last year that referenced the fact that they had to cut their sign language class for parents due to budget cuts.

Utah Schools for the Deaf and Blind fight to keep programs - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News

I'm rather shocked that a state school for the deaf (and not an
NPS or private school) would take a listening and speaking approach without any visual support.
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What's an NPS? Well that's b/c Utah Schools really isn't a traditional state school, and hasn't been for quite a few decades. Like when people think state school, they think large res school campus. The res school in Ogden is very small, and most of their enrollment is in two oral classes....in the 80s and 90's they were HUGE with inclusion. I remember a former member saying that a lot of familes sign with their children, but b/c oral support isn't offered in a sign program, most parents opt for oral only.
 
Rabbitnose said:
I read somewhere that you have 18q-syndrome. Doesn't that mean that you have at most 60dB of conductive hearing loss that can be completely corrected by bone conduction hearing aids?
Not sayin you aren't Deaf. Just you have a choice.
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Dude, that is weird.
Think about what you wrote.
Do you want people to present an audiogram before they can be deaf? Do you know that Deaf culture isn't defined in medical terms?
 
ecp said:
Dude, that is weird.
Think about what you wrote.
Do you want people to present an audiogram before they can be deaf? Do you know that Deaf culture isn't defined in medical terms?
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You could fool me...he's just offering an opinion..it's his/her first post. Give him a break.

Laura
 
ecp said:
I'm possibly going to regret this but why should speech therapy be eliminated?
I'm not saying that my years in speech therapy were enjoyable but I was able to communicate better (I have progressive hearing loss so when I was a kid I could hear more than I can now). Now as a profoundly deaf adult I recently asked a friend from high school who is now a SLP to give me some articulation drills for practice because I have to learn new disease names every day for school.
I'm not trying to have perfect speech, I just know that like everything else, I have to work harder than my hearing peers at everything. I want to use every resource I have.


When it comes to kids everything becomes more tricky and thus more emotionally charged. That is natural.
I know I react with mild revulsion when I see AVT therapists cover their mouths but that is partly because I need to see to hear. That doesn't mean that some kids don't do amazingly well with AVT. My mild dislike of AVT is based on my experiences as a person who needs visual access to language.

Basically, the world isn't white and black. There are shades of grey (oh god. That book everybody has been reading is ruining metaphors!). Some deaf/hoh kids are amazing in an auditory only environment and some struggle. Some hearing kids just don't do well learning from listening. Some kids need sign.
The point is that we sometimes forget that the sign v oral debate doesn't have a right or wrong. It all depends on what works for the kid AND what works for the kid can and does change.
Adults should probably relax a bit and take cues from the kids.
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Actually I strongly disagree. Sure, some auditory training is a good thing....BUT, its not as if other approaches (except for ASL only) don't use auditory training. The problem with auditory verbal is that it demands that it be an exclusive approach. It demands that a dhh kid needs to function as Normally As Possible. It views even speechreading as a "crutch" WHY do we hyperfocus so much on trying to make kids with disabilities function as normally as possible? WHY is there such a demonization of specialized methods? The point is, yes dhh kids can learn to hear and speak.....but that doesn't mean that they might not benefit from ASL and Deaf culture and even *gasp* DEAF ED! The thing is....the emphasis on functioning as Normally As Possible is what I have against the auditory verbal approach. It's saying " You must be normal. You must fake being deaf in a hearing world." I also hate hate the implication that there are no downsides to faking being hearing, when you're deaf. ....How come there's no research on the negative social emotional impact of faking being hearing? I also think that auditory verbal ignores the fact that the hearing world isn't some glorious utopia.....
 
My wife and I were discussing this topic today, and she asked a very profound question:

Who gets the most benefit from speech therapy, the deaf person, or everybody around him?
 
I do think that auditory verbal is child abuse. It is not like kids who sign are locked away in Willowbrook. The insistence that a dhh kid must become as hearing as possible and assimulate into the hearing world is just.......it smacks of a parent not accepting that their kid is different. They're so desperate for normalacly that they want their dhh kid to be as normal as possible. Reminds me of straight parents who want their GLB kids to be as normal as possible and try to turn them into straight kids.
It is very rare that a dhh kid totally and completely assimulates into hearing society. Talk to kids who were raised oral only... they will tell you they feel like they don't totally fit into hearing society.....and these are kids who overall are oral successes. That is pretty much all the proof that you need that assimulation into the hearing world cannot and does not happen....B/c we are dhh.......we can never be hearing. Some of us can fake it, but that takes a hell of a lot of energy. Besides faking it leads to self hatred....and isn't self hatred one of the things that leads to things like drug abuse, alchoholism, and a lot of other things?
 
Mountain Man said:
My wife and I were discussing this topic today, and she asked a very profound question:

Who gets the most benefit from speech therapy, the deaf person, or everybody around him?
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That reminds me.......There was another (mildly hoh...mild to moderate loss) hoh kid at my school. He identified as blind-deaf. I remember one of my friends saying "Imagine a conversation between deafdyke and Kevin?" " What?" "What? "What?"
 
Wirelessly posted

deafdyke said:
I do think that auditory verbal is child abuse. It is not like kids who sign are locked away in Willowbrook. The insistence that a dhh kid must become as hearing as possible and assimulate into the hearing world is just.......it smacks of a parent not accepting that their kid is different. They're so desperate for normalacly that they want their dhh kid to be as normal as possible. Reminds me of straight parents who want their GLB kids to be as normal as possible and try to turn them into straight kids.
It is very rare that a dhh kid totally and completely assimulates into hearing society. Talk to kids who were raised oral only... they will tell you they feel like they don't totally fit into hearing society.....and these are kids who overall are oral successes. That is pretty much all the proof that you need that assimulation into the hearing world cannot and does not happen....B/c we are dhh.......we can never be hearing. Some of us can fake it, but that takes a hell of a lot of energy. Besides faking it leads to self hatred....and isn't self hatred one of the things that leads to things like drug abuse, alchoholism, and a lot of other things?
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This exactly. Although I didn't hate myself to the point of going down the road of self-destruction. It devastated me to wake up to the fact that my life trying so hard to be hearing, was all a sham.
 
I don't think speech therapy in and of itself is "child abuse." I think excessive therapy with the goal of "erasing" the child's hearing loss is cruel, but wanting your kid's speech to improve to open more doors and make it easier for him to communicate with hearing people isn't abusive.
 
Mountain Man said:
My wife and I were discussing this topic today, and she asked a very profound question:

Who gets the most benefit from speech therapy, the deaf person, or everybody around him?
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It would seem that they both benefit, actually.
 
deafdyke said:
What's an NPS? Well that's b/c Utah Schools really isn't a traditional state school, and hasn't been for quite a few decades. Like when people think state school, they think large res school campus. The res school in Ogden is very small, and most of their enrollment is in two oral classes....in the 80s and 90's they were HUGE with inclusion. I remember a former member saying that a lot of familes sign with their children, but b/c oral support isn't offered in a sign program, most parents opt for oral only.
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NPS is a non-public school.

Apparently at the school in Utah where they use ASL, spoken language is essentially forbidden, with the exception of a short amount of time for speech therapy that uses simultaneous communication. Given the rigidity of Utah's ASL Bi-Bi program, it's no surprise that the significant majority of DHH students use a listening and spoken language approach.

That is where the problem lies.
 
Mountain Man said:
My wife and I were discussing this topic today, and she asked a very profound question:

Who gets the most benefit from speech therapy, the deaf person, or everybody around him?
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That is a very good question.

I would think if anyone have natural skill who more likely less get struggles.
 
Mountain Man said:
My wife and I were discussing this topic today, and she asked a very profound question:

Who gets the most benefit from speech therapy, the deaf person, or everybody around him?
Click to expand...

The people around me because they wouldn't have to do any compromising. I still get short handed no matter what.
 
deafdyke said:
I do think that auditory verbal is child abuse. It is not like kids who sign are locked away in Willowbrook. The insistence that a dhh kid must become as hearing as possible and assimulate into the hearing world is just.......it smacks of a parent not accepting that their kid is different. They're so desperate for normalacly that they want their dhh kid to be as normal as possible. Reminds me of straight parents who want their GLB kids to be as normal as possible and try to turn them into straight kids.
It is very rare that a dhh kid totally and completely assimulates into hearing society. Talk to kids who were raised oral only... they will tell you they feel like they don't totally fit into hearing society.....and these are kids who overall are oral successes. That is pretty much all the proof that you need that assimulation into the hearing world cannot and does not happen....B/c we are dhh.......we can never be hearing. Some of us can fake it, but that takes a hell of a lot of energy. Besides faking it leads to self hatred....and isn't self hatred one of the things that leads to things like drug abuse, alchoholism, and a lot of other things?
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If this isn't too much of a threadjack and/or too painful, I'd like to hear more about how people who fake it feel. Are there any-- I'm not sure how to put this, but are there any really common experiences, or patterns, that people that have been raised oral would all recognize in each other?

If you don't want this thread to end up being about that, that's fine, it is kind of a threadjack and probably more interesting to me than anyone else.
 
RandomHearie said:
If this isn't too much of a threadjack and/or too painful, I'd like to hear more about how people who fake it feel. Are there any-- I'm not sure how to put this, but are there any really common experiences, or patterns, that people that have been raised oral would all recognize in each other?

If you don't want this thread to end up being about that, that's fine, it is kind of a threadjack and probably more interesting to me than anyone else.
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So you really have Asperger's?
 
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