Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[Daredevel7]

Who determines for 100% sure who wont have the risks of language delays in young deaf children? Nobody can which is why so many deaf children start school with no strong first language. If anyone could, then we wouldnt have this worldwide problem, wouldnt we?

No one, it's definitely safer to do ASL. However I cannot accept that ASL really is the best thing to do for EVERY SINGLE deaf and hoh person. If it had ABSOLUTELY NO DOWNSIDE to it, then I wouldn't object to it, but I believe it does. It just bothers me that some people believe that ASL has no negative points at all. This is a different belief than believing that ASL utlimately has greater benefits and much higher probability of success than English for deaf people.

 

[shel90]

I don't see it as a crutch. I see it as the easiest and most accessable language for the deaf.
But, I know that 99% of the world doesn't use ASL. If a person is going to be able to get around in life, they can't rely on ASL.

So are u saying that those who have no oral skills wont get around in life?

 

[shel90]

No one, it's definitely safer to do ASL. However I cannot accept that ASL really is the best thing to do for EVERY SINGLE deaf and hoh person. If it had ABSOLUTELY NO DOWNSIDE to it, then I wouldn't object to it, but I believe it does. It just bothers me that some people believe that ASL has no negative points at all. This is a different belief than believing that ASL utlimately has greater benefits and much higher probability of success than English for deaf people.

No language has no downside...

the downside is that deaf people cant hear and spoken language is meant to be processed auditorially...that's the whole point.

 

[faire_jour]

So are u saying that those who have no oral skills wont get around in life?

I assume they will use written English.

 

[faire_jour]

No language has no downside...

the downside is that deaf people cant hear and spoken language is meant to be processed auditorially...that's the whole point.

But CI users and hoh hearing people can.

 

[shel90]

I assume they will use written English.

I have never met a Deaf person who is pure 100% ASL-only without learning written English. That would unethical of the education system to allow that and I would be against it.

 

[shel90]

But CI users and hoh hearing people can.

If they do, then why the many posts by hoh and CI users expressing their frustrations of not fitting in anywhere because they dont know sign language. It is apparent they cant hear like hearing people can and be able to pick up what is being said around them like hearing people do.


Adults are a different story but when it comes to young children developing language, that's risky.


If it there were no risks, then we wouldnt get CI users or HOH children coming from oral only programs with a weak foundation in language.

 

[faire_jour]

I have never met a Deaf person who is pure 100% ASL-only without learning written English. That would unethical of the education system to allow that and I would be against it.

Honestly, when I talk to oral parents, what they want is for their children to be able to ask for directions at the airport, to be able to ask a store clerk where the bathroom is. These aren't unreasonable desires.

 

[Berry]

All my life I have known bilingual, even trilingual people. Never have I seen a downside.

When I was a kid my best friend was CODA, fully hearing. He could read lips like a champ, and it helped him and me. He knew many things the teachers and other kids were up to when they whispered in the hallways.

But when a kid is deaf or hard of hearing people start discussing the disadvantages of learning more than one language.

Strange.

I think EVERYBODY would benefit by knowing how to lip read and ASL.

 

[faire_jour]

If they do, then why the many posts by hoh and CI users expressing their frustrations of not fitting in anywhere because they dont know sign language. It is apparent they cant hear like hearing people can and be able to pick up what is being said around them like hearing people do.


Adults are a different story but when it comes to young children developing language, that's risky.


If it there were no risks, then we wouldnt get CI users or HOH children coming from oral only programs with a weak foundation in language.

I din't say they hear like hearing people, just that they do hear, and many hear very well.
There are also TONS of unseen "little d" deaf people who live in the hearing world and never learn ASL. They are not a part of the Deaf community and never will be. They are happy with their lives.
You do end up with the kids that fail, but there are kids who don't.

 

[shel90]

Honestly, when I talk to oral parents, what they want is for their children to be able to ask for directions at the airport, to be able to ask a store clerk where the bathroom is. These aren't unreasonable desires.

My brother can do all that despite having no oral skills.


He drove all the way from AZ to MD and vice versa a few times and his truck broke down once. That was before pagers were available...he was able to interact with a few hearing non signers enough to get help getting back to AZ. He didnt need assistant like a low functioning person because he had the language and knowledge to acquire the skills to adapt and children who grow up into adults without a strong first language wont have those skills.

 

[shel90]

I din't say they hear like hearing people, just that they do hear, and many hear very well.
There are also TONS of unseen "little d" deaf people who live in the hearing world and never learn ASL. They are not a part of the Deaf community and never will be. They are happy with their lives.
You do end up with the kids that fail, but there are kids who don't.

And becauseof the philosophy of using ASL as a crutch and denying them of it, those kids end up with no language and why is it ok to put ANY children at risks as long as some succeed??? That is my whole POINT!

WHAT ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS...oh...too bad for them cuz they failed...their fault, right? If u and others see it that way, then I hope u can sleep at night.

 

[faire_jour]

My brother can do all that despite having no oral skills.


He drove all the way from AZ to MD and vice versa a few times and his truck broke down once. That was before pagers were available...he was able to interact with a few hearing non signers enough to get help getting back to AZ. He didnt need assistant like a low functioning person because he had the language and knowledge to acquire the skills to adapt and children who grow up into adults without a strong first language wont have those skills.

They just want their children's lives to be as easy as they can be, and yes, I believe that a person with great oral skills has an easier time in everyday life than someone who doesn't.

 

[Babyblue]

Honestly, when I talk to oral parents, what they want is for their children to be able to ask for directions at the airport, to be able to ask a store clerk where the bathroom is. These aren't unreasonable desires.

That's funny. It is even hard for a hearing person to give out directions without using their hands or drawing a map.

 

[shel90]

They just want their children's lives to be as easy as they can be, and yes, I believe that a person with great oral skills has an easier time in everyday life than someone who doesn't.

My life wasnt any easier than my brother's. In fact, it was a lot harder cuz I had limited access to communication while he had full access to communication growing up. :roll:

 

[Daredevel7]

All my life I have known bilingual, even trilingual people. Never have I seen a downside.

When I was a kid my best friend was CODA, fully hearing. He could read lips like a champ, and it helped him and me. He knew many things the teachers and other kids were up to when they whispered in the hallways.

But when a kid is deaf or hard of hearing people start discussing the disadvantages of learning more than one language.

Strange.

I think EVERYBODY would benefit by knowing how to lip read and ASL.

Ah.. but im talking about L1 language. The language that you start with. Some people think that a deaf person learning ASL then English is the same thing as a hearing person learning Spanish then English. I think it's a different situation given the uniqueness of how a deaf person acquires language.

Obviously, the more languages you know, the better. I was thinking in terms of during the period of acquring language, not post lingually.

 

[faire_jour]

And becauseof the philosophy of using ASL as a crutch and denying them of it, those kids end up with no language and why is it ok to put ANY children at risks as long as some succeed??? That is my whole POINT!

WHAT ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS...oh...too bad for them cuz they failed...their fault, right? If u and others see it that way, then I hope u can sleep at night.

I never said that they shouldn't have ASL. I just think that today, in the time of very early intervention, great amplification, and therapies, that these children are becoming fewer and fewer, and hopefully it will eventually stop.

 

[Bottesini]

They just want their children's lives to be as easy as they can be, and yes, I believe that a person with great oral skills has an easier time in everyday life than someone who doesn't.

I promise you that is not true.

 

[shel90]

I never said that they shouldn't have ASL. I just think that today, in the time of very early intervention, great amplification, and therapies, that these children are becoming fewer and fewer, and hopefully it will eventually stop.

U want ASL to be eliminated and Deaf culture destroyed?

 

[faire_jour]

My life wasnt any easier than my brother's. In fact, it was a lot harder cuz I had limited access to communication while he had full access to communication growing up. :roll:

As an adult, you think it is easier for a person without oral skills to interact with the rest of society than someone who can speak and hear well?