Is God Perfect?

[Liebling:-)))]

Delve Into Jesus : Articles : How Can A Good God Permit Evil in the World?

First of all I would like to thank you to provide this interesting link here in my thread. I would like to quote some of the article to response my view.

Why is there evil in the world?
The source of evil in the world is you and I - all of mankind. We hurt others, we hurt ourselves and we hurt God. We sin. Each and every one of us has done this at least a few times in our lives. We have known what was right and what was wrong and we consciously, deliberately chose to do wrong. For some, the evil is nothing more than a lie or some hurtful words. For some, it is murder and savagery. Regardless of the severity, the nature of the sin is the same. At that moment, we rebelled against God and said to Him, "What I want right now is more important than you. I know this hurts you and I know it's wrong but I don't care, I'm doing it anyway."

I agree - it´s us who positive the negatives one, not excuse to blame God for anything.

Why did God allow us to get into this mess?
God made us this way because He loves us. He did not make us to be puppets or robots because true love can never be forced or demanded. It can never come from someone who is unable to make any other choice. Only when someone makes a decision from their own will and desire can it be said to be complete and true love. Thus, God will not control us, compel us or force us to do anything. We are completely free. Sometimes we do good, and sometime we do evil. God does not interfere.

I understand but why God punished Eve and Adam when he gave Eve and Adam free will in first place? If he gave them free will which mean is their choice. The choice, the people made is not criminal.

Why does God have to allow the effects of evil? Why not permit the choice, but not allow the awful consequences?
Imagine this idea in your own home, if you have any young children. Every time your child does something wrong, let's pretend you will simply clean up the mess and say nothing. There will be no punishment and no cleaning of their own mess. If they destroy something, you must replace it without saying another word. You will still have to try to do your best to teach them right and wrong, but there will never be a consequence for bad behavior. In this scenario, it's easy to see that your child will learn to do what feels best for them, for they cannot possibly have a sense of other people's needs and feelings. Without consequence and punishment, they will become ultimately selfish because it is impossible for them to know what it feels like to hurt another person. It's only by suffering the consequences of our actions that we can learn and become better people. Removing the consequence removes the moral element and it removes any opportunity we have to grow.

Simple is we parents correct our children´s behavior with form of discipline, not kick our innoncent children out of our house like what God did to Eve and Adam. They all learn to correct their mistakes, not receive harsh punishment like this.

Kick children out of our propertly doesn´t solve anything to learn how positive their mistakes.

Why permit all the effects of sin? Why not remove some of it?
He does! In fact, if one were to ask, "What has God done about the problem of sin?" the answer is, of course, "He sent His Son to die." However, this is what He has done in order to solve the problem ultimately and forever. In order to minimize the effect and consequence of sin daily, God has provided us with cultural, political and societal institutions such as government, economic order, family and education. All of these were put in place by God to minimize both the desire to sin and the effect of sin. These institutions protect and shield us, and without them we would descend into anarchy and chaos. (Witness the moral and ethical decline in the last 40 years as society has dismantled the traditional family unit which God provided.)

I would like to say something but it doesn´t relate this thread here but all what I want to ask question to myself... Why Jesus must suffer badly when he want to end his life for us? why suffer badly, not something different to die for us?

What about Disease and Natural Disasters?
Of course, this is not the entire picture. Free will and consequence cannot explain a three-year-old getting cancer or a nation wiped out in a earthquake. How can a loving God permit these things? No one sinned and no one made a choice. These things just happened!

Yes, I agree that it´s just happened, not blame God for anything.

First, we need to realize that as a result of our sin, the world is not what God intended it to be. When Man first began to rebel, everything changed and the earth which was once a blissful paradise became tough, unpredictable and wild. The fact that we, as a people, have lost our paradise is a consequence we all share for our combined sin. You can never point to a single event or sin which causes a child to fall ill, but you can say that we are all a sinful people and as a result, the world is a difficult place in which to live for each and every one of us, for none of us are without blame.

I am not angry and God for what he did but accept the fact the Bible as history how and why God use for his plan... It´s for me is a history, not more that... I do is positive my life and my family.....

I respectfully disagree that God was not intended it to be because I know God supposed to be omniscient and know all from the beginning to end and also knows the future and the past as well is part of his plan.

Yet still, there is another explanation. Is is true that sometimes God will permit evil or pain to happen for greater good. This is a very difficult thing, because we may never know in this life what the greater purpose was. It might be a great relief to know that by dying, your child will affect a hundred lives in a positive way, but sadly, we rarely have the opportunity to know. And so, it becomes an issue of trust and faith. If something bad happens to me, especially if I have prayed to God to take it away and He has not, I must have faith that God is in charge. I know that He is good and powerful and there is a reason that this is happening. I trust Him even when it makes no sense because He is good.

Faith and prayer doesn´t solve anything to help the people and children but ourselves... We find the way how to help the people and children ourselves is searching for the help, check with specialists, etc. etc. etc. It´s US with our own strength because the people and children need our strength. I don´t pray but positive my healthy myself and ask anyone for feedback...

Take a look at poor people in 3rd world... they keep on pray and pray and pray... It´s us who found them and help them what we can but they still can´t survive within 5 years... which is really sad...

That is easy to say and very hard to do! It can be the hardest thing in the world to stand by and watch someone suffer while all the time knowing that God could take it all away if He wanted. We pray and pray, and we start to worry that maybe God is not so good after all because a "good" God would take this pain away. But if He took it away, what greater good would be lost?

Sorry, pray doesn´t solve anything but positive and keep faith on your life and do something positive yourself. Keep faith to positive anything is mainly important than pray anything. IMO

If God is everything we know Him to be, then we have to have faith no matter how hard it may be, that He loves us and has our best interest in mind. He loves us too much to let us be the child whose parent cleans up after their every mess. He wants us to become something better.

Nice word but fact is it´s us who keep positive ourselves what and how kind of life we lead to.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

God has never changed his mind,

Yes he have.

Does God Ever Change His Mind?

Does God change His mind?

In fact He told Adam and Eve if they ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Eve the fruit would cause death. And it did, It brought sin in the world. "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned (Roman 5:12)

If I said to toddler that you will die if you drink household domestic liquid. He ingored me and experiement his curiously. It´s my responsible to watch him and make sure that he won´t drink it. Everyone tempt their curious is a part of normal life. God choose to give Eve and Adam freewill. I choose to not give my toddler freewill. This is a difference.

Then God promised a Salvation in the Old Testament and God did kept his promise. Jesus did came on earth and died on the cross to paid for our sins.

So where did God change his mind? He hasn't.

With all due respect, I can see the difference on God´s personality between OT and NT. It seem to me that God feel what he did wrong to kill the people and decided to fix NT that he don´t kill the people anymore.

Once again, God did warned them, Ok? It's the same for example: You command your child not to play in the street. Now if that child plays in the street and gets killed by a car, The child disobedience you. It's the same as Adam and Eve, they disobedience God.

Yes we warned our children but didn´t kick them out of our house or kill them for their disobedience, don´t we?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That point is NO ONE can understand Him why.

Yes, you are right that nobody understand Him why because I personally never do that.

Thanks for sharing with me, Liebling. [/COLOR]

Willkommen for polite response my post.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

God only set one rule for Adam and Eve, it is to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil but they both disobey God by eating the fruit anyways.

If a teacher set a rule in her classroom by telling the students not to touch something, do you expect your child to obey the teacher?

It's the same thing hon.

But I don´t kick them out of our house or kill them for their disobidence.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Still, why put it there?

You can't just put something there and say, "Don't touch it."

It´s scary... Can you image when I said to toddler... "Don´t touch household domestic chemical liquid? I can´t ...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yea Sunshine thanks for posting it, because like I said about Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the tree, God did not interfere, it's the same for us when we are sinning, God does not interfere either. God is hoping we will do what's right, not what's wrong. Just like us as parents we always hope that our children would do the right thing in life, not the wrong things, because we love our children, the same way God loves us all.

If God really love Eve and Adam then forgive them for their mistake for being tricked instead of kick them out of Eden Garden.

It´s God´s responsible for give Eve and Adam freewill to touch the forbidden fruit tree or not. Yes it´s his mistake to place the forbidden fruit tree and let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam.

Interfere? Are you saying that we should not interfere if our children tempted their curious to hurt themselves or disobey us?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I dont understand why it took 4,000 years for someone finally say, "Deaf can do anything but hear"

Jesus should not cure deaf man but instead Jesus should had proclaim to the world, "This deaf man can do anything but hear!!, He is not retarded!!! He is not deformed!!! blah.." But no Jesus decided to let it slide so that deaf people have to go suffer many years of oppressions. (substitute 'deaf' with other races or homosexuality, you ll get my point.)

What´s your post do with my thread here?

Can you explain clearly is it do with God´s prefect or not?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

We are not supposed to understand God since he doesn't want us to understand him since he prefer to work in mysterious way.

Yes, that´s right. We can´t understand him since we know that we would never do like what God did to his creation children.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I do believe God and Jesus are perfect.

God made the world. He made the day and night. he made the land, water, trees, and everything. He saw what was good. Then he made Adam and Eve. He put the tree there first before he create Adam and Eve. He didn't made a mistake for making that tree. He works in mysterious ways and put everything out as a test. Like for that tree was like a test to see if anyone will try not touch that tree. The Devil had tempted Eve. Eve made a choice to touch that tree and she have sinned. So God had to go away and that Adam and Eve are on their own. God didn't put the tree there for purposes as his mistakes.

I do not beleive that God didn´t intend to put the tree to let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam. Yes it´s God´s mistake for test Eve and Adam when he already know it would turn into bad.

I do beleive that God and Jesus were imperfect.

Did you know the story what and how Jesus did to people in Temple? Of course angry and whipped people out of Temple.

God was angry because he made a mistake to place the tree to test Eve and Adam.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

There is no doubt in my mind that "GOD" is not perfect. So I will have to say "no".

PS. Don't take my words too personal on my point of view. Thank you.

GTM, you are free to express what you feel like to since I already made a rule in my thread to not take our view personally. Debate each other should be normally... which mean is NORMALLY.

You are free to express your thought about those title "Is God Prefect"? and explain why...

 

[Askjo]

If God really love Eve and Adam then forgive them for their mistake for being tricked instead of kick them out of Eden Garden.

If God did not kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they would live on the earth forever. When God said that if they eat a forbidden fruit, they will surely die. God kept His words honestly.

It´s God´s responsible for give Eve and Adam freewill to touch the forbidden fruit tree or not. Yes it´s his mistake to place the forbidden fruit tree and let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam.

God did not make any mistakes. God instructed Adam concerning the tree and Adam rebelled against God after he ate it. God gave him the freewill for everything, but one rule on one tree. Adam is responsibile for his rebellion against God by becoming a sinner. Adam and Eve were NOT babies! They were fully mature.

I do not beleive that God didn´t intend to put the tree to let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam. Yes it´s God´s mistake for test Eve and Adam when he already know it would turn into bad.

You blame on God repeatedly. The reason that God tested is the tree of knowledge of good and evil because of the Satan. If the Satan did NOT tempt Eve, then God CANNOT judge against him.

I do beleive that God and Jesus were imperfect.

If so, Jesus CANNOT save us.

Did you know the story what and how Jesus did to people in Temple? Of course angry and whipped people out of Temple.

The Temple must be holy because God is holy. Well, God is angry. You are angry. Do you have a good reason by getting angry? If so, likewise God does.

God was angry because he made a mistake to place the tree to test Eve and Adam.

You twisted the Scriptures repeatedly. Shame on you. If God is mistaken, then He would destroy His holiness. No plan of Salvation!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

God? Which God? gods? Idolatry? You pick one of two bibles:

With all due respect, don´t tell me to pick which one. I am here to show my respect to different religion beleivers.

Get the accuracy of the Word of God that God provided?

Or

Get the inaccuracy of the word of gods that the Satan provided?

No matter what, the translators of every Bible interpreted differently. That´s how the people choose to beleive in differently.

You claim that all religions are false then is your opinion. I don´t claim that
all religions are false but show my respect on them. Would you like when I said that your beleif and bible are false?

The wording of any Bible translations identified with wording of the autographs where God perfectly inspired is perfectly preserved by God Himself. The accuracy of the Bible is the certainty of God’s Word.

I don´t think so because the bible author who wrotes are human being. I cannot image there´re error-free.

Concerning other gospel or other Jesus, any religions have their “other” bibles. These people believe in them than receiving the certainty of God’s Words and the accuracy of God’s Words, let them be accursed. The WARNING:

Simple is: we were not born at that time. We learn something from ANY bible. I don´t beleive that there´re error-free in the Bible. Yes I know that Jesus don´t have religion himself. I also don´t have religion as well. If I want to beleive God and Jesus then learn about them in the bible history and worship them myself, not become religion to worship them. That´s why I don´t involve any religion beleivers if they think their own bible are accurary. I personally would say that ALL bibles are not error-free.

How foolish are you?

Are you calling me foolish? This is an unacceptance. If you want to disagree with me then debate with me normally please.

If God is imperfect, then YOU won’t be here on the earth, even everyone who will not be here.

Why did God create them is because of the Satan. On other hand, if the Satan is not there, God would not create them.

Ooohh I see... I got it!

Did God make any mistakes upon the beginning of the creation? No, He did not.

Yes that´s right. He want create everything to be prefect in first place until he placed the forbidden fruit tree......... He should forgave Eve and Adam for their temptation instead of kick them out of Eden Garden.

Wrong. You twisted what the Book of Genesis said. The warning concerning that tree is if they eat it, they will SURELY die.

No, I do not twisted but I use my logic. Would you say to your small child " You will die if you drink household domestic chemical liquid? Do you think your small child would listen you? Nope! Would you kick your small child out of your house for disobey you to drink chemical liquid? Please use logic on this.

If so, Adam and Eve would be perfect, and then God CANNOT judge the Satan.

You already stated your own post... "Why did God create them is because of the Satan. On other hand, if the Satan is not there, God would not create them" God created couple of that Satan? It seem to me that God want to contest with Satan who wins - who obey?

The Satan did not tell them who he is. The Bible did not say that here. Get it?

Please don´t twist my post. I never said about Satan but God. I said that God never warn Eve and Adam about Satan´s existence.

You bring up your false comment against God.

This is a false statement and accusation! I use my logic view on this bible what and why... and accept it as history. I has the right to say what I see logic view on difference between bible and reality.

Please don´t take my post personally when I see view differently as you. Please respect it.

Look at the tree of knowledge of good and Eve. When Adam and Eve were perfect, they NEVER experience the difference between good and evil.

But God want everything prefect in first place. It says in my Bible. He warned them that they will die if they eat forbidden fruit tree and gave them free will.

Sure, Eve made a mistake for tempted her curious and beleive serprent and wasn´t realized that she was being tricked by Satan. If God is loving and forgive then he supposed to forgive her and Adam´s mistakes and correct their mistakes... instead of kick them out of Garden.

After they became sinners, they had new experience with this knowledge of good and evil for the first time. See? Get it?

Sure, but God is supposed to forgive them when he is loving God. *shrug*

They did not makes any mistakes without the Satan. If God did not put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God cannot judge against the Satan.

But God was angry with Eve and Adam if he decided to place the forbidden fruit tree in first place to give them freewill to test their faith...

Why God is angry for? It shows his imperfect!!!!

 

[Reba]

I agree - it´s us who positive the negatives one, not excuse to blame God for anything.

You are right; there is no excuse for blaming God for anything. God makes no mistakes, so we can't blame Him when things go wrong.

I understand but why God punished Eve and Adam when he gave Eve and Adam free will in first place? If he gave them free will which mean is their choice. The choice, the people made is not criminal.

They made their choices, and so they must accept the consequences that go with those choices. They knew what would happen before they made their choices.

Simple is we parents correct our children´s behavior with form of discipline, not kick our innoncent children out of our house like what God did to Eve and Adam. They all learn to correct their mistakes, not receive harsh punishment like this.

Kick children out of our propertly doesn´t solve anything to learn how positive their mistakes.

Adam and Eve weren't children.

I would like to say something but it doesn´t relate this thread here but all what I want to ask question to myself... Why Jesus must suffer badly when he want to end his life for us? why suffer badly, not something different to die for us?

Why do you ask this again and again? Many people have answered you multiple times. Do you expect the answer to change?

For the umpteenth time, Jesus volunteered to take our penalty upon Himself because He loves us and doesn't want us to suffer for eternity.

... We find the way how to help the people and children ourselves is searching for the help, check with specialists, etc. etc. etc. ...

Which "specialists" take care of your eternal soul?

Take a look at poor people in 3rd world... they keep on pray and pray and pray... It´s us who found them and help them what we can but they still can´t survive within 5 years... which is really sad...

To which people specifically are you referring? To whom are they praying? Why are there poor people in third-world countries? What is the cause of their poverty? What's happening in five years?

 

[Reba]

If I said to toddler that you will die if you drink household domestic liquid. He ingored me and experiement his curiously. It´s my responsible to watch him and make sure that he won´t drink it. Everyone tempt their curious is a part of normal life. God choose to give Eve and Adam freewill. I choose to not give my toddler freewill. This is a difference.

Adam and Eve weren't toddlers.

Are you still going to control your sons' actions when they are adults?

With all due respect, I can see the difference on God´s personality between OT and NT. It seem to me that God feel what he did wrong to kill the people and decided to fix NT that he don´t kill the people anymore.

God's character did not change. The transition from OT to NT dispensations were the continuing process of God's eternal plan.

Yes we warned our children but didn´t kick them out of our house or kill them for their disobedience, don´t we?

Adam and Eve weren't children.

 

[Reba]

It´s scary... Can you image when I said to toddler... "Don´t touch household domestic chemical liquid? I can´t ...

But you aren't God, and Adam and Eve weren't toddlers.

 

[Reba]

...Interfere? Are you saying that we should not interfere if our children tempted their curious to hurt themselves or disobey us?

Are you going to interfere in your children's lives forever?

 

[Angel]

But I don´t kick them out of our house or kill them for their disobidence.

God did not kick Eve and Adam out of the house or kill them. He punished them just like we punished our children and the court system punishing those who disobey the laws.

 

[Angel]

It´s scary... Can you image when I said to toddler... "Don´t touch household domestic chemical liquid? I can´t ...

That has absolutely nothing to do with Adam and Eve as they weren't toddlers Lieblingie.


We shouldn't compare adults to toddlers.

 

[Angel]

Ah, it looks like Reba answered most of it, so there's no needed for me to repeat.

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

If God really love Eve and Adam then forgive them for their mistake for being tricked instead of kick them out of Eden Garden.

It´s God´s responsible for give Eve and Adam freewill to touch the forbidden fruit tree or not. Yes it´s his mistake to place the forbidden fruit tree and let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam.

Interfere? Are you saying that we should not interfere if our children tempted their curious to hurt themselves or disobey us?

Good, posting, you have said it better and I would have.