Is being deaf a disability or not?

I think most people in general have a fair grasp of reading body language consciously or not and many, to some degree, incorporate speechreading in everyday live communications, especially when talking in a loud, chaotic room. There have even been several studies on how -- surprisingly -- what you say is less important than how you say it. The following is from just one researcher in particular.

 
drphil said:
Having become bilaterally deaf- Dec/06- I haven't noticed any increase my speechreading ability. In actual fact there has been a decrease.
Way back in early 2007 while waiting for the Cochlear Implant process at Sunnybrook/Toronto- I actually took Speechreading at CHS. Results actual test 20% decline from previous test. Just my experience, of course.
Also, the Intro book made no mention that one should learn speechreading.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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Since your entire focus has been on having your hearing restored, and not appearing, in any way, to accept and adapt to deafness, that is no doubt the result of your own behavior in refusing to use the visual to adapt.
 
GrendelQ said:
I think most people in general have a fair grasp of reading body language consciously or not and many, to some degree, incorporate speechreading in everyday live communications, especially when talking in a loud, chaotic room. There have even been several studies on how -- surprisingly -- what you say is less important than how you say it. The following is from just one researcher in particular.

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Absolutely. Even the hearing gain a great degree of understanding of verbal communication from non-verbal cues. In the case of a verbal message and a non-verbal message being in contradiction, more value is attributed to the non-verbal cues in comprehension of the message. The hearing simpply do this unconsciously, where the deaf are aware of the need for non-verbal messages for understanding, and therefore, place a greater degree of focus on this.
 
BecLak said:
Most people who are natural speechreaders and who are good at using visual cues and reading body language are those who were born dhh/Deaf.

It is not something that can be taught, it is something that is mastered due to reliance. Yes, there are classes and courses out there but these are just making money for the sake of it.
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Exactly. Not so many years ago, when the average age of diagnosis for children born deaf was 3 yrs old, it was discovered that the vast majority of those children already had developed speech reading skills through natural adaptation to their deafness. That has also been cited as one of the reasons that parents did not pick up earlier on their children's deafness. They appeared to "hear" because they were responding to things, but they did not hear, they speech read for understanding and then responded appropriately.
 
drphil said:
Whether "deaf/Deaf/dhh" persons are "natural speech readers" is an interesting question- how does one "develop such skills"?

From my direct experience-very difficult to learn/practice re SpeechReading. The courses at Cdn Hearing Society/Toronto which are not taught in the school system- here in Toronto-to the best of my knowledge.

Visual cues are the mouth shapes which is quite visible in say " P/B/M" but not those down one's throat. Apparently that is why it is "difficult" to grasp. One must have some idea the context of the discussion as well. Right-pay attention. Some thoughts passed by CHS.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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Skills are developed through natural adaptation. However, in order for natural adaptation to be possible, one has to accept their deafness, and then begin to naturally learn to live a full life with that deafness. You, on the other hand, continually fight against your deafness. Therefore, the natural adaptation that is available to you has never been allowed to function as the result of your own attitudes and behaviors.

Visual cues are much much more than simply lip movements that represent phonemes or morphemes.
 
Well the fact I got a Cochlear Implant is my choice. I fit the criteria here in Ontario and successful-so far. No I didn't request that the "deaf/Deaf community" certify I was "deaf/Deaf". Too me- it was pretty obvious-silence. It happens everytime I disconnect my Implant.
Still waiting to find out about the NON PHYSICAL causation of deafness which I understand is maintained by the "deaf/Deaf community"-happens. Using ASL doesn't make one "deaf/Deaf"- I hope. Self defined "cultural" is another matter.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Wirelessly posted

jillio said:
BecLak said:
Most people who are natural speechreaders and who are good at using visual cues and reading body language are those who were born dhh/Deaf.

It is not something that can be taught, it is something that is mastered due to reliance. Yes, there are classes and courses out there but these are just making money for the sake of it.
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Exactly. Not so many years ago, when the average age of diagnosis for children born deaf was 3 yrs old, it was discovered that the vast majority of those children already had developed speech reading skills through natural adaptation to their deafness. That has also been cited as one of the reasons that parents did not pick up earlier on their children's deafness. They appeared to "hear" because they were responding to things, but they did not hear, they speech read for understanding and then responded appropriately.
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It was/is exactly how it was/is in my own experience.:)
:ty: Jillio.
 
drphil said:
Well the fact I got a Cochlear Implant is my choice. I fit the criteria here in Ontario and successful-so far. No I didn't request that the "deaf/Deaf community" certify I was "deaf/Deaf". Too me- it was pretty obvious-silence. It happens everytime I disconnect my Implant.
Still waiting to find out about the NON PHYSICAL causation of deafness which I understand is maintained by the "deaf/Deaf community"-happens. Using ASL doesn't make one "deaf/Deaf"- I hope. Self defined "cultural" is another matter.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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We are all very much aware of your choices as you have recited them to us ad nauseum. And your choices are exactly why you have such trouble understanding and accepting any perspective other than your own. You must defend your own perspective like a mother lion in order to justify your choices.:cool2:

However, just because your choices are the ones you claim to be satisfied with is not an indication that numerous others have made different choices and their choices are just as valid and just as important as yours is to you. You are still in the minority. The vast majority of deaf/Deaf do not have a CI nor do they seek to function as hearing people. For them, culture is of the utmost importance and is a valid reality. Get over yourself.
 
Wirelessly posted

drphil said:
Well the fact I got a Cochlear Implant is my choice. I fit the criteria here in Ontario and successful-so far. No I didn't request that the "deaf/Deaf community" certify I was "deaf/Deaf". Too me- it was pretty obvious-silence. It happens everytime I disconnect my Implant.
Still waiting to find out about the NON PHYSICAL causation of deafness which I understand is maintained by the "deaf/Deaf community"-happens. Using ASL doesn't make one "deaf/Deaf"- I hope. Self defined "cultural" is another matter.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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Visual communication is much more than sign language (although it is a major expression) - it is about scanning and taking in the full essence of a person's environment when interacting with another human being and the world around them. Just like the expression of literature and the arts can take a person to deeper realms of the imagination so visual communication can take a person to deeper realms of perception and understanding,taking you beyond it being just about 'me,myself,and I' - you are embracing the whole of humanity.
 
I understand out the total " Deaf/deaf population" only about 1 or 4/ 5 actually use ASL. The obvious question-why doesn't every "deaf/Deaf" person use ASL? I know some like me use their Cochlear Implant. Go back to Harlan Lane's comment way back in the early 90s- "Cochlear Implants instrument of genocide". More info on this. Michael Chorost's book-Rebuilt-2005.

Whether anyone has followed my route is up to whoever-their CHOICE! Obviously with the increasing use of Cochlear Implants the "deaf/deaf community" is decreasing in the USA. In other countries as well ?

As for your "gratuitous psychological analysis" I am NOT your client-remember.
Nice to know however your various comments suggest otherwise. Am I misreading you? I also note -the questions weren't answered. Enough to the next intramural exercise.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
I understand out the total " Deaf/deaf population" only about 1 or 4/ 5 actually use ASL. The obvious question-why doesn't every "deaf/Deaf" person use ASL? I know some like me use their Cochlear Implant. Go back to Harlan Lane's comment way back in the early 90s- "Cochlear Implants instrument of genocide". More info on this. Michael Chorost's book-Rebuilt-2005.

Whether anyone has followed my route is up to whoever-their CHOICE! Obviously with the increasing use of Cochlear Implants the "deaf/deaf community" is decreasing in the USA. In other countries as well ?

As for your "gratuitous psychological analysis" I am NOT your client-remember.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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You are still in the minority. Period.

No, you are not my client. Nor have I ever addressed you as one.
 
That is interesting re "visual" communication. leading to "deeper realms of perception". How does spoken communication fit into this supposition?
One must assume this "develops over extended time" with what level of education? Does music fit into this?

Is this what is called aesthetics?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
That is interesting re "visual" communication. leading to "deeper realms of perception". How does spoken communication fit into this supposition?
One must assume this "develops over extended time" with what level of education? Does music fit into this?

Is this what is called aesthetics?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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No, it is not want is called aesthetics. No, it is not dependent upon any level of education. Children are as capable of this form of perception as are adults. It has nothing to do with a "deeper" level, just use of all that is available to clarify perception.
 
Read post #189-seems to suggest otherwise.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Read post #189-seems to suggest otherwise.

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No it doesn't. Different does not = deeper. More does not = deeper. Deeper processing involves very specific neurological and psychological functions. We are not discussing deeper processing. We are discussing the common use of non-verbal cues in communication.
 
Gee is it a predominate characteristic that is easily picked Up? If so, why the many textbooks?
Does reality agree? As noted before-this is a computer screen where anything can be keyed-accurate irrelevant?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Gee is it a predominate characteristic that is easily picked Up? If so, why the many textbooks?
Does reality agree? As noted before-this is a computer screen where anything can be keyed-accurate irrelevant?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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You have so many area where your knowledge is completely lacking that is is difficult to know where to start. But I really don't see much use in even trying, because you are too close minded to learn anything anyway.
 
The above were questions -not definitive conclusions. Minor detail re "closed minded" which might suggest your "??? thinking"-- Correct?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
The above were questions -not definitive conclusions. Minor detail re "closed minded" which might suggest your "??? thinking"-- Correct?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
The above were questions -not definitive conclusions. Minor detail re "closed minded" which might suggest your "??? thinking"-- Correct?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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Like I said, no sense in even answering your questions. You are too closed minded to sythesize the answers into your knowledge base.
 
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