Irish law is crazy!

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stefan2832

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I'd be interested to know what the legal position is in other countries regarding this subject?

Here [ Ireland ] you are obliged to retreat if you are faced with an intruder in your home! If you do him any harm you will be charged with assault!
You have to wait for him to attack you before you can claim self-defence.

Also, what about this... You are not at home. A burglar breaks into your home. While ransacking your house he trips over something and injures himself. maybe it was a loose floorboard or your toolbox that you forgot to store away. He can now sue you!!

Is this the case in other countries??
 
stefan2832 said:
I'd be interested to know what the legal position is in other countries regarding this subject?

Here [ Ireland ] you are obliged to retreat if you are faced with an intruder in your home! If you do him any harm you will be charged with assault!
You have to wait for him to attack you before you can claim self-defence.

Also, what about this... You are not at home. A burglar breaks into your home. While ransacking your house he trips over something and injures himself. maybe it was a loose floorboard or your toolbox that you forgot to store away. He can now sue you!!

Is this the case in other countries??
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Same here in the States. It's bullshit.
 
It has been the case around here both ways. There have been cases, where a man shot the intruder upon entering the house and was warned not to proceed, he did, and the 86 y/o man shot him in the leg and had the police on the line at the same time. Bad luck for the intruder, he was sentenced to 15 years as a repeat offender and at the time of last arrest he was on parole after serving 10 years for the same charge. On the flip side, I have heard that a couple broke into the family's home, ransacked the place and as the girlfriend had dropped a glass, the boyfriend stepped in it and got all cut up. When they left, he went running through the cat's litter box and ended up with a nasty infection that ended with the amputation of the foot. The homeowners were sued and the intruder won the case.
 
KristinaB said:
It has been the case around here both ways. There have been cases, where a man shot the intruder upon entering the house and was warned not to proceed, he did, and the 86 y/o man shot him in the leg and had the police on the line at the same time. Bad luck for the intruder, he was sentenced to 15 years as a repeat offender and at the time of last arrest he was on parole after serving 10 years for the same charge. On the flip side, I have heard that a couple broke into the family's home, ransacked the place and as the girlfriend had dropped a glass, the boyfriend stepped in it and got all cut up. When they left, he went running through the cat's litter box and ended up with a nasty infection that ended with the amputation of the foot. The homeowners were sued and the intruder won the case.
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Depending which state it is. Florida... "Make my day!"

Other case: Intruder breaks in, owner kicks his ass.

Owner goes to jail not intruder for assault.
 
posts from hell said:
Depending which state it is. Florida... "Make my day!"

Other case: Intruder breaks in, owner kicks his ass.

Owner goes to jail not intruder for assault.
Click to expand...

Florida was the state with the 86 y/o man shooting the intuder. Missouri was the other.
 
To my knowledge, if an intruder is "trying" to break into ur home....wait until he gets inside...then you have every right to do whatever needs to be done to protect urself and ur property.....If you shoot/hurt someone outside the home then they can sue you....
 
rockin'robin said:
To my knowledge, if an intruder is "trying" to break into ur home....wait until he gets inside...then you have every right to do whatever needs to be done to protect urself and ur property.....If you shoot/hurt someone outside the home then they can sue you....
Click to expand...

Not always.
 
stefan2832 said:
I'd be interested to know what the legal position is in other countries regarding this subject?

Here [ Ireland ] you are obliged to retreat if you are faced with an intruder in your home! If you do him any harm you will be charged with assault!
You have to wait for him to attack you before you can claim self-defence.

Also, what about this... You are not at home. A burglar breaks into your home. While ransacking your house he trips over something and injures himself. maybe it was a loose floorboard or your toolbox that you forgot to store away. He can now sue you!!

Is this the case in other countries??
Click to expand...
So then do like we do in the USA. Shoot the bastard dead and then say he attacked you first. End of story.
 
Each state is different but Florida and Texas are infamous for "Castle Doctrine" law aka "Stand Your Ground" aka "Make My Day".

in most states - that law is limited to your household. recently Florida has extended that to car. If you were driving somewhere and you're getting carjacked, you are legally allowed to shoot him in self-defense. each state with Castle Doctrine is slightly different. Some requires verbal warning. Some doesn't. Some requires a certain parameter in order to justify it.

Now - here's an even more tricky law.... "Duty to Retreat" which is different from Castle Doctrine. In Castle Doctrine - you can just give a verbal warning and then shoot'em if you feel threatened. In fact - some states do allow you to shoot without warning as long as there's a sign post like "TRESPASSER WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT". However - in "Duty to Retreat", you must TRY to get away from the household and then announce your intent to use deadly force. You may shoot if you were threatened - such case where robber would run after you.

Sadly enough... firing a warning shot or brandishing your gun is illegal. This country does not make any sense anymore. You can easily get screwed over little fine-print. Whenever you're in self-defense situation, the cops will ask you what happened. You are NOT obliged to tell the story immediately. You may notify the officer that you will submit your statement at later date with your lawyer. No problem.

Contact your lawyer who specializes in firearm-related cases first before you talk to officer. I have 2 in my cellphone. the NRA hotline and NJ gun-specialized lawyer.
 
rockin'robin said:
To my knowledge, if an intruder is "trying" to break into ur home....wait until he gets inside...then you have every right to do whatever needs to be done to protect urself and ur property.....If you shoot/hurt someone outside the home then they can sue you....
Click to expand...

But the problem is you cannot protect yourself untill he attacks you. He gets to make to first move which is crazy considering he may be armed with a weapon. You cannot injure him to protect your property.:roll:
It's bloody crazy!

Rockdrummer gives good advice as far as I'm concerned!
 
Jiro's post is the reason I will load my shot gun that I use for defense in this following matter:
Bean Bag then Buck shot.
 
Jiro said:
Each state is different but Florida and Texas are infamous for "Castle Doctrine" law aka "Stand Your Ground" aka "Make My Day".

in most states - that law is limited to your household. recently Florida has extended that to car. If you were driving somewhere and you're getting carjacked, you are legally allowed to shoot him in self-defense. each state with Castle Doctrine is slightly different. Some requires verbal warning. Some doesn't. Some requires a certain parameter in order to justify it.

Now - here's an even more tricky law.... "Duty to Retreat" which is different from Castle Doctrine. In Castle Doctrine - you can just give a verbal warning and then shoot'em if you feel threatened. In fact - some states do allow you to shoot without warning as long as there's a sign post like "TRESPASSER WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT". However - in "Duty to Retreat", you must TRY to get away from the household and then announce your intent to use deadly force. You may shoot if you were threatened - such case where robber would run after you.

Sadly enough... firing a warning shot or brandishing your gun is illegal. This country does not make any sense anymore. You can easily get screwed over little fine-print. Whenever you're in self-defense situation, the cops will ask you what happened. You are NOT obliged to tell the story immediately. You may notify the officer that you will submit your statement at later date with your lawyer. No problem.

Contact your lawyer who specializes in firearm-related cases first before you talk to officer. I have 2 in my cellphone. the NRA hotline and NJ gun-specialized lawyer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Jiro!
 
rockin'robin said:
To my knowledge, if an intruder is "trying" to break into ur home....wait until he gets inside...then you have every right to do whatever needs to be done to protect urself and ur property.....If you shoot/hurt someone outside the home then they can sue you....
Click to expand...

I see that you're in Florida. Your gun laws is similar to "Wild West" concept. You have "No Retreat" Law, the Castle Doctrine, and now the recent one signed by Governor Jeb Bush - "Shoot First" aka popular term - "Shoot First, Ask Later." It extends your legal protection to public space/street. You do not have to wait for him to break into your home. Just shoot'em!

The law says - "the people who are under attack do not have to retreat before responding. They have the right to "meet force with force, including deadly force if they reasonably believe it is necessary to do so."

In short - You as law-abiding armed citizen are given a complete legal protection from civil lawsuit by thug and arrest/detention/prosecution by cops. :cool2:

There were several cases in Florida and Texas where the law-abiding citizens were brought to trial for "unnecessary homicide" because the anti-gun politicians want to make an example out of them by saying that they can EASILY run away and no lives will be lost. :blah: but guess what? The prosecutor lost. big time.

NO FUCKING JURY IS EVER GONNA CONVICT A LAW-ABIDING ARMED CITIZEN! :lol:
 
Jiro said:
NO FUCKING JURY IS EVER GONNA CONVICT A LAW-ABIDING ARMED CITIZEN! :lol:
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It did happen here recently. A farmer faced with an intruder shot him. But he then followed the injured man 100 yards up the road and shot him dead.
He was found guilty of murder as the prosecutor argued that when the man left his property there was no longer a threat.
BUT,the farmer was found not guilty when he appealed the case. He said he feared the guy would return and kill him so he was in fear of his life! This made it self-defence!
Thankfully the jury agreed, I think they were delighted to find a reason to acquit the farmer!
 
stefan2832 said:
It did happen here recently. A farmer faced with an intruder shot him. But he then followed the injured man 100 yards up the road and shot him dead.
He was found guilty of murder as the prosecutor argued that when the man left his property there was no longer a threat.
BUT,the farmer was found not guilty when he appealed the case. He said he feared the guy would return and kill him so he was in fear of his life! This made it self-defence!
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damn. what the farmer did - that was brutal but oh well. good to know that farmer was later acquitted but for me personally as an armed citizen - I do not condone this kind of thing where you chase after him and finish him off. It's vigilantism.

I have my principle so I will give an ample amount of verbal warning about my intent to use deadly force. If he's retreating, then I let him be. If he failed to comply, well I'm sorry and may God have mercy on him because I will fire twice in the chest and I'm deaf so I cannot call 911 quickly for him :)

I do not believe in "Duty to Retreat" but I will make every effort to avoid resorting to use of deadly force.
 
Jiro said:
damn. what the farmer did - that was brutal but oh well. good to know that farmer was later acquitted but for me personally as an armed citizen - I do not condone this kind of thing where you chase after him and finish him off. It's vigilantism.

I have my principle so I will give an ample amount of verbal warning about my intent to use deadly force. If he's retreating, then I let him be. If he failed to comply, well I'm sorry and may God have mercy on him because I will fire twice in the chest and I'm deaf so I cannot call 911 quickly for him :)

I do not believe in "Duty to Retreat" but I will make every effort to avoid resorting to use of deadly force.
Click to expand...

To be fair I think the farmer knew this guy. He was a real scumbag with a violent history of inflicting injurys on people. He once attacked and injured a cop using a slash hook. But due to another stupid piece of Irish law this evidence was not allowed to be heard by the first jury. All they heard was that he was a loving husband and father. Only after the trial were the papers allowed to reveal that he was a violent criminal with a long history of violence. If you are in court your past actions and crimes are not allowed to be brought up in case it has an influnce on the jury. Another stupid law!:roll:
 
stefan2832 said:
To be fair I think the farmer knew this guy. He was a real scumbag with a violent history of inflicting injurys on people. He once attacked and injured a cop using a slash hook. But due to another stupid piece of Irish law this evidence was not allowed to be heard by the first jury. All they heard was that he was a loving husband and father. Only after the trial were the papers allowed to reveal that he was a violent criminal with a long history of violence. If you are in court your past actions and crimes are not allowed to be brought up in case it has an influnce on the jury. Another stupid law!:roll:
Click to expand...

wow.... then the farmer has my blessing :mad2:
 
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