Introducing Myself...

Stefan P.

New Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
Hello, All. My name is Stefan, 51 years old, I am a hearing person, with no knowledge of sign languages, and I have a question relating to what might best be called the aesthetics of sign languages. (No, I am not a student, or writing an essay or article - I am merely and genuinely curious about this, and have thus far been unable to find any satisfactory answer elsewhere). Is this the right place/forum for me to ask my question? If not, do let me know. Looking forward to your replies. Thank you.
 
Last edited:
Let me add a little background: I am Austrian, but have lived in Jamaica for over 20 years, and so when a friend of mine recently alerted me to a youtube video of a couple performing Bob Marley's "One Love" in sign language, I was very intrigued. My friend and I agreed that, although neither of us knows sign language, it somehow seemed to give the song more depth and feeling than the mere spoken word. And this, in brief, is what started me thinking about the emotional & aesthetic reactions we have to languages, both sign languages and spoken ones...which, in some sense, is what my question is all about.
 
So, here goes:

Most hearing persons prefer the sound of some languages to that of others, regardless of whether or not they comprehend these languages. I, for example, much prefer to listen to an Italian speaker - whom I understand only vaguely - than to one who speaks in my native tongue, German; but I find neither language as delightful as the Polynesian one spoken in Hawaii, which I cannot comprehend at all.

My question is: does the same hold true for speakers of sign languages? It is my understanding that sign languages are every bit as varied as spoken ones and that, in consequence, a speaker of, let’s say, American Sign Language may find British Sign Language nigh unintelligible. But do speakers of one sign language ever look at those communicating in a different sign language, and think “Boy, I find the flow and rhythm and sequence & configuration of their hand & arm & torso & head gestures and movements & accompanying expressions far more pleasing, more charming, more graceful, more beautiful than my own”?
Can you or anyone else enlighten me?
 
So, here goes:

Most hearing persons prefer the sound of some languages to that of others, regardless of whether or not they comprehend these languages. I, for example, much prefer to listen to an Italian speaker - whom I understand only vaguely - than to one who speaks in my native tongue, German; but I find neither language as delightful as the Polynesian one spoken in Hawaii, which I cannot comprehend at all.

My question is: does the same hold true for speakers of sign languages? It is my understanding that sign languages are every bit as varied as spoken ones and that, in consequence, a speaker of, let’s say, American Sign Language may find British Sign Language nigh unintelligible. But do speakers of one sign language ever look at those communicating in a different sign language, and think “Boy, I find the flow and rhythm and sequence & configuration of their hand & arm & torso & head gestures and movements & accompanying expressions far more pleasing, more charming, more graceful, more beautiful than my own”?
Can you or anyone else enlighten me?


welcome to allDeaf

and yes people will have their individual likes with taste and flavor of Sign language just like hearie languages..
 
welcome to allDeaf

and yes people will have their individual likes with taste and flavor of Sign language just like hearie languages..

Hi there, thanks for the welcome, and thanks for taking the time to reply to my question. May I ask you a quick follow-up question: Would you say that there are sign languages which are widely acknowledged to be, for instance, particularly passionate, or more passionate than others, in the same or similar way that a great number of hearing people find that Italian sounds more passionate than other languages? Or, a sign language which seems to many people more soulful than others, in the way that the sound of Russian strikes many, including me, as more soulful than that of German?
 
Last edited:
indeed that's a personal preference, of people's individual desires and likes...
for sure though..
 
I can't really give my opinion here because I have not really looked into other sign languages. But I am hard of hearing and can't stand the way people speak French hahaha
 
ASL is (gorgeously, poetically) kinesthetically aesthetic. There's a reason why Nyle DiMarco could rock modeling and dancing, blowing past his hearing competitors.

I have leveraged this artistry to my benefit many times. Salsa, anyone?
 
ASL is (gorgeously, poetically) kinesthetically aesthetic. There's a reason why Nyle DiMarco could rock modeling and dancing, blowing past his hearing competitors.

I have leveraged this artistry to my benefit many times. Salsa, anyone?

Hello there, Muse, and thank you for your reply. My initial question has now been conclusively answered. And this answer - that deaf persons appreciate the different aesthetic qualities of different sign languages as much as hearing persons do with spoken ones - does not surprise me. The capacity & perhaps even the need to appreciate things -including languages - for their beauty, their charm, their elegance (although surely found to varying degrees in both the deaf and the hearing) is, after all, an innate human trait. Still, it was very helpful & instructive to see it confirmed, by those who are in-the-know. All the best. Stefan
 
Stefan, I'm glad I could help out a little. Your question was a fantastic one and I appreciate you making me think. Might I inquire as to what got you curious about the nature of aesthetic appreciation?

And please forgive my poor manners. Welcome to the forum :) It is a pleasure!
 
Stefan, I'm glad I could help out a little. Your question was a fantastic one and I appreciate you making me think. Might I inquire as to what got you curious about the nature of aesthetic appreciation?

And please forgive my poor manners. Welcome to the forum :) It is a pleasure!

Likewise. Speaking generally, my interest in aesthetics (and languages) goes back a long time, to when I studied Philosophy at Cambridge. And although I ended up focusing my attention on Mathematical Logic - for the simple reason that this branch of Philosophy struck me as less speculative than the other branches, like Aesthetics, Metaphysics, Philosophy of Mind and so on - I nonetheless have always continued to enjoy thinking about the latter in my idler hours.
My more specific interest in whether & how deaf persons appreciate the aesthetics of sign languages was the result of two (entirely separate) conversations I had with two friends: the one friend told me that he had recently listened to a folk song, sung in a language he did not speak, so that - in a sense - all parts of that song appeared as nonsense to him. But certain bits of the song gave him the distinct impression of being nonsense even in their original language (the sort of stuff that is best translated as "hey-nonny-nonny" and the like). He wondered on what his impression might have been based (his ulterior motive for asking the question was speculations about how babies learn to talk). This got me to thinking about Hawaiian, a language I do not understand at all & which I know of only through the lovely music of the Hawaiian singer Iz. Hawaiian words & sentences sound entirely like nonsense to my ears, yet somehow give me the distinct impression of being meaningful in their original tongue. And this in turn, because I find Hawaiian so delightful to listen to, led me to think about the aesthetic qualities of different spoken languages.
My other friend, as I wrote above, had earlier alerted me to a video of a couple performing Bob Marley's "One Love" in sign language. Neither my friend nor I can sign, but she & I agreed that performing this song in sign language seemed to give it a greater depth, more feeling, than the merely spoken version has.
And these two separate conversations somehow merged in my mind, leading me to wonder about - I repeat myself - whether & how deaf persons appreciate the aesthetics of different sign languages.
I always assumed that the answer would be what it turned out to be. Because, quite apart from my belief that all humans, deaf and hearing, share the same innate ability & need to appreciate things for their beauty, there was also the fact that my second friend and I were quite able to appreciate the beauty of sign language. And if we, as non-signers, see the beauty in sign language, then surely those who are fluent in it do, too. And do so to a greater degree, with much more insight & specificity. Which you & others have now confirmed.
There is, however, another aspect to sign languages - and how deaf persons react to different ones - which intrigued me. It is this: it seems to me that the opportunities to compare languages are likely to be somewhat more limited for deaf persons than for hearing ones. Sign languages, being visual forms of communication, would seem to require the visual presence of another speaker; i.e. a person I can see, standing next or near to me; or else seeing that person on TV. Spoken languages, by contrast, seem to offer further possibilities for comparison: one can listen to a speaker in person, see them on TV, but one can also listen to them on the radio, on CDs and on other auditory media. It is even possible to piece together the approximate sound of a spoken language one is unfamiliar with through the written word, provided that this language is sufficiently similar to a language one already knows & is a language which shares the same alphabetical notation.
Would you say that this draws an accurate picture? Or am I way off the mark?
Anyway, forgive me for rambling on. I have surely taken up too much of your time already. With best regards. Stefan
 
Last edited:
Likewise. Speaking generally, my interest in aesthetics (and languages) goes back a long time, to when I studied Philosophy at Cambridge. And although I ended up focusing my attention on Mathematical Logic - for the simple reason that this branch of Philosophy struck me as less speculative than the other branches, like Aesthetics, Metaphysics, Philosophy of Mind and so on - I nonetheless have always continued to enjoy thinking about the latter in my idler hours.
My more specific interest in whether & how deaf persons appreciate the aesthetics of sign languages was the result of two (entirely separate) conversations I had with two friends: the one friend told me that he had recently listened to a folk song, sung in a language he did not speak, so that - in a sense - all parts of that song appeared as nonsense to him. But certain bits of the song gave him the distinct impression of being nonsense even in their original language (the sort of stuff that is best translated as "hey-nonny-nonny" and the like). He wondered on what his impression might have been based (his ulterior motive for asking the question was speculations about how babies learn to talk). This got me to thinking about Hawaiian, a language I do not understand at all & which I know of only through the lovely music of the Hawaiian singer Iz. Hawaiian words & sentences sound entirely like nonsense to my ears, yet somehow give me the distinct impression of being meaningful in their original tongue. And this in turn, because I find Hawaiian so delightful to listen to, led me to think about the aesthetic qualities of different spoken languages.
My other friend, as I wrote above, had earlier alerted me to a video of a couple performing Bob Marley's "One Love" in sign language. Neither my friend nor I can sign, but she & I agreed that performing this song in sign language seemed to give it a greater depth, more feeling, than the merely spoken version has.
And these two separate conversations somehow merged in my mind, leading me to wonder about - I repeat myself - whether & how deaf persons appreciate the aesthetics of different sign languages.
I always assumed that the answer would be what it turned out to be. Because, quite apart from my belief that all humans, deaf and hearing, share the same innate ability & need to appreciate things for their beauty, there was also the fact that my second friend and I were quite able to appreciate the beauty of sign language. And if we, as non-signers, see the beauty in sign language, then surely those who are fluent in it do, too. And do so to a greater degree, with much more insight & specificity. Which you & others have now confirmed.
There is, however, another aspect to sign languages - and how deaf persons react to different ones - which intrigued me. It is this: it seems to me that the opportunities to compare languages are likely to be somewhat more limited for deaf persons than for hearing ones. Sign languages, being visual forms of communication, would seem to require the visual presence of another speaker; i.e. a person I can see, standing next or near to me; or else seeing that person on TV. Spoken languages, by contrast, seem to offer further possibilities for comparison: one can listen to a speaker in person, see them on TV, but one can also listen to them on the radio, on CDs and on other auditory media. It is even possible to piece together the approximate sound of a spoken language one is unfamiliar with through the written word, provided that this language is sufficiently similar to a language one already knows & is a language which shares the same alphabetical notation.
Would you say that this draws an accurate picture? Or am I way off the mark?
Anyway, forgive me for rambling on. I have surely taken up too much of your time already. With best regards. Stefan


Stefan, I have a whole bunch of thoughts on this. Gimme a day or so to put them together.
 
Welcome, Stefan...I enjoy languages, too

Hello, dogmom. I take it from your handle that, apart from languages, you also like & enjoy dogs? If so, that's another thing we would have in common. We have 7 dogs. Three small pet dogs, and four large yard dogs.
 
Hi again, Stefan, yes I have Rotties and volunteer in training and behavior modification at a local animal sheletr
 
Back
Top