Interesting article about deaf culture

Actually, that dissection was a benefit to the deaf. The language of ASL would never have been recognized as a complete language in and of itself that is compelely separate from the spoken language of the majority culture.

This is true, for sure.

But, Grummer has a point. Studying signed languages is the vogue thing in linguistic research these days. Everyone wants a piece of the action because studying signed languages, especially new an emerging ones (like in the case of Nicaraguan SL) gives valuable insight into the nature of linguistic evolution and the mechanics of language in general. The problem is that 90% of the linguists who study signed languages do not even know sign language! Many have a basic familiarity, but I'd say only a tiny minority, aside from those who are Deaf/native signers of ASL, are fluent enough to have a smooth conversation with a native signer. When I attended the TISLR conference last October, 99% of the hearing presenters gave their presentations in verbal language. They also answered questions from the audience, regardless of if they were signed or vocalized, in verbal language. (There were interpreters, of course.)

One consequence of this is that the language is getting over analyzed from a technical standpoint. I believe that non-signing ASL academics are introducing some false observations about ASL. Another consequence, and this is something that the linguists from Gaulladet presented on, is that the Deaf rarely benefit from these research studies. The information that is gathered is all technical in nature and only meant for other linguists. Why is there not a strong movement among academic linguists to promote ASL among deaf children? Why do they not advocate against mainstreaming? Why are they not out there protesting the closure of deaf schools? You'd think these academics would be some of the first to help protect their subject matter.

I find it to be a disgusting appropriation. Not all linguists who study ASL are like this, but there are a lot.
 
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This is true, for sure.

But, Grummer has a point. Studying signed languages is the vogue thing in linguistic research these days. Everyone wants a piece of the action because studying signed languages, especially new an emerging ones (like in the case of Nicaraguan SL) gives valuable insight into the nature of linguistic evolution and the mechanics of language in general. The problem is that 90% of the linguists who study signed languages do not even know sign language! Many have a basic familiarity, but I'd say only a tiny minority, aside from those who are Deaf/native signers of ASL, are fluent enough to have a smooth conversation with a native signer. When I attended the TISLR conference last October, 99% of the hearing presenters gave their presentations in verbal language. They also answered questions from the audience, regardless of if they were signed or vocalized, in verbal language. (There were interpreters, of course.)

One consequence of this is that the language is getting over analyzed from a technical standpoint. I believe that non-signing ASL academics are introducing some false observations about ASL. Another consequence, and this is something that the linguists from Gaulladet presented on, is that the Deaf rarely benefit from these research studies. The information that is gathered is all technical in nature and only meant for other linguists. Why is there not a strong movement among academic linguists to promote ASL among deaf children? Why do they not advocate against mainstreaming? Why are they not out there protesting the closure of deaf schools? You'd think these academics would be some of the first to help protect their subject matter.

I find it to be a disgusting appropriation. Not all linguists who study ASL are like this, but there are a lot.

No, not all. Stokoe had a proficient use of ASL, and he employed deaf research assistants in his work with ASL. A lot of the current research is being done at Berkely under the tutelage of deaf Ph.D'.s But this is not the case everywhere, I will have to agree.
 
No, not all. Stokoe had a proficient use of ASL, and he employed deaf research assistants in his work with ASL. A lot of the current research is being done at Berkely under the tutelage of deaf Ph.D'.s But this is not the case everywhere, I will have to agree.

Oh yes, Bill Stokoe opened the doors and did so much for Deaf culture and ASL. Absolutely, without a doubt. But that was 50 years ago. A lot has changed since then. Stokoe was viewed as some radical and shunned by most of the linguistic community for a long time. Now, of course, they're all clambering over his grave to get to the hottest new sign language research group.

Berkeley? I wasn't aware of that. I did not see anyone from Berkeley at TISLR. There's a lot of interesting and insightful stuff coming out of the Southern California area thanks to UCSD (where Carol Padden and Tom Humphries teach), CSU-Northridge, and the Salk Institute.
 
To add to Rachel Rene, yes it will take a major reversal in mainstream attitudes before Deaf people are treated the way they should be, but this reversal of attitudes is not limited to the Deaf. Society in general needs to let go of this idea that disabilities and people who are different from the collectively decided agreement of what is normal are somehow limited, abnormal, weak, bad, etc.

Human differences ought to be celebrated, not compartmentalized and dissected.
Agreed! On the other hand, I do think that sort of thinking can negate the experiance of kids and people with profound or severe issues. Like yeah, those kids and people are cute and all....but nobody can't argue that yes....a kid who is eternally a baby or toddler isn't limited in what they can do.
 
snicker too but soon afterwards i worry it just become a 'fad' a cultural understanding that has no real substance in policy.real life terms...


in bolded parts, i REALLY like this ... but this illustrates the point that while problem is much more complex than what "professionals" in deaf-industry workers likes to admit...Alex is also saying that this CAN and NEED to be shown on the table what exactly these are, in order to get society which ecncompassing both hearing and deaf to know exactly what can be done and have it on table as face value in an honest way. This is exactly the kind of message for Proponents of Cultural Modelist need to take in, in order to see the relevance of the Disability Social Model.



Again, Deaf languages, shouldn't be dissected by so-called 'caring' linguisitic researchers....
just my 2 cents

Been a long time since AD, short on time nowdays, so excuse me if I ask something everyone here know, but curious what the Disability Social Model is, why is that better to define deaf people as a group? Can one use both disability and cultural, dependent on situation and circumstances or must one choose one of them?
 
Been a long time since AD, short on time nowdays, so excuse me if I ask something everyone here know, but curious what the Disability Social Model is, why is that better to define deaf people as a group? Can one use both disability and cultural, dependent on situation and circumstances or must one choose one of them?

I will leave it to Grum to answer your question, but wanted to say it's good to see you back!
 
Been a long time since AD, short on time nowdays, so excuse me if I ask something everyone here know, but curious what the Disability Social Model is, why is that better to define deaf people as a group? Can one use both disability and cultural, dependent on situation and circumstances or must one choose one of them?

You can do both. The thing is with Deaf people our hearing levels are Deaf to the CORE. It is our identity! It's like idnetifying as GLB or black or whatver.
 
hi, been reading this thread quickly, and yes Id get back but right now very busy...expect a reply soon later in the week
but also would like to say Alex's post is right on the nail too, one that 'confirmed by worst fears' i mean I 'didn't know this BUT i always had strongly suspected this is the case and found out my hunch was right...so thanks for 'removing my paranoia" Alex lol...and yes I would very much liken to see this sort of critique to elaborate and be developed (this is part of my long term agenda on my future academic work), something that we all should be aware of AND that we all should speak up against for it is about what ir RIGHTFULLY OURS. That is to say it is not Hearing teachers, not hearing reserchers, not Hearing interpreters, and certainly not Hearing policy makers to say what is our needs, We bloody say it, Not them. (sorry Jill) I know you're hearing BUT you're not the 'think Hearie" you are truely one of our freind. So Jill is an exception, and Id like to say there ARE d/Deaf who are probably just as dangerous as those controlling-hearies. Too much to say right now, but i will come back later in the week OK. with some explanation about the two different models and how theese interact.
 
You can do both. The thing is with Deaf people our hearing levels are Deaf to the CORE. It is our identity! It's like idnetifying as GLB or black or whatver.

Make sense. I imagine when I declare I belong to deaf people, I'm ethnic deaf, but when I play with the rules created by a society, I might Id as disabled to get equal rights. That way, I can both be ethnically deaf and just a disabled person, the same way a non signer easily become so called disabled when that peron is among signers who have learned to use their visual senses. Postmodernism have it's advantages?
 
This is great and an informative one, an article that must read by everyone to understand those who had this kind of disability. I hope to see one tackling about the Braille reading for the vision impaired individual.:ty:
 
I argue that oppression is much more than “linguistic oppression” which cultural advocates proposes, it is real societal marginalization, so hence it requires a re-think. Below are various snippets of my earlier works, pasted together and I have tried to keep this short as possible. This is just to provide a glance at distinction between cultural model and social model and how it may interact to take the d/Deaf people’s political interest in affirming the needs of Deaf Rights to the next level. This requires a reconsideration of Deaf people’s matters and thinking of how hearing people might listen to us. I held back a lot and I have my reasons, but I believe this post may shed some light. These below are various snippets from my earlier work.

For starters, the clash between deafness and disability has forced d/Deaf people who consider disability to be something we 'own' as a problem, which doesn’t belong to anyone else but ourselves. And similarly, hearing people thinks we ‘own’ deafness as a problem (be it disability ‘commonly mistaken as visually seen as a “wheelchair” problem’ notion or educationally stunted because of inability to hear/speak spoke languages), these shared common grounds, - ignorance.
This gives rise to hearing people to rationalise their unfamiliarity for what we want, instead they politely ascertain to help us on our 'needs'. That needs are usually fit nicely to how hearing people prefer what treatment we receive. No wonder we are still having problems because much of what happens to us continues to create and re-create the misery of our existence simply because we are not getting exactly what we require.
So, I look beyond the issue of access to education to an analysis of the group and power relations that exist between Deaf and hearing people in schools, universities, and the broader community. Deaf people have traditionally been positioned, labeled, and constructed as "disabled" by educational and other powerful societal institutions. The issues of power, control, and legitimacy are central to language practices in education. Deliberately or unwittingly, language practices are political acts that serve the interests of particular groups. In this way, English is legitimized and perpetuated in deaf education.
We already know that Deaf people are taught to consider deafness is not an impairment, but as a cultural difference for which follows the linguistic mindset , which is fine, but it has limits. Let’s go back to impairment, and see the distinction between impairment and disability.
Impairment: Lack or malfunction of sensory, cognitive or physiological structures of the body or mind. Disability: is the disadvantage caused by the social, economic, political and environmental factors which restrict and/or exclude impaired people from participating in their communities. (Adapted from UPIAS, 1976)
This means that Disability is NOT something people have (ie “People with Disabilities”), it IS something which happens to people. From this standpoint, it follows that disability is a political problem, it is created by society; so it is located in society and social organisations. Also, Disability exists as a problem generated by society that is structured & organised by & for nondisabled people and underpinned by nondisabled values. So this covers both the infrastructure and superstructure of society. Hence this means, disability is imposed on those living with impairment in a disabling and disableist society, and that disabled people experience disability as social oppression and powerlessness- hence ‘disabled’ really means “Not allowed to do” or discouraged to do because we are a less preferred people (society’s vogue view likes to use ‘individuals’ which ‘sounds’ nicer but really it serves to separate us from ‘our social problems’ into a box ‘which supposedly on belong to individuals AS individual own misguided “faults”, not Society’s faults.
Now, to fuse in deafness into disability reads like this; Put more radically, “it is not [d/Deaf] disabled people who need examining but able-bodied society; it is not a case of educating [deaf and hearing people] disabled and able-bodied people for integration, but of fighting institutional disablism; it is not disability relations which should be the field for study but disablism.” (Oliver, 1992, p. 112) (my italics). In plainer terms, society has not accepted that is society that has to change and accept people not the other way around. This is what Deaf politics forego. (Davis,2008).
We require social and structural change to society, its organisation and values. This means we need to be more critical, to establish a dialogue which seeks to accomplish a means to constitute the distinction between not understanding and being included in the hearing world, and indeed what is hearing culture. Equal attention to balance Deaf culture and hearing culture is needed. Any desire to establish any grounds to facilitate negotiation that could superlatively benefit both deaf and hearing culture.
This approach may push forward the Deaf political movement (not emphasising culture, but politics, although culture is important but for stake of this post, put it aside) but ownership of research interests, communication standards for hearing society to adopt, but let d/Deaf people regulate this. However, for proliferation, a difficulty in this premise remains since the lack of a working dialogue disallows negotiation for equity. This is certain to say d/Deaf people are not conscientised in political sense, thus lacking the ability to see the operation of power in people and society. Stark awakening of the underlying premise of the current mould of social policy is desired, cultural model gets swamped by linguists and petty council regulators, effectively leaving the current mode of deaf education intact.
Although, it should be acknowledged that the cultural model’s strength lies in the formality which provide a way to avoid thinking deafness as a confused perception as a language with speech and challenges the assumption that deafness is a barrier to learning. This view holds true only if we assume that communication, language, and normality can be achieved only through speech. And also the cultural model maintains that oppression also exist in the ab¬sence of overt discrimination, occurring in forms of exploitation (I think linguists does this too, for they fetishize sign languages as quint research topics -and nothing more (I believe Alex thinks so too)), marginalization, powerlessness, cultural imperialism.
It was somewhat exchanged for support of "deaf culture” over “deaf individuals". Whist in reality the deaf individuals are subjected to uneven playing field in society which takes little or no consideration for inclusion which would have otherwise deem to counteract against marginalisation, alienation and disenfranchisement. The 'minority rights' agenda is contrasted with disabled people's struggles for the legitimating of 'new' disability discourses has backfired within a framework relative to issues of cultural incompatibility. More so, the problem posed above maintains that relying solely on the form of conduit in one of the primary channels through linguistic mobilisation to overcome one of cultural resistance against the norm, should be reinforced with political resistance.
I think I shall leave it at that.
Peace.
 
:wave: Grummer I think what you wrote was so important I'm gonna review it again but I'm glad you put it up here.

One of the things I think I see you discussing is the need for Deaf leadership in it's own context, as opposed to Deaf people "included" in hearing organizations?
A new framework, as opposed to expanding a precluding framework?
 
:wave: Grummer I think what you wrote was so important I'm gonna review it again but I'm glad you put it up here.
One of the things I think I see you discussing is the need for Deaf leadership in it's own context, as opposed to Deaf people "included" in hearing organizations?
A new framework, as opposed to expanding a precluding framework?
Good question, depending what you meant by 'included' , id' say some deaf so called leaders have the 'language' but they have the ideation of success in the hearing mould, they behave like hearies, just like women in politics - they are shit, just like men, say when you think about it, its like they're not really feminist at all, not one bit, also they conform so much -hair cut, appropriate dress...also it has been said they 'used' women leaders to get their way as their soft-spoken feminine voices are 'more trustworthy' so in turn they get more done, like Thatcher in England 'lead' through unfavourable economic times, ordering cuts, those women’s voice of 'trust' gets things done. Handpicking 'model leaders' actually pacify the masses whose are 'more awareness' so as part of dealing with this, this 'placing' of 'wonderful' new modern age leader 'of difference' in bid to show we are all the same when clearly it is not true, (think Obama here too) is really a new tactic to placate anxious , even angry people of America in times of being on the brink of Bankruptcy.

To answer your question, "on the spur of moment" i would say, to create an entirely new framework, and start having Deaf deciding who's good enough as interpreters, whos good to teacher, etc etc

not other way around...
radical i know and probably even seem unworkable, its bullshit if they say so....after all how come nothing has changed?
 
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Good question, depending what you meant by 'included' , id' say some deaf so called leaders have the 'language' but they have the ideation of success in the hearing mould, they behave like hearies, just like women in politics - they are shit, just like men, say when you think about it, its like they're not really feminist at all, not one bit, also they conform so much -hair cut, appropriate dress...also it has been said they 'used' women leaders to get their way as their soft-spoken feminine voices are 'more trustworthy' so in turn they get more done, like Thatcher in England 'lead' through unfavourable economic times, ordering cuts, those women’s voice of 'trust' gets things done. Handpicking 'model leaders' actually pacify the masses whose are 'more awareness' so as part of dealing with this, this 'placing' of 'wonderful' new modern age leader 'of difference' in bid to show we are all the same when clearly it is not true, (think Obama here too) is really a new tactic to placate anxious , even angry people of America in times of being on the brink of Bankruptcy.

To answer your question, "on the spur of moment" i would say, to create an entirely new framework, and start having Deaf deciding who's good enough as interpreters, whos good to teacher, etc etc

not other way around...
radical i know and probably even seem unworkable, its bullshit if they say so....after all how come nothing has changed?

Will respond to your post before this one, when more time on hands. It's interesting to read about which approach that is of most benefit.

Have you read the thick deafhood book by Paddy Ladd? What you describe here reminds me of his description of deaf audist leaders in UK deaf clubs. He use the concept of colonialism to explains this. Think it was Harlan Lane who came up with deaf colonies. Deaf community is colonised by hearing people and their values. Noam Chomsky also have some interesting ideas about how a specific mindset rule the society, by recruiting only those who adhere to that mindset.
 
I argue that oppression is much more than “linguistic oppression” which cultural advocates proposes, it is real societal marginalization, so hence it requires a re-think. Below are various snippets of my earlier works, pasted together and I have tried to keep this short as possible. This is just to provide a glance at distinction between cultural model and social model and how it may interact to take the d/Deaf people’s political interest in affirming the needs of Deaf Rights to the next level. This requires a reconsideration of Deaf people’s matters and thinking of how hearing people might listen to us. I held back a lot and I have my reasons, but I believe this post may shed some light. These below are various snippets from my earlier work.

For starters, the clash between deafness and disability has forced d/Deaf people who consider disability to be something we 'own' as a problem, which doesn’t belong to anyone else but ourselves. And similarly, hearing people thinks we ‘own’ deafness as a problem (be it disability ‘commonly mistaken as visually seen as a “wheelchair” problem’ notion or educationally stunted because of inability to hear/speak spoke languages), these shared common grounds, - ignorance.
This gives rise to hearing people to rationalise their unfamiliarity for what we want, instead they politely ascertain to help us on our 'needs'. That needs are usually fit nicely to how hearing people prefer what treatment we receive. No wonder we are still having problems because much of what happens to us continues to create and re-create the misery of our existence simply because we are not getting exactly what we require.
So, I look beyond the issue of access to education to an analysis of the group and power relations that exist between Deaf and hearing people in schools, universities, and the broader community. Deaf people have traditionally been positioned, labeled, and constructed as "disabled" by educational and other powerful societal institutions. The issues of power, control, and legitimacy are central to language practices in education. Deliberately or unwittingly, language practices are political acts that serve the interests of particular groups. In this way, English is legitimized and perpetuated in deaf education.
We already know that Deaf people are taught to consider deafness is not an impairment, but as a cultural difference for which follows the linguistic mindset , which is fine, but it has limits. Let’s go back to impairment, and see the distinction between impairment and disability.
Impairment: Lack or malfunction of sensory, cognitive or physiological structures of the body or mind. Disability: is the disadvantage caused by the social, economic, political and environmental factors which restrict and/or exclude impaired people from participating in their communities. (Adapted from UPIAS, 1976)
This means that Disability is NOT something people have (ie “People with Disabilities”), it IS something which happens to people. From this standpoint, it follows that disability is a political problem, it is created by society; so it is located in society and social organisations. Also, Disability exists as a problem generated by society that is structured & organised by & for nondisabled people and underpinned by nondisabled values. So this covers both the infrastructure and superstructure of society. Hence this means, disability is imposed on those living with impairment in a disabling and disableist society, and that disabled people experience disability as social oppression and powerlessness- hence ‘disabled’ really means “Not allowed to do” or discouraged to do because we are a less preferred people (society’s vogue view likes to use ‘individuals’ which ‘sounds’ nicer but really it serves to separate us from ‘our social problems’ into a box ‘which supposedly on belong to individuals AS individual own misguided “faults”, not Society’s faults.
Now, to fuse in deafness into disability reads like this; Put more radically, “it is not [d/Deaf] disabled people who need examining but able-bodied society; it is not a case of educating [deaf and hearing people] disabled and able-bodied people for integration, but of fighting institutional disablism; it is not disability relations which should be the field for study but disablism.” (Oliver, 1992, p. 112) (my italics). In plainer terms, society has not accepted that is society that has to change and accept people not the other way around. This is what Deaf politics forego. (Davis,2008).
We require social and structural change to society, its organisation and values. This means we need to be more critical, to establish a dialogue which seeks to accomplish a means to constitute the distinction between not understanding and being included in the hearing world, and indeed what is hearing culture. Equal attention to balance Deaf culture and hearing culture is needed. Any desire to establish any grounds to facilitate negotiation that could superlatively benefit both deaf and hearing culture.
This approach may push forward the Deaf political movement (not emphasising culture, but politics, although culture is important but for stake of this post, put it aside) but ownership of research interests, communication standards for hearing society to adopt, but let d/Deaf people regulate this. However, for proliferation, a difficulty in this premise remains since the lack of a working dialogue disallows negotiation for equity. This is certain to say d/Deaf people are not conscientised in political sense, thus lacking the ability to see the operation of power in people and society. Stark awakening of the underlying premise of the current mould of social policy is desired, cultural model gets swamped by linguists and petty council regulators, effectively leaving the current mode of deaf education intact.
Although, it should be acknowledged that the cultural model’s strength lies in the formality which provide a way to avoid thinking deafness as a confused perception as a language with speech and challenges the assumption that deafness is a barrier to learning. This view holds true only if we assume that communication, language, and normality can be achieved only through speech. And also the cultural model maintains that oppression also exist in the ab¬sence of overt discrimination, occurring in forms of exploitation (I think linguists does this too, for they fetishize sign languages as quint research topics -and nothing more (I believe Alex thinks so too)), marginalization, powerlessness, cultural imperialism.
It was somewhat exchanged for support of "deaf culture” over “deaf individuals". Whist in reality the deaf individuals are subjected to uneven playing field in society which takes little or no consideration for inclusion which would have otherwise deem to counteract against marginalisation, alienation and disenfranchisement. The 'minority rights' agenda is contrasted with disabled people's struggles for the legitimating of 'new' disability discourses has backfired within a framework relative to issues of cultural incompatibility. More so, the problem posed above maintains that relying solely on the form of conduit in one of the primary channels through linguistic mobilisation to overcome one of cultural resistance against the norm, should be reinforced with political resistance.
I think I shall leave it at that.
Peace.
I agree with most of this. Is this what WFD aims for when they are focusing mostly on the “Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities” at the moment? What you are saying is important to not forget.

My English is far from top, so not sure if you already mentioned it in this post, but focusing solely on disability can be a disadvantage, too. Most disability organizations are fighting to get out of institutions(mainstreaming), while deaf people mostly want to stay in institutions(different culture and language).
A minor note; labeling all hearing people with a limited mindset as “hearing” can be a bit confusing, as deaf people themselves can be audist, too, while some hearing people aren’t?

Thanks for sharing thoughts with us!
 
I agree with most of this. Is this what WFD aims for when they are focusing mostly on the “Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities” at the moment? What you are saying is important to not forget.

My English is far from top, so not sure if you already mentioned it in this post, but focusing solely on disability can be a disadvantage, too. Most disability organizations are fighting to get out of institutions(mainstreaming), while deaf people mostly want to stay in institutions(different culture and language).
A minor note; labeling all hearing people with a limited mindset as “hearing” can be a bit confusing, as deaf people themselves can be audist, too, while some hearing people aren’t?

Thanks for sharing thoughts with us!

WFD, isnt aiming for this. Yes d/Deaf people can be audist, or even Deafist. For sake of arguing the thesis, by convention you dont go leeway so much to say 'not all hearing people...' we already know this, it is important not to get sidetracked with "reality" afterall the reality we have is clearly undesirable...hence this 'stance' to say hearing, deaf etc

it is old thinking to perceive disability as fighting to get out of mainstream...not enitrely true...

personally, and academically i dont like "persons with disabiltiies' it is a flawed term, Disabled people is better, because it better reflect the theme which states society labels and disables us....'people with disabilities' seems at first runs like 'oh they are people first, then disabilities' but a closer look reads out like , they have an issues, not us, not me, and 'disabilities being added on with a 'with; reads out like, a physical, or intellectual flaw that belongs to them 'not us', they are the mistfortunes...etc this sort of mindset....yuck..
and yes as Deaf views are often mistakened for a "so called wants" to go on their own as a cultural group, but it should be made more aware that the colonialism persists to this day, that 'leaders' are Deaf, and it gets worse when it is colonised by hearing peoples values..but again this whole thinking is still in process of 'thinking' time is changing and the ideas "we need", needs to keep ahead of the game, not easy.
 
WFD, isnt aiming for this. Yes d/Deaf people can be audist, or even Deafist. For sake of arguing the thesis, by convention you dont go leeway so much to say 'not all hearing people...' we already know this, it is important not to get sidetracked with "reality" afterall the reality we have is clearly undesirable...hence this 'stance' to say hearing, deaf etc
Ok, society is ruled by men, whites, hearings values. Sure we can use "hearings" in this perspective. But picking on proper academic use of disabled, along with using "hearing" is a bit confusing to me. To me, audists and audist values is more accurate, but get your point!
it is old thinking to perceive disability as fighting to get out of mainstream...not enitrely true...
I said disabled people tend to fight to get into mainstream. Out of insitutions and in mainstream. Not out of mainstream. Not sure what you mean with old thinking?
personally, and academically i dont like "persons with disabiltiies' it is a flawed term, Disabled people is better, because it better reflect the theme which states society labels and disables us....'people with disabilities' seems at first runs like 'oh they are people first, then disabilities' but a closer look reads out like , they have an issues, not us, not me, and 'disabilities being added on with a 'with; reads out like, a physical, or intellectual flaw that belongs to them 'not us', they are the mistfortunes...etc this sort of mindset....yuck..
and yes as Deaf views are often mistakened for a "so called wants" to go on their own as a cultural group, but it should be made more aware that the colonialism persists to this day, that 'leaders' are Deaf, and it gets worse when it is colonised by hearing peoples values..but again this whole thinking is still in process of 'thinking' time is changing and the ideas "we need", needs to keep ahead of the game, not easy.
To me the difference between beeing disabled and with disabilities isn't that big. Beeing disabled, means that's what "you ARE, not me". With disablity is what "you GOT, not me". Ok, never thought much about that one anyway.

You mean that deaf people really don't want to go on their own as a cultural group?

It's a process called decolonising, that's perhaps whats going on many places? Deaf audist leaders, licking the ass of hearing man, while explaining that we have to process in steps. Fortunately in many countries in europe, I see good deaf leaders getting more common than ten years ago, more proactive and demanding, so I'm optimistic. The downside is perhaps that deaf people will have to learn with the fact that deaf leaders are human beeings too, and not perfect. The situation is perhaps different where you live?
 
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