"i'm a little bit deaf"....

[Jane B.]

For hearing parents who THINK they know what is best for their deaf children, they should really focus on ASL first and then speech... If they want to learn.

And how are the supposed to get to know what you say they should do?

 

[peekaboo]

And how are the supposed to get to know what you say they should do?

I can't speak for them, this is my own opinion. I just know that they would be better off knowing ASL as a young child because if they start them too early on hearing schools teaching them oral and cued speech... they will never be TRULY themselves as they are born to be and that is what Father in heaven made them be... D/deaf. Why change them if there is nothing to change. They can get teh same education from a deaf school as if we're in a mainstream school. They are closing down deaf schools left and right to put them in mainstream hearing schools. I WISHED that I had gone to a deaf school, my life would have been so much better off, I am not not speaking fro myself, many of my deaf friends have said the same as well.

 

[zeefour]

zeefour & peekaboo what about the ones I have read posts from that got no form of sign language? It looks like your folks tried the best they knew of.

Um no I've been pretty consistent witj my educational background. So has @peekaboo if you knew what it was like for DHH kids with amplification our age growing up you'd have no problem following our stories. You're clumping "sign language" into one entity.

We both grew up in the age where mainstreaming kids meant TC or Total Communication. Since I was in kindergarten I had HAs and speech therapy. I also started in SPED reading and English with my speech teacher (rural mtn school districts in my state share one centralized group for specialized services so my teacher for these things traveled) which is where I was exposed to SEE 1 and 2 like most DHH mainstreamed kids in the early 90s were exposed to SEE. I also had an aid when I was younger who used signed English and cued speech with me when I was in my "normal" classroom (not pulled out for special services)

As I went to Deaf camo every summer I began to have Deaf friends and my signed English became more PSE as I grew oldee because a lot of them used ASL.

But no I was not raused or taught ASL growing up. I have never once said I was instead I often lament I was NOT. I was exposed to a slew of signing systems the one you and TOD seem to advocate as equal to ASL. Yet the majority of my education was spent with speech and mainstreaming and I am 29 years old and ir exhausts me still. My HAs hurt my ears I can't afford the new ones I need (over $6k and my insurance won't pay a penny) I get tired and get headaches having to always try so hard to speak and follow speech I really can't hear if anything I hear jumbled background noise.

The signing systems I was taught are worthless outside my K-12 education I cant ask for an SE interpreter I can't go to Deaf socials and use SE. Plus thet took tons of extra time since theyre not languages in and of themselves and are not acquired naturally in the same way. And speech therapy? Hahahaha you know how many tens of thousands of hours I spent from age 3 to 16 in speech? To be called a retard by those hearing kids that are so much smarter than me to do something that was contrary to who I am?

So yes I sign. And I am trying to learn ASL fluently But my K-12 education used no ASL. And the majority of it was speech based.

Notice how no DHH who spent their childhoods in some form of Deaf ed has had a problem following this pretty easy to understand backstory. A lot of even lived it.

 

[zeefour]

zeefour & peekaboo what about the ones I have read posts from that got no form of sign language? It looks like your folks tried the best they knew of.

Sorry for being snappy I misread some of your post. But the description of my education is the same.

I was born in 1988 and I grew uo in what was then a small mountain town There wasn't many options and my parents didn't have the internet or any in person resources really. The only option was CSDB 4-5 hours away to send me to at age 5. My dad is Native and his family and ancestors had seriously horrible experiences with residential schools . They did do their best but it was a different time and different situation than today IMO. I wish more than anything I was 10 years younger so I could have been raised bi bi and gone to RMDS the Deaf charter day school. Best of both worlds!

But parents these days have NO excuse not to expose DHH to ASL. None.

 

[Tetracyclone]

Sorry for being snappy I misread some of your post. But the description of my education is the same.

I was born in 1988 and I grew uo in what was then a small mountain town There wasn't many options and my parents didn't have the internet or any in person resources really. The only option was CSDB 4-5 hours away to send me to at age 5. My dad is Native and his family and ancestors had seriously horrible experiences with residential schools . They did do their best but it was a different time and different situation than today IMO. I wish more than anything I was 10 years younger so I could have been raised bi bi and gone to RMDS the Deaf charter day school. Best of both worlds!

But parents these days have NO excuse not to expose DHH to ASL. None.

Your viewpoint makes utter good sense, and even if there were NO awful history with residential schools, 5 years old is way too young for a child to be separated from her family. At 8 or 9 most kids are strong enough and know enough to leave home if it is necessary, but not 5.

 

[Jane B.]

Sorry for being snappy I misread some of your post. But the description of my education is the same.

I was born in 1988 and I grew uo in what was then a small mountain town There wasn't many options and my parents didn't have the internet or any in person resources really. The only option was CSDB 4-5 hours away to send me to at age 5. My dad is Native and his family and ancestors had seriously horrible experiences with residential schools . They did do their best but it was a different time and different situation than today IMO. I wish more than anything I was 10 years younger so I could have been raised bi bi and gone to RMDS the Deaf charter day school. Best of both worlds!

But parents these days have NO excuse not to expose DHH to ASL. None.

Thanks for the apology.

I have not had a problem with accepting how you feel about your school years. But, I do feel that a lot of the tensions, especially in this thread, come from writing before stopping and making sure the reaction is to what has actually been written. Remember what you grew up with is not what all of us grew up with. So how we phrase things will reflect what our own background is.

For example I was born in 1942 rather than 1988. So . . .any deaf education when I was a kid would have been a residential school as far as I can find. And in my case, as described elsewhere, I was unilaterally deaf throughout my school years only becoming profound in the good ear as an adult. I had no problems in my regular community grade and high school.

You say "But parents these days have NO excuse not to expose DHH to ASL. None." Where are they supposed to get that information? And know that that place exists?

 

[zeefour]

Thanks for the apology.

I have not had a problem with accepting how you feel about your school years. But, I do feel that a lot of the tensions, especially in this thread, come from writing before stopping and making sure the reaction is to what has actually been written. Remember what you grew up with is not what all of us grew up with. So how we phrase things will reflect what our own background is.

For example I was born in 1942 rather than 1988. So . . .any deaf education when I was a kid would have been a residential school as far as I can find. And in my case, as described elsewhere, I was unilaterally deaf throughout my school years only becoming profound in the good ear as an adult. I had no problems in my regular community grade and high school.

You say "But parents these days have NO excuse not to expose DHH to ASL. None." Where are they supposed to get that information? And know that that place exists?

On the same token, you can't take your experience and advocate for the benefits of mainstreaming for DHH students. You could hear in one ear, and that changes the ball game entirely. Not that I'm trying to invalidate your experience and your identity as DHH, but the sheer logistics of it are very different than the average child we're talking about when it comes to specialized Deaf Ed. You didn't need Deaf Ed programs to learn the very basics. You didn't spend thousands of hours in speech classes, you weren't forced to rely on amplified sound with bulky and intrusive FM systems, you didn't have language development put at risk and your exposure to sign wasn't the made up systems that were so prominent right after the oralist era ended but before today's bilingual holistic approach. And if you're saying you had a good mainstream experience, a hearing parent of a bilateral prelingual Deaf child might not realize that their child has very very different needs.

These days every state has some sort of Outreach or Child Find program that is early intervention for infants/toddlers and families from birth to age 3 as well as SPED Preschool programs. There's also the internet, which is admittedly not always dependable but at least gives people the ability to connect with Deaf Ed groups, for hearing parents to talk to DHH adults about their own experiences with the possible options for their children and then there's the ability to connect with places like Gallaudet and their model schools without having to send your child to Kendall all the way in DC. This is why a lot of us have taken these discussions so personally. We don't want children to have to go through what we did because of the information their parents are getting. It's a mix of parents being able to connect to quality specialized resources so so so much more easily than 20 years ago and states and school systems having access (generally) to specialized program information (like most states bringing ASL into the homes in whatever capacity they can, trying to involve families, having early home intervention at all, etc.)

 

[DeafDucky]

You say "But parents these days have NO excuse not to expose DHH to ASL. None." Where are they supposed to get that information? And know that that place exists?

These days, more doctors and professionals (i.e. audiologists etc) need to be trained or at least made aware of various options when they go through their chosen educational paths. Older doctors et al don't have that opportunity unless they make the effort to go to conferences and so forth. BUT I think that higher education ought to have some kind of course/program to provide knowledge of resources for ANY disability.. or at least know where to look for said resources.

Plus today, most parents have the internet at their fingertips and may likely come across many different things while searching "What do i do? my kid is deaf" in google or bing or duck duck go.

There 's no answer but there's no excuse either- right now there's far better chances and opportunities to find resources than there were decades ago and maybe...just maybe less of professionals with extreme biases such as "Learning sign will stunt their speech", or 'Learning sign will limit them too much" or..."Oral is bad bad baaaaaad" (yes all of the above reared their ugly little heads after the ban on sign language(s) at the Milan Conference in 1880).

Resources were very little for my parents other than their primary doctor (I'm guessing here... my family is not known for talking...). I don't know how they came to find out about PSD or cued speech (in its infancy at the time) or the other pre-K programs for oral deaf kids in the area. Can't have been easy like it is today with a google click away. They did their best but doesn't mean that I don't wish I had sign language in my young years.. I do. (But I can see why at least my mother was not happy with PSD.. they wouldn't take me probably because of multiple disabilities (deaf and legally blind) and from the story I'm told said I was mentally retarded- !

 

[DeafDucky]

You didn't spend thousands of hours in speech classes, you weren't forced to rely on amplified sound with bulky and intrusive FM systems, you didn't have language development put at risk and your exposure to sign wasn't the made up systems that were so prominent right after the oralist era ended but before today's bilingual holistic approach.

*Zillions of hours of speech therapy (or it felt like it...)--- check
*FM system... never had that- just the bulky body aid with one receiver for both ears (a bad idea...)
*Exposure to SEE et al- never had that either (I may be very grateful i didn't and I was after I took a SEE class (mandatory for my grad major at the time) in grad school.

Education for the D/HH & deafblind has come a long way...but verrrrry slooooooooooooooooooooowly ugh.

 

[Jane B.]

zeefour
I didn't want to take up some much space as to quote all of what you just wrote. But what I was trying to call attention to is that in trying to say the same thing our individual background is going to make a difference in how we phrase it when writing.

I am not and have not been trying to advocate for any one program or method. Just call attention to different writing styles when trying to get the same point across.

 

[zeefour]

*Zillions of hours of speech therapy (or it felt like it...)--- check
*FM system... never had that- just the bulky body aid with one receiver for both ears (a bad idea...)
*Exposure to SEE et al- never had that either (I may be very grateful i didn't and I was after I took a SEE class (mandatory for my grad major at the time) in grad school.

Education for the D/HH & deafblind has come a long way...but verrrrry slooooooooooooooooooooowly ugh.

I agree 110% with that last bit!! It's come soooooo far yet has sooooo far to go. Especially when we're still debating some really basic issues with the "professionals" who are responsible for teaching DHH kids today cough the other thread cough

Sorry if it came across like those are experiences you NEED to be able to talk about your Deaf Ed experience, those are just a few examples. Really any DHH person who had to go through Deaf Ed in any capacity! I just wanted to point out how if you didn't need Deaf Ed you can't say that because you did well in normal school mainstreaming is hunky dory.

 

[Jane B.]

I am trying to decide on something that one of you said to qoute and then show how diffferently I would phrase the same thought. Not that either one is right or wrong but naturally different because of our differing backgrounds.

 

[peekaboo]

*Zillions of hours of speech therapy (or it felt like it...)--- check
*FM system... never had that- just the bulky body aid with one receiver for both ears (a bad idea...)
*Exposure to SEE et al- never had that either (I may be very grateful i didn't and I was after I took a SEE class (mandatory for my grad major at the time) in grad school.

Education for the D/HH & deafblind has come a long way...but verrrrry slooooooooooooooooooooowly ugh.

I SO 1000% agree on everything, this was me. oral, speech, touch throat, feel sounds, repeat words as little as 18 months up until I was 4 1/2 years old, thats 4 years of hard work to make everyone happy , but me! Up to this day, I am somewhat conflict who I really am since I was not able to learn ASL as a child. I look at myself and I still dont know who I am

 

[zeefour]

I SO 1000% agree on everything, this was me. oral, speech, touch throat, feel sounds, repeat words as little as 18 months up until I was 4 1/2 years old, thats 4 years of hard work to make everyone happy , but me! Up to this day, I am somewhat conflict who I really am since I was not able to learn ASL as a child. I look at myself and I still dont know who I am

PREACH!!! And when I've been in ASL its all hearing people I'm way ahead of but I never get to practice breaking my bad habits from years of SE and SEE.

There needs to be a program to get DHH adults who grew up DHH but weren't exposed to ASL fluent in ASL so we can be full participants in the Deaf community.

 

[peekaboo]

PREACH!!! And when I've been in ASL its all hearing people I'm way ahead of but I never get to practice breaking my bad habits from years of SE and SEE.

There needs to be a program to get DHH adults who grew up DHH but weren't exposed to ASL fluent in ASL so we can be full participants in the Deaf community.

There was a program for the DHH, until they starting shutting them down one by one left to right. I know how you feel. When I was signing SEE, the deaf community looked at me weird! I never felt so awkward and embarrassed, to say the least. The hearies will never get it, they may be thinking, oh they will get over it, its just a phrase or they will grow out of it. Yeah right!

The hearies are never, Never, NEVER going to get it until it happens to them. Until the meantime, we can tell them, explain it to them, write it in a book or do a movie about it, they ain't never going to get it.

They can say they seen DHH have success in the hearing mainstream schools, but how much of percentage is that? Not many I am sure of it.

They can say they are 100% behind the parent's decision to bring their child into a hearing mainstream school, in which I am sure they have had they say in it to make sure they fall through with the hearing system... however they fell to realize the impact on most of the HOH who do not have the influence of ASL upbringing to establish their true potential before entering a mainstream school confuses them as a whole (not sure where they belong). I know NOT all have that upbringing, but I bet MOST HOH feels left out going to a mainstream school when they are no HOH and or Deaf people around to chat with. I know that's hard on any DHH going to a mainstream school.

When I was in Jr high school... I was forbidden from ever joining any kind of club, I wanted to be a cheerleader, a hearing teacher told me NO that I wasn't good enough because I was deaf, I wanted to join the Spanish class, They said NO, Ithat I couldn't speak clear enough, I was only allow to JOIN SIGN LANGUAGE CLASSES. Go figure! That's hearing school for ya!!!!! I hated my childhood! I didnt have much of one! Thanks to the hearies! The only time that made sense to me was when I was aorund deaf people and THAT'S THE TRUTH! DAMN WHY DIDN'T I LEARN ASL GROWING UP? Ugh!

 

[zeefour]

There was a program for the DHH, until they starting shutting them down one by one left to right. I know how you feel. When I was signing SEE, the deaf community looked at me weird! I never felt so awkward and embarrassed, to say the least. The hearies will never get it, they may be thinking, oh they will get over it, its just a phrase or they will grow out of it. Yeah right!

The hearies are never, Never, NEVER going to get it until it happens to them. Until the meantime, we can tell them, explain it to them, write it in a book or do a movie about it, they ain't never going to get it.

They can say they seen DHH have success in the hearing mainstream schools, but how much of percentage is that? Not many I am sure of it.

They can say they are 100% behind the parent's decision to bring their child into a hearing mainstream school, in which I am sure they have had they say in it to make sure they fall through with the hearing system... however they fell to realize the impact on most of the HOH who do not have the influence of ASL upbringing to establish their true potential before entering a mainstream school confuses them as a whole (not sure where they belong). I know NOT all have that upbringing, but I bet MOST HOH feels left out going to a mainstream school when they are no HOH and or Deaf people around to chat with. I know that's hard on any DHH going to a mainstream school.

When I was in Jr high school... I was forbidden from ever joining any kind of club, I wanted to be a cheerleader, a hearing teacher told me NO that I wasn't good enough because I was deaf, I wanted to join the Spanish class, They said NO, Ithat I couldn't speak clear enough, I was only allow to JOIN SIGN LANGUAGE CLASSES. Go figure! That's hearing school for ya!!!!! I hated my childhood! I didnt have much of one! Thanks to the hearies! The only time that made sense to me was when I was aorund deaf people and THAT'S THE TRUTH! DAMN WHY DIDN'T I LEARN ASL GROWING UP? Ugh!

OMG that's awful!!! I hated middle school, when I talked I was called retarded by the mean girls. I was 6' tall at age 11 and looked like a stick. I grew up in the poor condos near the trailer park with two little brothers and played on a guys ice hockey team and was a tomboy when my teammates ganged up and made fun of me (eventually a handful became my best friends to this day) and brought their GFs the cute little blonde hearing girls who made my life hell. middle school was when the kids who lived near me (they all spoke Spanish I was excluded so at least they were nice enough to me) had to join up with the super rich awful kids who lived up valley near the ski resort.

I tried to join drama . I tried out for the wizard of oz and practiced my try out speech for weeks. they made me be a tree. they said it was "so inspiring" I tried out and they "wanted to include me" so they made me be a god forsaken tree. I was mortified I got made fun of endlessly. I did sports because I didn't have to talk and I was tall and that's how I got a scholarship. it was nice enough to be known for something besides being the "poor hearing impaired girl"

We need to have a support group!!

 

[peekaboo]

OMG that's awful!!! I hated middle school, when I talked I was called retarded by the mean girls. I was 6' tall at age 11 and looked like a stick. I grew up in the poor condos near the trailer park with two little brothers and played on a guys ice hockey team and was a tomboy when my teammates ganged up and made fun of me (eventually a handful became my best friends to this day) and brought their GFs the cute little blonde hearing girls who made my life hell. middle school was when the kids who lived near me (they all spoke Spanish I was excluded so at least they were nice enough to me) had to join up with the super rich awful kids who lived up valley near the ski resort.

I tried to join drama . I tried out for the wizard of oz and practiced my try out speech for weeks. they made me be a tree. they said it was "so inspiring" I tried out and they "wanted to include me" so they made me be a god forsaken tree. I was mortified I got made fun of endlessly. I did sports because I didn't have to talk and I was tall and that's how I got a scholarship. it was nice enough to be known for something besides being the "poor hearing impaired girl"

We need to have a support group!!

I am all for a support group, we need to speak up and talk things out you know. That would be a good idea. I am sorry you were called names, me too and my friends as well. I am not asking for pity, but as I am sitting here typing this, it helps me to cope with what I had to go through, I am sure there are alot of DHH thats been through it too.

 

[Anni890]

Even in hard of school, which normaly i would get a good education. well its was okay for. however its can drag down.
classmates aere different, they understand differently. its takes times. my teacher dont sign.
teacher have to sign and speak! my class ´stress would be halved! or repeating...
and, back then, i was scared, because everyone were always saying, you have to speak. you have to learn it. i wondered, will no one like me, if i dont do it? And so on, i learned to speak to satify my teacher and parent expectations. To have fun, i always speaks in dgs with friends on breaks.
Biggest joke in my lesson for german, especially in hard of school,its called dictate ! the teacher speaks very slowly, we have to understand(!) and write down corrrectly, we gets score for that! meaning, if you hear bad, you get bad score. whats with that ? okay i give braille to hearie and demand have your eyes get closes. if you bad at braille, baaaad for you!
making mad *head shaking*

 

[DeafskepticisBAAACCK!]

I think I sort of understand what he's trying to say.
In my experience people tend to think you're either hearing or completely deaf. I have come across many people who have never met or had to work with someone with hearing loss and can be ignorant to it since the only thing they do know is what they see on tv and I find tv doesn't really represent the whole spectrum when it comes to hearing loss. What I find is most people don't take those who are deaf/HoH seriously unless the fit the original "stereotype". I've had hearing people try to tell me that Im really not deaf/deaf enough because I can speak semi well, I don't have any hearing devices, and that I don't have a real hearing issue because I don't have the "deaf" look. Or I get the other side of things where I've had hearing people who thought I was too deaf and therefore a waste of their time.

 

[peekaboo]

That is what I get too, like, you dont look deaf? ANd what exactly does a deaf person is suppose to look like????? LOL!!!!!!!
Some people LOVE to stereotype others that are not them. ugh