If you want the hearies to hear you, get involved, here is how! up to you!

[shel90]

Did you read the email, or rather an approximation of the email I wrote to Obama? It needs to be general at first. I want them to recognize that the Deaf people are a viable voting block, just like the women leagues of voters and others. Once they get flooded with emails that you are out here and you are looking to support a candidate, they will fight for your attention. But it will only work if enough people flood them and let them know that they want an interview with them. You need to pick a few people or delegates as spokes people. Maybe put together some petitions, or testimonials. I think if you can make a good enough argument on paper, you could send it to Oprah, and she might do an interview with you.

Anything is possible if you can get enough support from the whole Deaf community and some of the hearing parents who are disatisfied with their children's education and social development. If you get any thoughts, just jot them down real quick, and they can be followed up on. If research is needed, delegate some people to compile what you need. If everyone did just a little, you could have some real proposals ready in no time. The first step is to let the candidates know that you are out here and that you need their helpl. BTW,, I am very lucky to have met you and Jillio. You add to my life daily. And most of all, you give me hope for change. Thanks for all you do.

Ok, I will type up a short memo, get it approved by my boss and start sending them to everyone.

 

[dreamchaser]

To answer your question, BiBi because it uses appropriate models of language while TC uses anything that works for each student which sounds good but in reality, it is very difficult for a classroom teacher to use different methodologies to meet each student's needs in one lesson. I have worked in a TC program and it was just impossible for the teacher to do it correctly so they ended up using Sim-Com which is even worse because one language ususally gets compromised.

TC would be more appropriate for an one-on-one basis not for a whole class instruction. With BiBi, both languages are kept separate keeping them in their pure form.

Cool, So, when they are teaching English in BIBI, do they use SEE or what to teach articles and past and present tense type things?

 

[dreamchaser]

Ok, I will type up a short memo, get it approved by my boss and start sending them to everyone.

You so totally rock. Now, how do you get the people on AD to sign up????

 

[dreamchaser]

Shel, I was just writing you in ASL thread that we need to find a constitutional law student or lawyer that is sympathetic to Deaf issues, maybe through NAD. I was asking you about laws that protect your job from a CI user getting it.

I wonder if it would be constitutional to require that all deaf screeners need to direct parents to a Deaf counselor as soon as possible after diagnoses proves hearing loss. Maybe there could be a Deaf counselor on staff at the screenings and involved in the process of informing the parents from the very start. It would not be against their constitutional rights to offer them education about services and cultural issues before they get sent anywhere else. They would still be free to make decisions but at least it would be an educated decision.

Are you a memeber of the BIBI coalition? I think Jillio is. If there is enough support from the Deaf community, I am thinking that the coalition might be helpful in orchestrating some of the legalities of things. If they know that people are behind them, they might have lots of answers. They say their biggest problem is lack of public awareness of their programs. This might be just what they need to boost their programs. They already know what it takes to instrument a program from scratch, and they could give you some data, and reports about the way it all works.

 

[Grummer]

Its really interesting tto read this thread but since im not from USA and quite snowed under on my assignment I can't give alot of time to read and ponders my thoughts on this.

So yeah, theres a couple of small things id like to share as food for thoughts, just so you are wary of how politicians (and their public relations officer whose writes the speech for politicians) plays tricks with words you see they are very clever to mesmerize people into believe what they hear/read is exactly what they think it is when it is not quite the real intention moreso they will NOT be upfront with what their inside, behind the door adminstrative concerns in the whys they want to propose such policy changes...
there's an example. (and this is based on real life, it is not made up)

President Clinton once said " The last big group of people in this country who keep the economy going strong with low inflation are Americans with disabilities ... who are not in the workforce'. It sounded very nice and almost as so its recognising disabled people to want to include and give a better chance to a better lifestyle being employed however what they dont tell you is that this call-out to the policy reforms are based on supply-side of the macroeconomics. The idea which to keep the inflation down which in turn to keep wages down...it really means by having more desparate people for jobs makes the job competition high and workers wages down helps to protect corporate profits high and their privileges is protected, and so they have more power over people. History have shown that economic reforms did not make compulsory to jobs creation it needed other means to colloborate such as policy changes in the social rights area to achieve such a desired change however, this is a catch-22 situation because any policy changes done by policy makers is often shifled since they (policy makers) are conspicious of how rights affect the eonomy and same time, policy makers duties are also affected by the market forces. So for any new rights or addition are always affirmed only when it has a relatively low cost that in turn, translate minimal effectiveness in the changes for us - disabled - deaf people.

So it is like when next time you hear/see this sort of annoucements, always remind yuorself that politicians knows this too,and they would never EVER say that corporates' property rights (to gain profit translating to more capital) is more important that individual rights (to seek reasonable accomodation for) employment.

By efforts or wants to remove people of the welfare sounds good (it is) , but its never for the reason of empathy its boils down to economics and power balancing.

so in relation to bi-bi education, just be more sure of what the policy loopholes are, are they going to employ more specialist interventionlist teachers to facilitate the learning (from) d/Deaf employee is that long term or short term then take over?
And so on there is a lot to consider. but by all means go ahead, push and keep pushing even if this one fails, if it succeed then just be wary.....
ok i was talking about employment and not a broader range of issues the point was this example shoujld be noted. education would be similar but i dont know how, havent researched this far yet, one thing at a time

 

[dreamchaser]

Its really interesting tto read this thread but since im not from USA and quite snowed under on my assignment I can't give alot of time to read and ponders my thoughts on this.

So yeah, theres a couple of small things id like to share as food for thoughts, just so you are wary of how politicians (and their public relations officer whose writes the speech for politicians) plays tricks with words you see they are very clever to mesmerize people into believe what they hear/read is exactly what they think it is when it is not quite the real intention moreso they will NOT be upfront with what their inside, behind the door adminstrative concerns in the whys they want to propose such policy changes...
there's an example. (and this is based on real life, it is not made up)

President Clinton once said " The last big group of people in this country who keep the economy going strong with low inflation are Americans with disabilities ... who are not in the workforce'. It sounded very nice and almost as so its recognising disabled people to want to include and give a better chance to a better lifestyle being employed however what they dont tell you is that this call-out to the policy reforms are based on supply-side of the macroeconomics. The idea which to keep the inflation down which in turn to keep wages down...it really means by having more desparate people for jobs makes the job competition high and workers wages down helps to protect corporate profits high and their privileges is protected, and so they have more power over people. History have shown that economic reforms did not make compulsory to jobs creation it needed other means to colloborate such as policy changes in the social rights area to achieve such a desired change however, this is a catch-22 situation because any policy changes done by policy makers is often shifled since they (policy makers) are conspicious of how rights affect the eonomy and same time, policy makers duties are also affected by the market forces. So for any new rights or addition are always affirmed only when it has a relatively low cost that in turn, translate minimal effectiveness in the changes for us - disabled - deaf people.

So it is like when next time you hear/see this sort of annoucements, always remind yuorself that politicians knows this too,and they would never EVER say that corporates' property rights (to gain profit translating to more capital) is more important that individual rights (to seek reasonable accomodation for) employment.

By efforts or wants to remove people of the welfare sounds good (it is) , but its never for the reason of empathy its boils down to economics and power balancing.

so in relation to bi-bi education, just be more sure of what the policy loopholes are, are they going to employ more specialist interventionlist teachers to facilitate the learning (from) d/Deaf employee is that long term or short term then take over?
And so on there is a lot to consider. but by all means go ahead, push and keep pushing even if this one fails, if it succeed then just be wary.....
ok i was talking about employment and not a broader range of issues the point was this example shoujld be noted. education would be similar but i dont know how, havent researched this far yet, one thing at a time

Thanks for the heads up. I agree about the way politics usually work,, but I am believing that part of that is because We the People quit participating. That is why the Deaf community themselves need to take this straight to the new candidates. These guys are fighting for votes right now, and that is when they are more apt to court your vote. That is why the D/com needs to know what they want to put on the table and to have a reasonable proposal to offer. They need to consider the costs etc, and not to be petty. But, change only comes when someone does something. If it is a change for good or for bad, it always happens because somebody plants a seed.

Thanks for joining the conversation, and if you think up any other things that we should be aware of, let us know. Maybe you could do a little on line research to help us understand the macroeconomics of the BIBI system. What would the financial cost be to get it started.??

 

[shel90]

Cool, So, when they are teaching English in BIBI, do they use SEE or what to teach articles and past and present tense type things?

Yes, as a teaching tool but not for language development. I believe in using it only for modeling grammar. However, when we have discussions about the grammatical rules of English, we discuss the concepts using ASL.

 

[dreamchaser]

Yes, as a teaching tool but not for language development. I believe in using it only for modeling grammar. However, when we have discussions about the grammatical rules of English, we discuss the concepts using ASL.

cool.

So it is working well? Then that is what the proposal would ask for, is ASL with SEE for grammatical English only?

What does the cultural part of BIBI do? Do hearing kids get any education about deaf issues?

 

[Bottesini]

cool.

So it is working well? Then that is what the proposal would ask for, is ASL with SEE for grammatical English only?

What does the cultural part of BIBI do? Do hearing kids get any education about deaf issues?

Read below, it is really more to educate deaf children than to make sure the hearing community is included.

The word bilingual (by-LING-gwal) means being able to speak 2 languages. The word bicultural (by-CUL-tur-al) means being part of 2 cultures, or 2 communities.

* In bi-bi (by-by), children use 2 languages and learn about 2 cultures:
o Children learn American Sign Language (ASL) as a first language. They learn ASL as their main way of communicating with other people.
o They learn English as a second language.
They use English mainly for reading and writing.
They may also learn spoken English.
o Children learn about and become part of Deaf culture and the Deaf community.
o They are also still part of their family's culture and their family's community.
* Bilingual-biculturalism (bi-bi) is based on the idea that deaf children need a language they can see.
o Spoken English is very hard to learn because they can't hear.
o Since they learn by seeing, American Sign Language (ASL) is best for them.
o Once they've learned one language, they can pick up other languages more easily.

 

[Grummer]

cool.

So it is working well? Then that is what the proposal would ask for, is ASL with SEE for grammatical English only?

What does the cultural part of BIBI do? Do hearing kids get any education about deaf issues?

well thats another thing, you gotta be utter careful with that, its best to stick with a hardline BI-BI, and not use SEE, or any 'tools' for English... hearies are sneaky, and while on other hand even interpreters can be sneaky as *they are* looking for work, its in their professional interest to be employed, doesnt matter so much if the deaf students stays solidly on the ground of learning or not. off topic...Interpreters are hearing people, dont forget that, even I am leery of Codas, becuase like some
(I DONT CARE IF IM SO CALLED INSENSITIVE ITS JUST TRUE!!) Deaf parents didnt do a good job of raising their kids to be 'anything' but terps.. its sort of sick imo, that itself is another topic that I have my reservations on, and later on I will bring up.... my point is Deaf education should be ultimately to the benefit to all deaf people, not d/Deaf 'professionals' who are political surrogates or such and certainly not just 'cultural Deafs', there are a large number of unfortunate deafs/hearing impaired (not at fault of their own) left out in the lurch, dare I say I sometimes thinks Culturally Deafs are bloody selfish, and ignorant much as they end up being oppressors themselves, and I arent gonna back off saying this.

Shel90 is right there, use ASL (or any other native sign languages) to discuss reading/writing of English.

In general, care is to be taken to ensure the intents it well devoid (or at less mimimise and that begs to ask what shape, would restrictions may take) of hidden agendas, but its very very difficult as politics is just that; decisions to suit who, well i think i'd leave it right there for now.

 

[dreamchaser]

You are right about politicians having agendas. But the people in the Deaf community, and the hearies that love them, are just as smart. If you are asking for something reasonable, and if you have a plan, you can almost force politicians to work with you because they hate bad publicity.

Oprah and Maury are two examples of shows that take up good causes. The idea is to let the politicians know that you all can vote, and that you have a voice. If they pull something bad, then expose them.

 

[dreamchaser]

Read below, it is really more to educate deaf children than to make sure the hearing community is included.

The word bilingual (by-LING-gwal) means being able to speak 2 languages. The word bicultural (by-CUL-tur-al) means being part of 2 cultures, or 2 communities.

* In bi-bi (by-by), children use 2 languages and learn about 2 cultures:
o Children learn American Sign Language (ASL) as a first language. They learn ASL as their main way of communicating with other people.
o They learn English as a second language.
They use English mainly for reading and writing.
They may also learn spoken English.
o Children learn about and become part of Deaf culture and the Deaf community.
o They are also still part of their family's culture and their family's community.
* Bilingual-biculturalism (bi-bi) is based on the idea that deaf children need a language they can see.
o Spoken English is very hard to learn because they can't hear.
o Since they learn by seeing, American Sign Language (ASL) is best for them.
o Once they've learned one language, they can pick up other languages more easily.

Would you support BIBI as the national standard for Deaf ED?

 

[Bottesini]

Would you support BIBI as the national standard for Deaf ED?

Of course. Yes.

 

[Bottesini]

Would you support BIBI as the national standard for Deaf ED?

Forgot to say. Please spell carefully. It helps me understand. I read a lot more words than I heard and if spelled right I can look it up if I don't understand.

 

[dreamchaser]

Forgot to say. Please spell carefully. It helps me understand. I read a lot more words than I heard and if spelled right I can look it up if I don't understand.

Geeez, I am sorry if my fingers go faster than my brain. I will try to be more careful.. I am usually in such a hurry because I am buried in homework that I don't proof read what I write. I also used to work with Typewell program which has short cut keys. Unfotunately, you can't use short cut words on a regular word processing system.

 

[Bottesini]

Geeez, I am sorry if my fingers go faster than my brain. I will try to be more careful.. I am usually in such a hurry because I am buried in homework that I don't proof read what I write. I also used to work with Typewell program which has short cut keys. Unfotunately, you can't use short cut words on a regular word processing system.

Should be little red lines under wrong words. If I can do it you can, it takes no time. Truly most people who don't hear don't get the meaning if you type what you hear instead of the real written word.

 

[dreamchaser]

Should be little red lines under wrong words. If I can do it you can, it takes no time. Truly most people who don't hear don't get the meaning if you type what you hear instead of the real written word.

Thanks for the heads up Bot, I will try to keep that in mind in the future. Of course, sometimes I just plain forget how to spell a work I used to know how to spell. Is there a spell check here that I have not yet seen?

 

[Bottesini]

Thanks for the heads up Bot, I will try to keep that in mind in the future. Of course, sometimes I just plain forget how to spell a work I used to know how to spell. Is there a spell check here that I have not yet seen?

Use online dictionary. There are lots. I keep them in my favorites.

 

[Chase]

Bott is so right about deafies in particular misunderstanding typos, misspellings, and the wrong word used.

Proofreading before hitting the "send" button is best for clarity, with a dictionary on hand for back-up. Spell checkers are probably the least effective:

Aye half a spell ling czech her; its their on my pee sea.
Ewe no awl my words make cents now, sew happy wee will bee.

The little poem above showed no error when run through a spell checker, but it's phonetic nonsense to those not used to sound-alikes.

 

[August]

I promised some of my friends here on AD that I would look up the email addys for the 3 candidates for pres.

Many of you are posting about problems with schooling and literacy and employment issues. Also, captioning and other issues are continually being brought up here. I can only say this. You can start a change, just like they did at Gallaudet, and the Deaf President Now movement. This is an election year, and everyone wants your vote.

You will only get attention if you ALL send email to the candidates to tell them that you want to talk to them. Then you can arrange to do that and bring your problems into the spotlight. It is up to you. I have said for many years, (please don't get offended) that you have no right to complain if you don't at least try to vote and to get involved to change things.

All you have to do is go to these sites, and fill out your email addys and such, then leave a short message that says that you think the Deaf community needs help and that you want to have an opportunity to bring your problems to their attention. Just be general and say that you are worried about education or whatever without getting specific. You can get specific when you actually talk to them. Let them know that you are voters. It has to be done in mass. I am writing my own. Here are the email addresses:

IF you have enough people contacting them, they will realize that you are a viable voting block and they will fight for your attention.
Go get em!

obama.Senate.gov/contact
clinton.senate.gov/contact
mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=contact.con

all of these people have dedicated staff who respond to their mail for them with prewritten responses already made for different scenarios. you won't get to just drop Barack Obama an email and sit down for a little chat with him.

and i must disagree about the bolded part. voting, especially for president, is not going to change much. all the candidates are more or less the same and the electoral college -- thought up because Congress thinks you, the voters, are too stupid to pick your elected officials -- makes individual votes meaningless. forming groups, holding meetings, picketing, speaking at city hall and senate meetings for causes you care about, handing out pamphlets, talking to people one on one, and many other things are effective ways to create change. voting for clinton or obama or mccain is purely symbolic.