If CI is a choice..

[jillio]

My point is that maybe it can help the hearing parents understand why many culturally Deaf people see putting deaf children through surgery for the sake of being able to "hear" as abusive. If I were to post a thread saying that I am going to put my hearing children through surgery to make them deaf, u bet that I will be called an abusive parent. Instead of getting mad at Deaf people or calling them ignorant whenever they feel that it is abusive, try to see it from their point of view. Put themselves in their shoes...if it was the other way around...if this Earth was Eyeth, and being hearing is a disability, and Deaf people were trying to fix this disability by making their disabled child to fit the majority of the population which would be deaf?

Just theoritically thinking...again, anyone, pls do not take me literally but it did make me think outside of the box...

And thinking outside of the box is a good thing!

 

[Drew's Dad]

My point is that maybe it can help the hearing parents understand why many culturally Deaf people see putting deaf children through surgery for the sake of being able to "hear" as abusive. If I were to post a thread saying that I am going to put my hearing children through surgery to make them deaf, u bet that I will be called an abusive parent. Instead of getting mad at Deaf people or calling them ignorant whenever they feel that it is abusive, try to see it from their point of view. Put themselves in their shoes...if it was the other way around...if this Earth was Eyeth, and being hearing is a disability, and Deaf people were trying to fix this disability by making their disabled child to fit the majority of the population which would be deaf?

Just theoritically thinking...again, anyone, pls do not take me literally but it did make me think outside of the box...

"Normal" is always an artificial and relative construct based on one's surroundings.

Personally, I understand why some Deaf persons feel CI on a child is abusive - I can "see" it through their eyes. I just disagree with that view.

Deaf persons can feel it is perfectly justified to take away a child's hearing through physical means because their culture values deafness, it's just that fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your view) the society we live in holds that action as abusive.

We live in a world of majority/minority, broken up by countries, states, communities, families and even smaller units. All of these can have different value systems, norms, folkways and the like. "Normal" varies between them, but laws are generally drafted on a macro basis rather than a micro basis, which means much of the time these laws are written through the perspective of the majority (I doubt anyone who reads this doesn't already realize this).

While through the years the minority groups have gained some ground in getting better treatment through the eyes of the law, more ground must be made. However, I don't see a big push coming to allow a parent's choice to destroy the hearing of their children. There are some majority views that will not likely be altered...right or wrong.

 

[jillio]

"Normal" is always an artificial and relative construct based on one's surroundings.

Personally, I understand why some Deaf persons feel CI on a child is abusive - I can "see" it through their eyes. I just disagree with that view.

Deaf persons call feel it is perfectly justified to take away a child's hearing through physical means because their culture values deafness, it's just that fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your view) the society we live in holds that action as abusive.

We live in a world of majority/minority, broken up by countries, states, communities, families and even smaller units. All of these can have different value systems, norms, folkways and the like. "Normal" varies between them, but laws are generally drafted on a macro basis rather than a micro basis, which means much of the time these laws are written through the perspective of the majority (I doubt anyone who reads this doesn't already realize this).

While through the years the minority groups have gained some ground in getting better treatment through the eyes of the law, more ground must be made. However, I don't see a big push coming to allow a parent's choice to destroy the hearing of their children. There are some majority views that will not likely be altered...right or wrong.

Excellent post. I don't see the push to allow parents to render a child deaf happening either. I thinkit was more of a rhetorical question addressed to making peoplethink about the other perspective. Obviously, you have already done that! You are a rare bird, Drew's Dad!

 

[deafbajagal]

"Normal" is always an artificial and relative construct based on one's surroundings.

Personally, I understand why some Deaf persons feel CI on a child is abusive - I can "see" it through their eyes. I just disagree with that view.

Deaf persons can feel it is perfectly justified to take away a child's hearing through physical means because their culture values deafness, it's just that fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your view) the society we live in holds that action as abusive.

We live in a world of majority/minority, broken up by countries, states, communities, families and even smaller units. All of these can have different value systems, norms, folkways and the like. "Normal" varies between them, but laws are generally drafted on a macro basis rather than a micro basis, which means much of the time these laws are written through the perspective of the majority (I doubt anyone who reads this doesn't already realize this).

While through the years the minority groups have gained some ground in getting better treatment through the eyes of the law, more ground must be made. However, I don't see a big push coming to allow a parent's choice to destroy the hearing of their children. There are some majority views that will not likely be altered...right or wrong.

A good response . Very well put.

 

[deafbajagal]

I've wondered if there were medical situations in which a child might benefit from being deaf. I cannot think of a good example right now...except one. I know of a little girl who keeps having "bees" in her ears (buzzing sounds)...it was literally driving her crazy to the point she would scratch her ears and face to try to make it stop. They tried medication, etc. I wonder if they did surgery, which may cause her to be deaf, if that would help. It could have been psychological...I don't know.

 

[deafbajagal]

Speaking of norms...there was a little boy who came to me in tears. I knew his mother was expecting a baby soon, and I had quickly became afraid that something was wrong. The boy's entire family, including four siblings and countless aunts, uncles, and cousins, were deaf. Even their pets were deaf! So I sat the boy on my lap and asked him what was the matter. He finally confirmed my fears when he said there was something wrong with the baby. Very wrong. It shocked me so I did my best to reassure him that his mother would do everything she could to help the baby, etc. He said, but she can't. The baby is hearing! I finally realized that the family was upset because this child is not "normal." He was different. He was hearing. And the family (I went over to their house, frantic because I thought there was something seriously wrong) were upset because they didn't know what to do. The mother said, "How am I going to talk to him? He's one of them. He's hearing!"

 

[flip]

Speaking of norms...there was a little boy who came to me in tears. I knew his mother was expecting a baby soon, and I had quickly became afraid that something was wrong. The boy's entire family, including four siblings and countless aunts, uncles, and cousins, were deaf. Even their pets were deaf! So I sat the boy on my lap and asked him what was the matter. He finally confirmed my fears when he said there was something wrong with the baby. Very wrong. It shocked me so I did my best to reassure him that his mother would do everything she could to help the baby, etc. He said, but she can't. The baby is hearing! I finally realized that the family was upset because this child is not "normal." He was different. He was hearing. And the family (I went over to their house, frantic because I thought there was something seriously wrong) were upset because they didn't know what to do. The mother said, "How am I going to talk to him? He's one of them. He's hearing!"

Good story I know deaf people who tries to get deaf partners with deaf families to make sure their child is deaf. Looks like it's the same mechanisms that makes hearing people go the oral route with CI, AVT, mainstreaming and so on.

 

[rick48]

Good story I know deaf people who tries to get deaf partners with deaf families to make sure their child is deaf. Looks like it's the same mechanisms that makes hearing people go the oral route with CI, AVT, mainstreaming and so on.

No, its not.

 

[jillio]

Good story I know deaf people who tries to get deaf partners with deaf families to make sure their child is deaf. Looks like it's the same mechanisms that makes hearing people go the oral route with CI, AVT, mainstreaming and so on.

**nodding**

 

[R2D2]

I've wondered if there were medical situations in which a child might benefit from being deaf. I cannot think of a good example right now...except one. I know of a little girl who keeps having "bees" in her ears (buzzing sounds)...it was literally driving her crazy to the point she would scratch her ears and face to try to make it stop. They tried medication, etc. I wonder if they did surgery, which may cause her to be deaf, if that would help. It could have been psychological...I don't know.

Being deaf doesn't stop you from "hearing" noises. Sometimes sounds are generated by the auditory processing system rather than from the environment - tinnitus is an example. Loads of deaf people have tinnitus and it is a common by product of hearing loss.

I do think though that some hearing autistic children seem to prefer sign language to communicating orally. I'm not sure if it bothers them to hear sounds though.

 

[R2D2]

Speaking of norms...there was a little boy who came to me in tears. I knew his mother was expecting a baby soon, and I had quickly became afraid that something was wrong. The boy's entire family, including four siblings and countless aunts, uncles, and cousins, were deaf. Even their pets were deaf! So I sat the boy on my lap and asked him what was the matter. He finally confirmed my fears when he said there was something wrong with the baby. Very wrong. It shocked me so I did my best to reassure him that his mother would do everything she could to help the baby, etc. He said, but she can't. The baby is hearing! I finally realized that the family was upset because this child is not "normal." He was different. He was hearing. And the family (I went over to their house, frantic because I thought there was something seriously wrong) were upset because they didn't know what to do. The mother said, "How am I going to talk to him? He's one of them. He's hearing!"

Even though I haven't felt the same way personally, I can sort of understand their feelings. They probably worry that a hearing baby will one day reject them and go and join the muggles. I think that some hearing parents also worry that their deaf child won't want anything to do with them when they are older and instead make the deaf community their family. I just seem to remember growing up coming across a family who expressed those feelings. Same natural feelings.

 

[R2D2]

My point is that maybe it can help the hearing parents understand why many culturally Deaf people see putting deaf children through surgery for the sake of being able to "hear" as abusive. If I were to post a thread saying that I am going to put my hearing children through surgery to make them deaf, u bet that I will be called an abusive parent. Instead of getting mad at Deaf people or calling them ignorant whenever they feel that it is abusive, try to see it from their point of view. Put themselves in their shoes...if it was the other way around...if this Earth was Eyeth, and being hearing is a disability, and Deaf people were trying to fix this disability by making their disabled child to fit the majority of the population which would be deaf?

Just theoritically thinking...again, anyone, pls do not take me literally but it did make me think outside of the box...

Yes, I sensed you were trying to do that and could see what you were getting at. If the CI only made me hearing and didn't change anything else in my life, I would agree. All it would amount to was the difference between having blue eyes and brown eyes. But in my case, it really has made things a lot easier in practice as I live and work in a hearing world. I'm not saying this is true for everyone though.

 

[shel90]

Yes, I sensed you were trying to do that and could see what you were getting at. If the CI only made me hearing and didn't change anything else in my life, I would agree. All it would amount to was the difference between having blue eyes and brown eyes. But in my case, it really has made things a lot easier in practice as I live and work in a hearing world. I'm not saying this is true for everyone though.

right I am trying to show the hearing parents why some deaf people are against implanting children. To them being deaf is normal and they cant understand the need to fix it just like hearing people wouldnt understand my need to make my hearing children deaf. (not literally)

 

[jillio]

Being deaf doesn't stop you from "hearing" noises. Sometimes sounds are generated by the auditory processing system rather than from the environment - tinnitus is an example. Loads of deaf people have tinnitus and it is a common by product of hearing loss.

I do think though that some hearing autistic children seem to prefer sign language to communicating orally. I'm not sure if it bothers them to hear sounds though.

Some autistic kids are overwhelmed by too much auditory stimulation. But their preference for sign language is more connected to their expressive difficulties with verbal language. Many autistic people can and do communicate very effectively and eloquently using a computerized communication board, as well. But if you ask them to do the same thing expressively with verbal language, they simply can't. That is where the communication frustrations of autism are closely related to a deaf child that has language delays. They quite often understand much more than they can express through oral language.

 

[jillio]

right I am trying to show the hearing parents why some deaf people are against implanting children. To them being deaf is normal and they cant understand the need to fix it just like hearing people wouldnt understand my need to make my hearing children deaf. (not literally)

Understood. Numerous hearing parents on this board alone has expressed their motive for implanting their children was to make it easier for them to integrate and become a part of the hearing world; their world. They know the world as hearing people, and therefore, want their children to be a part of the world as they know it. The same can be said for deaf parents. They know the world as deaf individuals, and it is perfectly reasonable for them to experience the same in reverse. I don't think that is such a difficult concept to grasp. Any hearing parent that tells you that they did not grieve when they discovered that their child was not hearing, and also denies that the grief was in large part because they view deafness from their own hearing perspective is in serious denial.

 

[Cheri]

Understood. Numerous hearing parents on this board alone has expressed their motive for implanting their children was to make it easier for them to integrate and become a part of the hearing world; their world. They know the world as hearing people, and therefore, want their children to be a part of the world as they know it.

That is true Jillio and you know they will automatically say otherwise. They only wants to take professionals's perspectives not any deaf person's perspectives. Their children who are deaf are much related to us because we are deaf, we know our own pains, hurts, experiences, and our frustrations, do hearing people know what it is like to be deaf? No they don't, so what do they know what's best for deaf children?

 

[shel90]

That is true Jillio and you know they will automatically say otherwise. They only wants to take professionals's perspectives not any deaf person's perspectives. Their children who are deaf are much related to us because we are deaf, we know our own pains, hurts, experiences, and our frustrations, do hearing people know what it is like to be deaf? No they don't, so what do they know what's best for deaf children?

Couldnt have said it better!!!

 

[jillio]

That is true Jillio and you know they will automatically say otherwise. They only wants to take professionals's perspectives not any deaf person's perspectives. Their children who are deaf are much related to us because we are deaf, we know our own pains, hurts, experiences, and our frustrations, do hearing people know what it is like to be deaf? No they don't, so what do they know what's best for deaf children?

The only way to learn is to ask the deaf adults who have been deaf children, and then pay attention to what they have to say. Unfortunately, thats the last thing that most hearing parents do. Or if they ask, they don't pay attention to the answers they get. Most seem to be stuck in that "But my child is different. It won't happen to them." mentality.