I have a big question

[jillio]

Passivist, why do you say that Gallaudet is a "magnificent failure"?

Obviously a bias toward the hearing. And a sad lack of knowledge and evidence for that which he/she is preaching. Probably attempted a semester at Gally and had some problems with the people there.

 

[jillio]

It became a breeding ground for disaffected deaf instead of advancing the deaf way of life, they blew it with disruptions, stoppages, unreasonable demands, segregationist attitudes, class disruptions, Animal House Lampoon it wasn't. Then voting their own deaf leader out. Notwithstanding examinations found, that the deaf were being let down educationally there, by far the biggest negative of the whole sorry affair... thus undermining the concept of an all-deaf University bringing advancement. Deaf would have been better off WITHOUT an deaf university, they had the chance and let it go... Deaf schools marginalised and isolated deaf and an University took it a step further backward by practising deaf-Deaf discrimination in their own backyard under the guise of intellectualism.

The issue then is you compare.... Some of the responses here show less than intellect I have to say, just plain abuse.

Knowledge and intellect are not one and the same. You may have intellect. However, you have not used it to gain knowledge regarding that which you are concluding.

 

[jillio]

To answer the OP's original questions - I would send my children (deaf, hoh or hearing) to a mainstream school. I would consider a deaf school immediately after I felt the mainstream school was not adequate to meet my child's needs (eduction, social, ect). I had a positive experience in a mainstream school - though I will acknowledge my social life may have been different in a deaf school.

I suspect mainstream schools may be more adequate now in comparison to the experiences other AD members have shared about their past. On the same note - we hear from other AD members about positive movements within the deaf education system.

That being said - I think we all have to keep in mind that both education systems are changing. The mainstream experience I had (I graduated in 2005) is likely different than someone who graduated 30 years ago. 3 months is a short period of time to evaluate a deaf school, but everyone has different needs/priorities and I can respect that. Maybe the social experience might be better for someone in a mainstream environment but the education might be equal. Furthermore, thanks to the awareness older AD members brought to others and technology - some of the younger generation may be experiencing more positive attitude and flexibility with their educational journey.

Were you fluent in ASL when you attended the deaf school?

Why would you risk their failure first? All that tactic does is prevent them from ever functioning without being affected by delays created by the time lost waiting.

 

[jillio]

Joey,

It's good to hear that you've been enjoying the mainstreaming route. Cause I'm another that's a byproduct of that route and felt that it was beneficial for me.

However, you don't necessarily have to put down schools for the deaf in the process. If anything, some should remain open, partly to "fall back on" if some were to find the mainstreaming route too difficult.

In the meantime, you go on and continue to enjoy your mainstreaming experience!

The mainstream route "too difficult"? "Fall back on"? You are a piece of work.:roll: And your attitude is more than enough evidence that you are a product of the mainstream route.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Not Passivist.

Ahhhh.

 

[paperclip]

Why would you risk their failure first? All that tactic does is prevent them from ever functioning without being affected by delays created by the time lost waiting.

Correct me if I misunderstand your statement.

If I never consider mainstream education for my children - I never motivate mainstream education to improve.

 

[jillio]

Correct me if I misunderstand your statement.

If I never consider mainstream education for my children - I never motivate mainstream education to improve.

Shouldn't your first priority be to educate your children in the way that will be the most benefit to them and not motivating mainstream education to improve?

How exactly do you propose to motivate mainstream education to improve? A great deal of the issues that reduce proper accommodation are funding issues.

The most beneficial improvement they could make for the deaf student is to stop automatically interpreting the LRE to be the home school district.

 

[rolling7]

Mainstream....school for the Deaf...neither benefit the deaf child..but the deaf children are still being sent to one or the other....time to set up something better and benefitical.

Hey, don't jump on me....I'm the guys who thinks the public school system for hearing kids sucks big time...time to set up a better system for the hearing kids too.

 

[posts from hell]

Mainstream....school for the Deaf...neither benefit the deaf child..but the deaf children are still being sent to one or the other....time to set up something better and benefitical.

Hey, don't jump on me....I'm the guys who thinks the public school system for hearing kids sucks big time...time to set up a better system for the hearing kids too.

What's better then?

 

[rolling7]

Beats me! I'm not the person to ask. But I would agree to home schooling as long as one parent is there for the lessons and independent testing.

 

[jillio]

Beats me! I'm not the person to ask. But I would agree to home schooling as long as one parent is there for the lessons and independent testing.

And how would you address the socialization issues that go with home schooling.

What about communication needs of the deaf student in home schooling, given that most deaf children are born of hearing parents that never learn even rudimentary sign.

How would you address the needs of a deaf child to become familiar with deaf adults?

 

[Buffalo]

Mainstream....school for the Deaf...neither benefit the deaf child..but the deaf children are still being sent to one or the other....time to set up something better and benefitical.

Hey, don't jump on me....I'm the guys who thinks the public school system for hearing kids sucks big time...time to set up a better system for the hearing kids too.

My nephew who is a teacher, often complained about his students not really learning and he had to make things easier for them. His students aren't deaf.

 

[shel90]

Teaching my 5th graders about how America govt was started and the details of all the governing systems that made America a strong central government. Asked my students why America needed a strong central government not a weak one with the Declaration of Independence. What would have happened if the Loyalists had won the war instead of the Patroits. Had my students imagine what America would have been like if we had never declared independence from Britian.

I always ask my students to explain why they think this or that regarding to English grammatical rules and then we analyze the difference between ASL and English for writing class.

Teaching mathematical thinking in which my students have to write their own multiplication and division stories.

Just some examples of lessons I had recently done with my 5th graders

How's that for a low education at a Deaf school?

:roll:

 

[Bottesini]

Teaching my 5th graders about how America govt was started and the details of all the governing systems that made America a strong central government.

I always ask my students to explain why they think this or that regarding to English grammatical rules and then we analyze the difference between ASL and English for writing class.

Teaching mathematical thinking in which my students have to write their own multiplication and division stories.

Just some examples of lessons I had recently done with my 5th graders

How's that for a low education at a Deaf school?

:roll:

It's far more advanced than I was as a mainstream fifth grader. Vastly.

 

[shel90]

It's far more advanced than I was as a mainstream fifth grader. Vastly.

That is required from the curriculm and I agree with it! Anyone who says that all Deaf schools offer poor education is a liar.

The problem is that we get kids transferred from other programs who have fell so far behind hence the attitude about deaf schools as being a "fall back on". As a result, we have several students with language and cognitive delays from not having full access to language, communication, and the curriculm in those other programs. By supporting that, people are advocating for deaf children to fail and end up with language delays and deficits and then turn around and blame the deaf schools. What a joke.

Using deaf schools as a "fall back on" is a terrible terrible wish for deaf children. They do not deserve that at all.

 

[Bottesini]

That is required from the curriculm and I agree with it! Anyone who says that all Deaf schools offer poor education is a liar.

The problem is that we get kids transferred from other programs who have fell so far behind hence the attitude about deaf schools as being a "fall back on". As a results, we have several students with language and cognitive delays from not having full access to language, communication, and the curriculm in those other programs. By supporting that, people are advocating for deaf children to fail and end up with language delays and deficits and then turn around and blame the deaf schools. What a joke.

Using deaf schools as a "fall back on" is a terrible terrible wish for deaf children. They do not deserve that at all.

I am only good at English because my father worked extensively at home on it with me.

Everything else, I can't do.

 

[shel90]

I am only good at English because my father worked extensively at home on it with me.

Everything else, I can't do.

Same here...I improved with math, science, history and everything since learning ASL at 25 years old. Before that, I was very limited with my knowledge but good at English. You arent the only one so dont feel bad.

 

[Buffalo]

Why do you think deaf school have a good education?-
Here my thoughts on deaf school.
--I personally doesn't like deaf school at all because of their low education levels amd drama problems. I know there only few deaf school does have a good education but I never go there because I'm not live in their states. I have seen a lot of deaf adult and teengers have poor grammars. I wondering, if their grammar is not that good then why did they still going to deaf school which doesn't have a good education? I know soical with deaf people is important, so is education too. We want show hearing people that we are not dumb, right? I want us to have a history because of the past, these people hide their deaf children in shame or kil them. You never know. But that's not point anyways. If I had a children, I would send them to mainstream schools. Social is important, yes but what about education? I want young deaf people to have a goob job which they don't have to depend on SSI. I never have any SSI expect soon this month I should get SSI because I don't have a job yet and I still in high school. So, if deaf schools doesn't have a good education then why not school board shut them down? Government paid for deaf schools too.

Only thing I agree with you is that socialization with deaf kids and education are two important things for the deaf child.
Hearing schools don't have drama? Nope! A first grader brought a gun to school and it went off, killing a girl. That happened near Flint, Michgian. That is a big big drama.
If I have a deaf child, I would send the child to a good deaf school even if I have to move. I would worry about the child being bullied in a mainstream school. How do you know the hearing kids didn't made fun of you behind your back?
I don't believe that mainstream school is good for most of the deaf kids. I have heard Shel90 complaining about some new deaf kids being transferred to her school. You went to a mainstream school and yet your English is not good (I am sorry about saying that to you). I never have been mainstreamed so why my first college roommate who was mainstreamed all her life was one level BEHIND me in English level???? My old boyfriend who was mainstreamed until 10th grade and his English is much worse than yours.
Now tell me, who mostly run the deaf schools? I believe it is mostly hearing people. Hearing teachers would feel sorry for the deaf child and gave the child a passing mark eventhough the child's work was terrible.
You see, I don't think deafness is the problem.... it is how the hearing people perceived us and treated us.

 

[deafskeptic]

And how would you address the socialization issues that go with home schooling.

What about communication needs of the deaf student in home schooling, given that most deaf children are born of hearing parents that never learn even rudimentary sign.

How would you address the needs of a deaf child to become familiar with deaf adults?

Hence why I don't think home schooling would have worked for me cuz my parents weren't very flexible regarding my needs.

 

[Passivist]

What's better then?

There is nothing better than putting deaf and hearing on an equal footing, both as children and as adults. We would then perhaps have less ya-boo politics and who is deaf, which is the best language, whatever... that drags the entire community into drawing lines in the sand.

There is no real proof a distinct deaf education has made deaf children more hearing aware, nor vice versa, so you have to teach them alongside each other, there is NO better awareness system. What feeds the dissent are two issues 'Cultural protection stances' and very poor access to integrational education. If we could concentrate on improving the access in mainstream, and then most importantly USING it, instead of adopting the approach We are deaf, you are hearing, the twain cannot meet, we can at best co-exist, then we get nowhere, because the stance is written in stone via separatism and validated by culture.. The mind-set is at fault on both sides of the fence.

Gally has had such bad press a lot deserved. It set itself up as a beacon, then let the flame die out and descend into factionalism. As far as main streaming goes, it's a NEW concept relatively, it is a new approach and alternative to putting all deaf people into one 'special needs' box, let's not make the mistake deaf schools are just there to promote culture, and never educating them to cope anywhere else without huge issue.. The fault was in streaming was undertaken without including the deaf community in how best to move forward and make it work, so the resultant failure of those who couldn't get with it, resulted in an ideology main streaming is wrong, and a new sector of deaf who feel let down..

I don't feel main streaming has yet been given a fair chance to work. As a society we are trying to remove barriers, remove systems that pigeon-hole one sector's lifestyle, to then pitch it against another's when difficulties arise. I am deaf I am not well educated, I cannot communicate much at all with hearing, so, the fault is mainstream, better all deaf together.. Too easy an answer.