How to Decide on Cochlear Implant Surgery for Children

[GrendelQ]

I don't understand why you are judging Jillio when she is giving her opinion ...(

I would very much appreciate her opinions, especially on the topic of her own experiences. What I object to very much, Bebonang, is the continuous stream of nastiness, insults and snark she inserts into any discussion where there is an opinion that differs: she has zero tolerance for diverse opinions and expresses that in a manner that would not be acceptable in real life situations and shouldn't be accepted in this forum.

I would LOVE to hear what she's tried with her son that worked, what she's done that didn't work, and would benefit from what she has learned. Same with FJ, Wee Beastie, Rick, Drew's Dad and the other parents of deaf kids on the board, regardless of the approaches they've taken. I love to read about how the choices we've made for and with our daughter have worked or not worked for others (ASL, bi-bi education, for example). I also like to read about other options I may not have considered or chosen (Cued speech, SEE, HAs) work or don't work and see if there are any learnings I can take from those situations.

But I don't read a whole lot of that when Jillio gets involved and inevitably goes on the attack. I see, in thread after thread, for the years that I've been on AllDeaf, a negative reaction to anything that represents a different opinion from hers. And a very mean approach to any other hearing parents on this board, regardless of their approaches. And a very condescending way of speaking on behalf of all deaf, as if she, as a hearing person, knows what's best for you, for the Deaf community, or for my daughter.

You may appreciate her comments, but you should know that she reflects very badly on the deaf community and her approach is what drives away so many deaf people from this board, including parents of children who might otherwise explore and then adopt an ASL approach based on a warm and welcoming entry level discussion in a place like this. One of the primary reasons I stick around after being repeatedly subjected to Jillio's rudeness: just in case someone who was in my shoes 3 years ago stumbles in looking to see if it might be possible to have both ASL and spoken language, they'll see a couple of examples of there being more than just one approach (such as CIs + AVT) and many different ways to make bilingual education work.

You bring up FJ: FJ could post that her daughter's eyes are green and Jillio would immediately attack her for being offensive to people with brown eyes or disparage her expertise in telling green from blue. It's a very bizarre and inhospitable climate for open discussion. Like trying to have an informed debate with a rude teenager who spouts out insults and rolls her eyes rather than reasonably put forward a position.

 

[AlleyCat]

Grendel is right. There has been repeated eye-rolling, sarcasm and the refusal to accept that other people have different points of view. It has detracted from this thread and so many others. Even though I am deaf and I'd love to offer my perspective, I have a hard time staying in these threads because of this. Enough is enough.

 

[Bottesini]

Grendel is right. There has been repeated eye-rolling, sarcasm and the refusal to accept that other people have different points of view. It has detracted from this thread and so many others. Even though I am deaf and I'd love to offer my perspective, I have a hard time staying in these threads because of this. Enough is enough.

I am strongly in agreement with this sentiment.

 

[Bebonang]

I would very much appreciate her opinions, especially on the topic of her own experiences. What I object to very much, Bebonang, is the continuous stream of nastiness, insults and snark she inserts into any discussion where there is an opinion that differs: she has zero tolerance for diverse opinions and expresses that in a manner that would not be acceptable in real life situations and shouldn't be accepted in this forum.

I would LOVE to hear what she's tried with her son that worked, what she's done that didn't work, and would benefit from what she has learned. Same with FJ, Wee Beastie, Rick, Drew's Dad and the other parents of deaf kids on the board, regardless of the approaches they've taken. I love to read about how the choices we've made for and with our daughter have worked or not worked for others (ASL, bi-bi education, for example). I also like to read about other options I may not have considered or chosen (Cued speech, SEE, HAs) work or don't work and see if there are any learnings I can take from those situations.

But I don't read a whole lot of that when Jillio gets involved and inevitably goes on the attack. I see, in thread after thread, for the years that I've been on AllDeaf, a negative reaction to anything that represents a different opinion from hers. And a very mean approach to any other hearing parents on this board, regardless of their approaches. And a very condescending way of speaking on behalf of all deaf, as if she, as a hearing person, knows what's best for you, for the Deaf community, or for my daughter.

You may appreciate her comments, but you should know that she reflects very badly on the deaf community and her approach is what drives away so many deaf people from this board, including parents of children who might otherwise explore and then adopt an ASL approach based on a warm and welcoming entry level discussion in a place like this. One of the primary reasons I stick around after being repeatedly subjected to Jillio's rudeness: just in case someone who was in my shoes 3 years ago stumbles in looking to see if it might be possible to have both ASL and spoken language, they'll see a couple of examples of there being more than just one approach (such as CIs + AVT) and many different ways to make bilingual education work.

You bring up FJ: FJ could post that her daughter's eyes are green and Jillio would immediately attack her for being offensive to people with brown eyes or disparage her expertise in telling green from blue. It's a very bizarre and inhospitable climate for open discussion. Like trying to have an informed debate with a rude teenager who spouts out insults and rolls her eyes rather than reasonably put forward a position.

Very interesting. I did not know Jillio's responses with the hearing parents were that bad and very insulting. I know Jillio is very outspoken and yes, she need to watch what she is saying and not put down on hearing parents.

But still it would be nice if hearing parents can listen to the deaf people about our deaf perspective which we have been trying for eons and it will go on for many more years. It just that hearing people, even hearing parents does not want to listen to our plight with dealing with the hearing world. Maybe that is why Jillio is mad. What I am saying is why go through the length of trying to make us hear whether we have CI or future stem cells to make us perfectly hearing? We need all the toolboxes (accommodations) for us to understand in the regular classroom or special education classrooms with no suffering and no waste of being delayed. ASL is not a waste language and we need it to communicate so that we can understand both in the deaf world and hearing world (ASL interpreters). We just want hearing people to accept us as deaf individuals. What is wrong with the word "acceptance" and why it is so hard for us to suffer this way if they don't accept us for being deaf?

 

[faire_jour]

Very interesting. I did not know Jillio's responses with the hearing parents were that bad and very insulting. I know Jillio is very outspoken and yes, she need to watch what she is saying and not put down on hearing parents.

But still it would be nice if hearing parents can listen to the deaf people about our deaf perspective which we have been trying for eons and it will go on for many more years. It just that hearing people, even hearing parents does not want to listen to our plight with dealing with the hearing world. Maybe that is why Jillio is mad. What I am saying is why go through the length of trying to make us hear whether we have CI or future stem cells to make us perfectly hearing? We need all the toolboxes (accommodations) for us to understand in the regular classroom or special education classrooms with no suffering and no waste of being delayed. ASL is not a waste language and we need it to communicate so that we can understand both in the deaf world and hearing world (ASL interpreters). We just want hearing people to accept us as deaf individuals. What is wrong with the word "acceptance" and why it is so hard for us to suffer this way if they don't accept us for being deaf?

But none of us have ever said that ASL is a "waste language" and there is a whole long thread about how we are not trying to make our kids hearing, or fix them, that we just want to give them all the tools they could need for the future.

I love hearing the Deaf perspective, and I try to share my perspective as a hearing parent. The problem is when Jillio starts picking posts apart and playing semantic games, and rolling eyes. Sometimes it feels like she just looks for something to disagree with in each individual post that some people make. I know that she has a lot to say about perspectives, but shouldn't she be giving her perspective as a hearing parent of a Deaf adult, not that of Deaf people? You, the Deaf community can tell us what you think and feel, not her.

 

[AlleyCat]

Very interesting. I did not know Jillio's responses with the hearing parents were that bad and very insulting. I know Jillio is very outspoken and yes, she need to watch what she is saying and not put down on hearing parents.

How can you not see that many of her posts are insulting? Just look at the post from 10:27 yesterday morning in direct reference to a hackey sack. We all know exactly who that was directed at. It was mean-spirited. And now these threads are derailed by this kind of response. I'm done with this discussion, I would like to see us move forward in a positive fashion and talk about issues that matter to us.

 

[A]

you mean to tell me that hearing parents can't have deaf prospective? That only deaf people think the way they think?

 

[jillio]

I guess you are, FJ And I think your level of involvement and care is most definitely an admirable thing, something I hope to emulate.

I'm sorry I'm so late responding to the CICircle Bat Signal -- hey, where are the other 2000 CICIRCLE members who were supposed to march in with pitchforks?

Seriously, Jillio, you seem to obsess that the CICircle Yahoo group has YOU on the agenda. You need to take your own medicine and get over yourself.

CICircle is a resource for information about pediatric CIs (from using snugfits and bike helmets to developing IEPs and finding schools) from those with experience, it's not an opinion board such as this. But really, why do you even care and continue to bring it up? Your snarky, uninformed, teenage-level eye-rolling is the not on the radar at the apparently scary CICircle you make so many comments about, so sleep easily.

Too bad what could have been an interesting discussion on this thread is yet again mired in your insults and attacks. You apparently need to keep up some quota of posts, but why don't you simply speak about what you know and have experienced as a hearing parent of your deaf child in a positive way and let that be the proof point rather than attacking and undercutting any differing opinion? Stop infantilizing everyone here and let us evaluate the different perspectives without you handing down Jillio Judgment in some self-appointed role you've taken on (telling people what threads and topics they should or shouldn't be participating in, is that really your responsibility? What a burden to bear).

No obsession. More delighted humor. But thanks for supporting my point.

 

[jillio]

I don't understand why you are judging Jillio when she is giving her opinion and discuss or debate whether you like it or not. She has a deaf son and she understand her son's deaf perspective. She has a right to be here as she is hearing. I just hope you are not like FJ every time she is so obsessed with her interest in her daughter to listen and hear like as if she is hearing. Now she is saying that her daughter is in the ASL setting which is good and claim that she spend thousand of dollars for all those stuff for her daughter. I am not sure where FJ is coming from with the obsession of CI a lot like asking question "Why?" or the answer "but things are different, she can hear and listen". I am trying to see her hearing perspective but that is not going to help her daughter less suffering. I hope her daughter can speak up and tell her how she feel if she had to struggle with listening. That is my concern. Don't blame Jillio as we all like her very much for her wonderful perspective in deafness and understanding our plight with the hearing world. That is all I am going to say. If you want to offend me, then go right ahead.

Thank you, Bebonang. The difference between myself and GrendelQ and Faire Jour is that I am here to support and uphold the deaf perspective and the deaf's right to be participating in any decisions made regarding the deaf. They are here to force the hearing perspective on the deaf.

 

[jillio]

Very interesting. I did not know Jillio's responses with the hearing parents were that bad and very insulting. I know Jillio is very outspoken and yes, she need to watch what she is saying and not put down on hearing parents.

But still it would be nice if hearing parents can listen to the deaf people about our deaf perspective which we have been trying for eons and it will go on for many more years. It just that hearing people, even hearing parents does not want to listen to our plight with dealing with the hearing world. Maybe that is why Jillio is mad. What I am saying is why go through the length of trying to make us hear whether we have CI or future stem cells to make us perfectly hearing? We need all the toolboxes (accommodations) for us to understand in the regular classroom or special education classrooms with no suffering and no waste of being delayed. ASL is not a waste language and we need it to communicate so that we can understand both in the deaf world and hearing world (ASL interpreters). We just want hearing people to accept us as deaf individuals. What is wrong with the word "acceptance" and why it is so hard for us to suffer this way if they don't accept us for being deaf?

I have posted what works for my son, and what has worked for thousands of other deaf children ad nauseum. Perhaps because you are so new to all of this you have missed all of that. I have posted personal experience, academic research in the field of deaf psychology and deaf education, I have posted expert opinion, I have posted comparative studies, and I have email articles, for free, to many members of this forum that they would have had to pay for otherwise. I have been in the field of deaf advocacy, and most particularly advocacy for deaf students, for over 20 years. And, quite frankly, I have run completely out of patience for those parents who counter all of the evidence with "But my child is different." I have completely run out of patience for molly coddling the parent who continues to express the same audist bull crap that has been spouted for decades. My concerns lie with the deaf children, and the negative ways these practices continue to affect them in the very same ways they have for decades. I am out of patience for the parent that puts all their hope for a different future for their deaf child in technological advances while their child continues to suffer the same negative academic, psychological, and social consequences that deaf children have suffered for years. Find that offensive? Soryy about that. I find the fact that children are continuing to suffer because albeit well meaning, but audist parents, create the situations where they do suffer and then want to whine about the deaf advocates picking on them.

A perfect example of your audist perspective is your claim that I do not well represent the deaf community. That is not your decision to make. You can say that from your hearing perspective I do not represent the deaf community well. But your hearing perspective is not my concern. The deaf perpsective is my concern. And you are unable to speak from that perpsective. In fact, it is presumptuous of you to do so, given that you fail to take the deaf perspective into account in anything you say.

If you find me so offensive,then perhaps it is because I am saying things that you need to hear. Things that frighten you because they are so opposite of everything you want to believe in order to assuage your own attitudes and behaviors. Try giving a little credence to the deaf perspective, try giving credence to what decades have shown to be beneficial, instead of consistently trying to prove it wrong and not applicable to "your child." Perhaps then you would not be so offended. In fact, you would probably become apologetic for the contributions to have made to keeping audism alive.

 

[jillio]

But none of us have ever said that ASL is a "waste language" and there is a whole long thread about how we are not trying to make our kids hearing, or fix them, that we just want to give them all the tools they could need for the future.

I love hearing the Deaf perspective, and I try to share my perspective as a hearing parent. The problem is when Jillio starts picking posts apart and playing semantic games, and rolling eyes. Sometimes it feels like she just looks for something to disagree with in each individual post that some people make. I know that she has a lot to say about perspectives, but shouldn't she be giving her perspective as a hearing parent of a Deaf adult, not that of Deaf people? You, the Deaf community can tell us what you think and feel, not her.

Your defensiveness arises because you cannot back off and look at anything from an objective perspective. You are too busy trying to defend your "hearing parent's perspective" to give credence to the deaf perspective. I am not the only one that has told you that. You have been told same by numerous deaf posters on this board. And yet, you continue with the same old, same old.

 

[jillio]

How can you not see that many of her posts are insulting? Just look at the post from 10:27 yesterday morning in direct reference to a hackey sack. We all know exactly who that was directed at. It was mean-spirited. And now these threads are derailed by this kind of response. I'm done with this discussion, I would like to see us move forward in a positive fashion and talk about issues that matter to us.

Perhaps you should go back and check the history on that one. It began in a discussion of accommodations, and the insults began, not from my side, but from one of the audists that infrequently pop up to share their audist views.

 

[jillio]

Very interesting. I did not know Jillio's responses with the hearing parents were that bad and very insulting. I know Jillio is very outspoken and yes, she need to watch what she is saying and not put down on hearing parents.

But still it would be nice if hearing parents can listen to the deaf people about our deaf perspective which we have been trying for eons and it will go on for many more years. It just that hearing people, even hearing parents does not want to listen to our plight with dealing with the hearing world. Maybe that is why Jillio is mad. What I am saying is why go through the length of trying to make us hear whether we have CI or future stem cells to make us perfectly hearing? We need all the toolboxes (accommodations) for us to understand in the regular classroom or special education classrooms with no suffering and no waste of being delayed. ASL is not a waste language and we need it to communicate so that we can understand both in the deaf world and hearing world (ASL interpreters). We just want hearing people to accept us as deaf individuals. What is wrong with the word "acceptance" and why it is so hard for us to suffer this way if they don't accept us for being deaf?

You hit the nail on the head, Bebonang. That is exactly why I am angry and have no patience for molly coddling. Children are continuing to suffer, and they suffer because parents spend more time trying to prove the deaf perspective wrong than they do listening to what the deaf are saying and giving it credence as it applies to deaf children.

 

[jillio]

you mean to tell me that hearing parents can't have deaf prospective? That only deaf people think the way they think?

Of course not. Hearing parents most certainly can develop a deaf perspective. However, it takes effort and a willingness to question their own hearing perspective. Some do that, some never do.

 

[Frisky Feline]

I can understand any hearing people wants to do the best thing for their kids by providing the kids some tools to hear something to fit into the majority of people with auditory. It's their choices. Sure, I have hearing family and so are my hearing children that i live in the hearing world. I can live with it. However, I admit that I do see lots of deaf culture/ASl changes a lot than years ago, more of less and less visual perception which I am sad, NOT because I am jealous of those who kids can hear with tools are not my point. I am more sad that I do see there are less and less beautiful visual perception because doctors corrected babies' identified attitudes into more of audority when they can use both speak and sign. I can see that there is a new culture in them in the future, that kind of culture is not mine. Deaf culture is mine means no sounds but beautiful visual perception becasue we are more comfortable at it.
Now I hope to see any deaf kids who are using ASL as much as they understand how important ASL is all about while they can speak or hear with the tools becuase it's their new culture to take care of ASL and "auditory" BOTH, not one of those communication tools.

I guess my post is not related with this thread. eh.

 

[jillio]

I can understand any hearing people wants to do the best thing for their kids by providing the kids some tools to hear something to fit into the majority of people with auditory. It's their choices. Sure, I have hearing family and so are my hearing children that i live in the hearing world. I can live with it. However, I admit that I do see lots of deaf culture/ASl changes a lot than years ago, more of less and less visual perception which I am sad, NOT because I am jealous of those who kids can hear with tools are not my point. I am more sad that I do see there are less and less beautiful visual perception because doctors corrected babies' identified attitudes into more of audority when they can use both speak and sign. I can see that there is a new culture in them in the future, that kind of culture is not mine. Deaf culture is mine means no sounds but beautiful visual perception becasue we are more comfortable at it.
Now I hope to see any deaf kids who are using ASL as much as they understand how important ASL is all about while they can speak or hear with the tools becuase it's their new culture to take care of ASL and "auditory" BOTH, not one of those communication tools.

I guess my post is not related with this thread. eh.

It is very much related. Not only am I concerned with the beauty of ASL, but the ways in which it allows the deaf child to acurrately perceive and explain, and understand the beauty of the whole world around them. Even with those deaf children who have developed good speech and use other tools to assist their hearing, ASL allows them to understand and talk about the world around them with a greater degree of thought and comprehension than can be achieved when the focus is on oral language primarily. It is a natural way for them to process the information around them and make that information useful to them. And what is the purpose of language? It is to allow us to comprehend and communicate about the world around us. If we focus on oral language too much for the deaf child, we make the priority the oral language alone. And then, we end up with kids that can speak well, but have no creative or connective thought related to what that language can do for them. We cause them to stall out at a level less than what they could achieve.

So, yes, your post is very much connected.

 

[GrendelQ]

I have posted what works for my son, and what has worked for thousands of other deaf children ad nauseum. Perhaps because you are so new to all of this you have missed all of that. I have posted personal experience, academic research in the field of deaf psychology and deaf education, I have posted expert opinion, I have posted comparative studies, and I have email articles, for free, to many members of this forum that they would have had to pay for otherwise. I have been in the field of deaf advocacy, and most particularly advocacy for deaf students, for over 20 years. And, quite frankly, I have run completely out of patience for those parents who counter all of the evidence with "But my child is different." I have completely run out of patience for molly coddling the parent who continues to express the same audist bull crap that has been spouted for decades. My concerns lie with the deaf children, and the negative ways these practices continue to affect them in the very same ways they have for decades. I am out of patience for the parent that puts all their hope for a different future for their deaf child in technological advances while their child continues to suffer the same negative academic, psychological, and social consequences that deaf children have suffered for years. Find that offensive? Soryy about that. I find the fact that children are continuing to suffer because albeit well meaning, but audist parents, create the situations where they do suffer and then want to whine about the deaf advocates picking on them.

A perfect example of your audist perspective is your claim that I do not well represent the deaf community. That is not your decision to make. You can say that from your hearing perspective I do not represent the deaf community well. But your hearing perspective is not my concern. The deaf perpsective is my concern. And you are unable to speak from that perpsective. In fact, it is presumptuous of you to do so, given that you fail to take the deaf perspective into account in anything you say.

If you find me so offensive,then perhaps it is because I am saying things that you need to hear. Things that frighten you because they are so opposite of everything you want to believe in order to assuage your own attitudes and behaviors. Try giving a little credence to the deaf perspective, try giving credence to what decades have shown to be beneficial, instead of consistently trying to prove it wrong and not applicable to "your child." Perhaps then you would not be so offended. In fact, you would probably become apologetic for the contributions to have made to keeping audism alive.

Again a thread deteriorates and becomes all about you Jillio, and your narrow 'my way or the highway' attitude, and not about the people it should be about: in this case the decision-making process around whether or not to implant a child.

Jillio, stop the wannabe stance: I'm coming from the deaf perspective just as much as you are. I have my deaf child's best interests at heart no less than you do. I'm trying to guide my child into a world where she will have every possible means of communication available, educating her in an ASL environment and in a bilingual school, and I'm listening to thoughtful Deaf people out there like Shel and A and so many others who have encountered obstacles and I'm making certain we don't step into the same roadblocks. All you really provide are insults and attacks that bury what could be wonderful insights and information. All you accomplish with your offensive manner is to foster this "us against them" perspective, rather than allowing other hearing parents just like yourself to stay here a while, discuss issues, understand perspectives, and learn as well as providing an opportunity to share what unique insights we might in this new day, new age have so it's not just a one way street.

Sure, slap me with the ugly audist label. I don't know whether you fear losing some weird status as the only hearing parent who 'understands' the deaf perspective or finding out that there might be multiple paths towards raising a happy, healthy and whole deaf child than the one you took. Multiple ways of empowering a deaf child. I can't see any other objective likely for why you continue to attack people in this way and try to manipulate some 'hearing vs. deaf ' thing here when we could be finding common ground. I know that the most effective means of bridging this gap between us is not such a direct confrontation as this, as you will only feel obliged to present a wall of posts in defense, but I have repeatedly tried to express how alienating your approach is before in gentler terms, and it's just not getting through.

My child IS different. Your child is different. I'm listening very carefully to my child. And not yours, nor FJs nor anyone else's model is going to be exactly the right path for Li-Li, but we can all learn from one another if we don't slam the door because of slight or even great differences.

If, as you say, you've lost patience with those who think their child is unique, take a vacation, don't take your frustrations out on me.

 

[jillio]

Again a thread deteriorates and becomes all about you Jillio, and your narrow 'my way or the highway' attitude, and not about the people it should be about: in this case the decision-making process around whether or not to implant a child.

Jillio, stop the wannabe stance: I'm coming from the deaf perspective just as much as you are. I have my deaf child's best interests at heart no less than you do. I'm trying to guide my child into a world where she will have every possible means of communication available, educating her in an ASL environment and in a bilingual school, and I'm listening to thoughtful Deaf people out there like Shel and A and so many others who have encountered obstacles and I'm making certain we don't step into the same roadblocks. All you really provide are insults and attacks that bury what could be wonderful insights and information. All you accomplish with your offensive manner is to foster this "us against them" perspective, rather than allowing other hearing parents just like yourself to stay here a while, discuss issues, understand perspectives, and learn as well as providing an opportunity to share what unique insights we might in this new day, new age have so it's not just a one way street.

Sure, slap me with the ugly audist label. I don't know whether you fear losing some weird status as the only hearing parent who 'understands' the deaf perspective or finding out that there might be multiple paths towards raising a happy, healthy and whole deaf child than the one you took. Multiple ways of empowering a deaf child. I can't see any other objective likely for why you continue to attack people in this way and try to manipulate some 'hearing vs. deaf ' thing here when we could be finding common ground. I know that the most effective means of bridging this gap between us is not such a direct confrontation as this, as you will only feel obliged to present a wall of posts in defense, but I have repeatedly tried to express how alienating your approach is before in gentler terms, and it's just not getting through.

My child IS different. Your child is different. I'm listening very carefully to my child. And not yours, nor FJs nor anyone else's model is going to be exactly the right path for Li-Li, but we can all learn from one another if we don't slam the door because of slight or even great differences.

If, as you say, you've lost patience with those who think their child is unique, take a vacation, don't take your frustrations out on me.

You really need to get a grip, GrendelQ. And no, my child is not different, nor is your child different, when it comes to the academic, psychological, and social effects suffered by children in an oral only environment. Nor are any of the deaf adults that try to relate their experiences so that you can learn from them different. The fact that you refuse to listen to them says volumes about what you believe regarding the experiences of the deaf, and the ways in which their stories have the capabilities to improve the lives of deaf children in the future.

Sorry, I don't take a vacation when it comes to deaf children. But, if you are so offended by the truth, then I suggest you take a vacation from reading my posts. Obviously, you have not reached a point in your life where you are open to learning anything new, anyway.

 

[shel90]

Out of curiousity ... so what? What's wrong with parents trying to achieve the best for their children? I have said many times in previous posts that I don't necessarily agree with the decisions my parents made for me, but they made those decisions on what they thought was best. And I turned out well, if I may say so. I do think that if I had deaf children of my own, however, I would make some decisions differently. Does that mean my parents made bad choices? No. It is all about decisions, involvement, and the deaf child. I know. I was one.

Yes, parents try to achieve the best for their child but when it comes to discounting deaf people's experiences and how the oral-only philosophy left many of us in extremely restricted environment, the tune changes. It feels like hearing people dont want to hear what we have to say when it comes to quality education for deaf children.

 

[shel90]

How can you not see that many of her posts are insulting? Just look at the post from 10:27 yesterday morning in direct reference to a hackey sack. We all know exactly who that was directed at. It was mean-spirited. And now these threads are derailed by this kind of response. I'm done with this discussion, I would like to see us move forward in a positive fashion and talk about issues that matter to us.

If it is not ok for Jillio to say stuff like that, then why is it ok for the others to say stuff like that to us? It goes both ways.